+5g Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) I found a cache and am wondering if rule #3 was violated? This is an ammo can placed in a bucket/drum below ground level but not covered with earth (see pic). Do you think this is defined as buried? Maybe they used their hands to move dirt around to place bucket? Not buried because it's not covered? Rule #3. Geocaches are never buried. If a shovel, trowel or other pointy object is used to dig or break ground, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not permitted. Edited August 24, 2011 by horseleach Quote Link to comment
+Frank Broughton Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) please stop! maybe make the same effort in creating some good logs for your finds. Edited August 24, 2011 by Frank Broughton Quote Link to comment
+Panther&Pine Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Which GC is this? Is it possible that the bucket (metal drum?) was in place before the cache placement? Is that sand? Quote Link to comment
GOF and Bacall Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 please stop! Please stop what? Quote Link to comment
+Frank Broughton Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 please stop! Please stop what? at red lights... Quote Link to comment
+Panther&Pine Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 please stop! Please stop what? In the Name of Love! Quote Link to comment
+5g Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 please stop! maybe make the same effort in creating some good logs for your finds. Thanks Quote Link to comment
GOF and Bacall Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Sorry Frank. I like MooseJawSpruce's response better. Quote Link to comment
+5g Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 Which GC is this? Is it possible that the bucket (metal drum?) was in place before the cache placement? Is that sand? GC - I DO like this cache and am not looking to get it removed, but am genuinely interested on intent of rule #3 for placing similar cache. It is a metal drum. Possible but not probable on placement. Desert dirt. Quote Link to comment
GOF and Bacall Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 please stop! maybe make the same effort in creating some good logs for your finds. Thanks If you have concerns you should follow up on them. There are reasons why the guidelines exist. Most are in response to issues that geocaching has run into in the past. In a case where you are unsure I recommend that you email the reviewer with the GC# of the cache and the details of your concerns. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 please stop! maybe make the same effort in creating some good logs for your finds. I wish I had seen what was there before the edit, 'cause maybe it made sense. Quote Link to comment
GOF and Bacall Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Which GC is this? Is it possible that the bucket (metal drum?) was in place before the cache placement? Is that sand? GC - I DO like this cache and am not looking to get it removed, but am genuinely interested on intent of rule #3 for placing similar cache. It is a metal drum. Possible but not probable on placement. Desert dirt. The intent is to keep land manages from banning geocaching because they don't want people digging holes in the lands they manage. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I'm sure that would be considered buried by most land managers that might stumble across it. I think that what MJB is hinting at is that there is sometimes a little leniency given to covering something up with sand, but that would be speaking of a cache on a sandy beach, I think. Yes, it could be a pre-existing hole, or even a pre-existing bucket, but it sure gives every impression of being buried, and I think that what the guideline is attempting to prevent. Quote Link to comment
+5g Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 please stop! maybe make the same effort in creating some good logs for your finds. Thanks If you have concerns you should follow up on them. There are reasons why the guidelines exist. Most are in response to issues that geocaching has run into in the past. In a case where you are unsure I recommend that you email the reviewer with the GC# of the cache and the details of your concerns. Which GC is this? Is it possible that the bucket (metal drum?) was in place before the cache placement? Is that sand? GC - I DO like this cache and am not looking to get it removed, but am genuinely interested on intent of rule #3 for placing similar cache. It is a metal drum. Possible but not probable on placement. Desert dirt. The intent is to keep land manages from banning geocaching because they don't want people digging holes in the lands they manage. Thanks for your answers. Quote Link to comment
+Panther&Pine Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 [*]GC - I DO like this cache and am not looking to get it removed, but am genuinely interested on intent of rule #3 for placing similar cache. [*]It is a metal drum. Possible but not probable on placement. [*]Desert dirt. The intent is to keep land manages from banning geocaching because they don't want people digging holes in the lands they manage. Also remember that a style of hide you've already found/heard of is no promise that a similar one will be published. Quote Link to comment
+5g Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 I'm sure that would be considered buried by most land managers that might stumble across it. I think that what MJB is hinting at is that there is sometimes a little leniency given to covering something up with sand, but that would be speaking of a cache on a sandy beach, I think. Yes, it could be a pre-existing hole, or even a pre-existing bucket, but it sure gives every impression of being buried, and I think that what the guideline is attempting to prevent. Gotcha. Thank you. Quote Link to comment
+Frank Broughton Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Sorry Frank. I like MooseJawSpruce's response better. lol - how about stop and go shop! yikes... Quote Link to comment
+Frank Broughton Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 please stop! maybe make the same effort in creating some good logs for your finds. I wish I had seen what was there before the edit, 'cause maybe it made sense. naw just more non sense - just for you buddy ole pal.... there feel that tickle, I just rubbed behind your ears,,,,, Really though there is code in it for a solution for a real problem. Quote Link to comment
GOF and Bacall Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Sorry Frank. I like MooseJawSpruce's response better. lol - how about stop and go shop! yikes... Never, ever, say anything like that around Bacall! She doesn't need any more incentive to shop. Quote Link to comment
+Frank Broughton Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 horseleach - I see you are a new cacher, sorry for not taking serious your question. The cache looks like a great one, and that a replacement for what seemed like a popular (also quality) night hide (not too many of those around). In the future it may be best to not post pictures of it online but kindly contact the owner first as to the rational behind the bucket. As to what I said about logging. Please do not follow the norm today with all the acronym logging that is going on. A nice little write up of your adventure in finding the cache is the way that it used to be done and that is much appreciated by those that own the caches. A simple TFTC is kinda like an insult to the cache owner. Much information on making quality logs can be found here in the forum. Again sorry for being a wise guy to you.... Quote Link to comment
+5g Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) horseleach - I see you are a new cacher, sorry for not taking serious your question. The cache looks like a great one, and that a replacement for what seemed like a popular (also quality) night hide (not too many of those around). In the future it may be best to not post pictures of it online but kindly contact the owner first as to the rational behind the bucket. As to what I said about logging. Please do not follow the norm today with all the acronym logging that is going on. A nice little write up of your adventure in finding the cache is the way that it used to be done and that is much appreciated by those that own the caches. A simple TFTC is kinda like an insult to the cache owner. Much information on making quality logs can be found here in the forum. Again sorry for being a wise guy to you.... Thank you for your feedback. I will change my ways of logging before it becomes habit. I had the impression that acronym logging was the norm after reading the book titled "It's a Treasure Hunt". I read it from cover to cover before I started geocaching Edited August 24, 2011 by horseleach Quote Link to comment
+ventura_kids Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 OK, I'll say it. Stop telling on people. Some guidelines have changed over time, and others are stretched a bit. If those situations are brought up, then the geocaches get archived. Some great caches have been archived due to this 'buried' guideline, and the 'pointy tool' guideline. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the guidelines. It just happens. Quote Link to comment
+Panther&Pine Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 OK, I'll say it. Stop telling on people. Some guidelines have changed over time, and others are stretched a bit. If those situations are brought up, then the geocaches get archived. Some great caches have been archived due to this 'buried' guideline, and the 'pointy tool' guideline. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the guidelines. It just happens. This is a fairly new cache, and the OP is fairly new. I don't see a problem with them asking for opinions. They probably didn't know that the forum regulars are a touch nosey (else why would we cache) and tend to have better than average internet skills. Quote Link to comment
+Panther&Pine Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Thank you for your feedback. I will change my ways of logging before it becomes habit. I had the impression that acronym logging was the norm after reading the book titled "It's a Treasure Hunt". I read it from cover to cover before I started geocaching I had the same impression when I started. I'm still not overly verbose in my logs, a sentence or two. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 On the surface that would certainly be a guideline violation. I've reported similar caches (complete with pictures) and every one has been archived post haste. Quote Link to comment
+ventura_kids Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I see tons of logs that are being sent from phones...that don't have any log at all....blank....just blank. I also see tons of those acronym logs...it's a preference. Play the game any way you want. Don't take anything you read in the forums as the 'one way' to do things. Have fun out there! Quote Link to comment
+Panther&Pine Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 On the surface that would certainly be a guideline violation. I've reported similar caches (complete with pictures) and every one has been archived post haste. That was my guess as well, but the more information the better. Quote Link to comment
+tozainamboku Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I found a similar hide a few weeks ago. The metal drum appeared to have been there a while. In this part of the country you can often find artifacts partly buried in the ground where the state or conservation agency has acquired previously private lands or where the land was used for cattle ranching. Sometimes metal drums were partly buried and used as quenchers for the animals. Sometimes you find a metal wheel rim or part of some other structure that looks like this as well. The fact that the barrel appears to be covered by brambles indicates that it probably was there when the cacher hid the ammo can. If this is the case, this cache is compliant with the guidelines. Quote Link to comment
+5g Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 OK, I'll say it. Stop telling on people. Some guidelines have changed over time, and others are stretched a bit. If those situations are brought up, then the geocaches get archived. Some great caches have been archived due to this 'buried' guideline, and the 'pointy tool' guideline. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the guidelines. It just happens. I tend to lose body language and verbal intonation cues on the forums. "Telling on people" wasn't my intent. I do appreciate your answer. Quote Link to comment
+Frank Broughton Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) I see tons of logs that are being sent from phones...that don't have any log at all....blank....just blank. I also see tons of those acronym logs...it's a preference. Play the game any way you want. Don't take anything you read in the forums as the 'one way' to do things. Have fun out there! Stop...... It is a very poor preference. Edited August 24, 2011 by Frank Broughton Quote Link to comment
+caro y alf Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 To me, if I don't have to literally dig (either with my hands or otherwise) it is fair game even if it is below ground level as the one you are showing us. I think the intent of the rule is to avoid damaging the area, and so we don't have to bring shovels. Personally I have found a couple that have actually required me to dig on loose dirt. I did not enjoy it. But I wouldn't object lifting a small log, a rock or a coconut shelf to grab a cache that is located in a preexisting cavity on the ground. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) To me, if I don't have to literally dig (either with my hands or otherwise) it is fair game even if it is below ground level as the one you are showing us. I think the intent of the rule is to avoid damaging the area, and so we don't have to bring shovels. Personally I have found a couple that have actually required me to dig on loose dirt. I did not enjoy it. But I wouldn't object lifting a small log, a rock or a coconut shelf to grab a cache that is located in a preexisting cavity on the ground. The intent of the guideline is to placate land managers who generally do not like unauthorized digging on the lands they manage. If the cache owner digs to hid the cache, even if the lid is exposed, he's still digging. That is a no no. You are not doing the sport any favors by ignoring blatant guideline violations. As we've learned in the past all it takes is one inappropriately placed cache to jeopardize the sport for all in a park system. Edited August 24, 2011 by briansnat Quote Link to comment
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