Challenge caches.

[+Avernar]

That is true. But why mark it more difficult just because you can and in a arbitrary way? I would say with tou the date restriction it would average out the same given some of the combinations are rare to be placed.

So how would you make a D/T Fizzy more difficult/different? Double, Triple, etc. Fizzies are just as arbitrary. You're just picking an arbitrary number to be the multiplier.

[+Keith Watson]

That is true. But why mark it more difficult just because you can and in a arbitrary way? I would say with tou the date restriction it would average out the same given some of the combinations are rare to be placed.

So how would you make a D/T Fizzy more difficult/different? Double, Triple, etc.

 

Exactly. From what I have seen, that seems to be the progression people have been taken once they complete the first one. The beauty is that you can go at your own pace. If you want to rush the clock, have fun.

[+Keith Watson]

Well, I don't think that it's averaging itself out, but I do think that making it become easier over time makes more sense than the other way around. Because that way, completing the challenge sooner would be more honorable as it was harder (statistically, anyway) than later on. With a "date published" restriction, it's the other way around: the longer you wait, the harder it gets. The FTF would have had it easiest, as they had the most caches available to them. At least in my view that doesn't make sense, but that's just me.

 

I agree with the inverse of the difficulty. The earlier finders probable did have it easier.

[+lamoracke]

I think some folks put a date range on it for some valid reasons. There is a challenge run in Oregon that has about 20 caches. All on the same dirt road. Attending 10 events challenge? 1 difficulty, 4.5 terrain. That is a tough fizzy grid. 5/4.5, 4.5/5, etc etc are on this run. Its quite obvious to me this challenge trail has two purposes...to list challenge caches and to fill up a fizzy grid without doing the hard terrains.

 

Now, if the CO of say the Washington Fizzy knows all the caches in Washington and figures most are legit, then saying Washington only up to x date means everyone will have to earn their fizzy challenge vs just going to this town in Oregon or some other cache series like it.

 

I do not know all the ins and outs of all the challenges and why their rules are why they are, but sometimes CO make rules to try to make folks earn the challenge and not allow a way to circumvent the spirit of the challenge by some trail in a place she/he has never looked into.

 

I like my Island Challenge much better in that regard. You find one on the island, you get credit. Simple.

[+Avernar]

So how would you make a D/T Fizzy more difficult/different? Double, Triple, etc. Fizzies are just as arbitrary.

Exactly. From what I have seen, that seems to be the progression people have been taken once they complete the first one. The beauty is that you can go at your own pace. If you want to rush the clock, have fun.

Please don't quote only half of my sentences, it changes the meaning too much. The number of each D/T is just as arbitrary. It basically says how many times you have to complete the exact same challenge over and over again.

 

It really stops being a challenge after a point and more of just a task. Building one or two cars is a hobby, building 3 or more is a job.

[+Keith Watson]

So how would you make a D/T Fizzy more difficult/different? Double, Triple, etc. Fizzies are just as arbitrary.

Exactly. From what I have seen, that seems to be the progression people have been taken once they complete the first one. The beauty is that you can go at your own pace. If you want to rush the clock, have fun.

Please don't quote only half of my sentences, it changes the meaning too much. The number of each D/T is just as arbitrary. It basically says how many times you have to complete the exact same challenge over and over again.

 

It really stops being a challenge after a point and more of just a task. Building one or two cars is a hobby, building 3 or more is a job.

 

No, I think I got the quote right. From what I understand, you are getting bored of caching the way others do and want something more difficult. I am quite sure seeing how many time you can get each combination will fill that very well. With your own analogy if you are bored of building cars, try building them when the parts are not as available. I am quite sure a triple fizzy is not going to be as easy as a single so of you go and have fun.

 

You could always try to see how many you can find in a day and then beat that.

 

Question for you. If you go out and spend 8 hours on a single cache and then someone else goes out and does it in half the time and half the effort does that bother you?

Edited August 17, 2011 by Keith Watson

[+carlst]

challenge caches seem ok but not for me i cache to walk and this works well i am not a number cacher so this all seems a little uninteresting the only reason i log is so i know what i have done a where i have been. logging a find because i have completed a challenge based on what i have already found i dont get it.

sounds more like a face book game to me interesting for a short time

[+Avernar]

No, I think I got the quote right.

No, you did not: Fallacy of quoting out of context

 

I was saying that the multiplier is no different than a date restriction. They both extend the basic fizzy to make it more challenging. They are both arbitrary.

 

From what I understand, you are getting bored of caching the way others do and want something more difficult.

The way others do? I don't see a Triple Fizzy Challenge anywhere near me.

 

But this is my main point. Why should everyone cache the same way? Some people like park and grabs. Some like long hikes. Some like easy caches, some like hard caches. Some like a variety.

 

The reason that I don't like your suggestion to limit fizzies to a single style is that you're now telling others how they must cache. If other people want to do challenges with date restrictions, let them. I doesn't affect which challenges you decide to do.

 

I am quite sure seeing how many time you can get each combination will fill that very well. With your own analogy if you are bored of building cars, try building them when the parts are not as available. I am quite sure a triple fizzy is not going to be as easy as a single so of you go and have fun.

No it won't. While finding those caches will be fun, keeping track of how many times I completed the grid won't be. It stops being a challenge and turns into a checklist.

 

I am modifying my vehicle and was waiting for backordered parts. Not fun at all. It was very frustrating and annoying. That's not a challenge, it's just waiting. Building a classic car where parts are no longer manufacured and hard to find is a challenge.

 

You could always try to see how many you can find in a day and then beat that.

I did that one or two times. And it is fun. Doing that every month however would make me sick of it.

 

Question for you. If you go out and spend 8 hours on a single cache and then someone else goes out and does it in half the time and half the effort does that bother you?

Nope. Why should it? If I had fun doing it then that's all that matters.

 

Same with Challenge Caches. I don't care if someone completes a challenge easier that I did. Did I have fun? Yes. Therefore it was a good challenge cache.

 

That's one of the reasons I'm not doing the Iron Man Challenge. I wouldn't have fun doing it.

Edited August 17, 2011 by Avernar

[+Keith Watson]

No, I think I got the quote right.

No, you did not: Fallacy of quoting out of context

 

I'm pretty sure I grabbed two sentences, no part sentences. It is the pot calling the kettle black at this point.

 

No, I think I got the quote right.

No, you did not: Fallacy of quoting out of context

 

I was saying that the multiplier is no different than a date restriction. They both extend the basic fizzy to make it more challenging. They are both arbitrary.

 

From what I understand, you are getting bored of caching the way others do and want something more difficult.

I don't see a Triple Fizzy Challenge anywhere near me.

 

Then that is a good challenge for you. That should keep you from getting bored.

 

The reason that I don't like your suggestion to limit fizzies to a single style is that you're now telling others how they must cache.

 

Using and ALR that restricts who can find a cache is doing the same thing. You can't have it both ways.

 

Question for you. If you go out and spend 8 hours on a single cache and then someone else goes out and does it in half the time and half the effort does that bother you?

Nope. Why should it? If I had fun doing it then that's all that matters.

 

Same with Challenge Caches. I don't care if someone completes a challenge easier that I did.

 

Then do you have a problem with ALR's that restrict who can find a cache based on when they started caching being removed? After all, if you have fun then that's all that matters, correct?

Edited August 17, 2011 by Keith Watson

[+Avernar]

I'm pretty sure I grabbed two sentences, no part sentences.

No, the period following the "etc." was not the end of the sentence but part of the etc. I can see how you thought that was the end of the sentence. No big deal as I clarified it later.

 

Then that is a good challenge for you. That should keep you from getting bored.

But I'd do those caches anyway so the challenge would be just a checklist. More of an afterthought. The awesome northern trip I did with three other cachers would not have happened if I was just doing the grid over again.

 

Using and ALR that restricts who can find a cache is doing the same thing. You can't have it both ways.

Hence the suggestion to remove the ALR.

 

Then do you have a problem with ALR's that restrict who can find a cache based on when they started caching being removed?

I don't have a problem with the ALR being removed. I have a problem with that rule being "banned" from the challenge portion.

 

Finding and logging the cache and completing a challenge are two separate things. They are currently tied to each other however. I don't have a problem with that but others do.

 

After all, if you have fun then that's all that matter, correct?

Here you are talking that out of context. That was in response to someone else doing something faster than me. All that matters in THAT situation is that I had fun.

 

I'm not advocating having fun by reducing someone else's fun. Quite the opposite. But I don't like it when people use it as an excuse. Here's an example:

 

There are 10 lakes in an area but only one has fish in it. The fishermen are having fun at that one lake. The power boating guys want to use all 10 lakes thus scaring the fish away in that one lake. They can use the other 9 lakes and everyone can have fun but use the excuse "Well, not being able to go in the 10th lake is reducing our fun, that's unacceptable!" No, that's selfish and not very nice.

 

But there's always compromise. If the fish are only on one side of the lake, nothing is wrong with the boating guys keeping to the other side. That's why removing the ALR and giving an alternate log type for "Challenge Completed" is a good compromise.

 

The "I/others can't complete this challenge so it shouldn't exist" is the same thing. There are other challenges that those people can have fun with, let the people who can do that challenge have fun with that one.

[+Keith Watson]

If winning wasn't important then they would keep score. I think we have all heard that. I have heard so many times in the forums now that basically states "everyone is free to cache the way they like as long as it does not affect the way want". People don't need someone to tell them how to cache the way they want. Just go out and do it it the way you want. It looks to me that one up-men-ship, I'm better than you, and I can make you do what ever I want attitudes have once again worked their way into geocaching and will hopefully be dealt with accordingly.

 

Going to put my focus into the new challenges now and see what comes out of that.

[+dfx]

The reason that I don't like your suggestion to limit fizzies to a single style is that you're now telling others how they must cache.

 

I thought there was only one "style" of fizzy challenge: the fizzy challenge. Fill your 81 grid and find at least one cache of the types given. That's the fizzy challenge. Everything else isn't.

[+t4e]

challenge caches seem ok but not for me i cache to walk and this works well i am not a number cacher so this all seems a little uninteresting the only reason i log is so i know what i have done a where i have been. logging a find because i have completed a challenge based on what i have already found i dont get it.

sounds more like a face book game to me interesting for a short time

 

there are many challenges out there that are fun to complete

they all require you to go find caches, which you can chose based on your purpose for caching, walking, it may just take a bit more planning to find the ones that qualify and will fulfill your purpose for caching

one doesn't necessarily need to complete a challenge, but i found that some will give you inspiration to do/get something different, will allow you to discover some areas that you perhaps overlooked before, or caches that you might enjoy, and all that while just performing a little research into what it will take to qualify for that challenge

 

don't take this a me trying to convince you to do challenges, its just a different angle of looking at them

i have quite a few that are collecting dust in my ignore list

Edited August 17, 2011 by t4e

[+Avernar]

I thought there was only one "style" of fizzy challenge: the fizzy challenge. Fill your 81 grid and find at least one cache of the types given. That's the fizzy challenge. Everything else isn't.

Sorry, but no. The original Fizzy challenge does indeed have icon requirements and date restrictions: Well Rounded Cacher (The Fizzy Challenge)

 

So technically that is the only "style" of fizzy challenge and everything else (including a straight 81 D/T grid) is not.

[+Avernar]

there are many challenges out there that are fun to complete

they all require you to go find caches, which you can chose based on your purpose for caching, walking, it may just take a bit more planning to find the ones that qualify and will fulfill your purpose for caching

one doesn't necessarily need to complete a challenge, but i found that some will give you inspiration to do/get something different, will allow you to discover some areas that you perhaps overlooked before, or caches that you might enjoy, and all that while just performing a little research into what it will take to qualify for that challenge

Yup!

 

That's also why personal challenges aren't quite the same as challenge caches. Personal challenges (or goals) tend to be within a person's comfort zone.

[+dfx]

I thought there was only one "style" of fizzy challenge: the fizzy challenge. Fill your 81 grid and find at least one cache of the types given. That's the fizzy challenge. Everything else isn't.

Sorry, but no. The original Fizzy challenge does indeed have icon requirements and date restrictions: Well Rounded Cacher (The Fizzy Challenge)

 

So technically that is the only "style" of fizzy challenge and everything else (including a straight 81 D/T grid) is not.

 

Yeah, that's the one I meant and was looking at. Somehow I left out the date restriction - blame it on the flu.

[+Tequila]

I thought there was only one "style" of fizzy challenge: the fizzy challenge. Fill your 81 grid and find at least one cache of the types given. That's the fizzy challenge. Everything else isn't.

Sorry, but no. The original Fizzy challenge does indeed have icon requirements and date restrictions: Well Rounded Cacher (The Fizzy Challenge)

 

So technically that is the only "style" of fizzy challenge and everything else (including a straight 81 D/T grid) is not.

 

 

That is correct. That is why my Fizzy Challenge, Tequila:81 Proof, which I think was the first challenge cache in Canada, has the date restriction and the icon requirement. I copied it from Kentucky who copied it from California.

 

.

[+Keith Watson]

ZcwdaCewdabwcowwtocwifawwPrahfwldmwPwvln vrnGblawwWhslslawlw1adc.

 

This will make sense later, trust me.

[+northernpenguin]

ZcwdaCewdabwcowwtocwifawwPrahfwldmwPwvln vrnGblawwWhslslawlw1adc.

 

This will make sense later, trust me.

 

You got a cat?

[+cx1]

Here are some various challenge cache ideas based on the 81 D/T grid:

 

"The quick and dirty 81" find 81 caches of any type that each have a different difficulty and terrain rating.

 

"The five State 81" find 81 caches of any type that each have a different difficulty and terrain rating and a maximum of 20 can come from any single State.

 

"The 81 county trip" find 81 caches of any type that each have a different difficulty and terrain rating and each must be found in a unique county.

 

"The Charter 81" find 81 caches of any type that each have a different difficulty and terrain rating that were placed by Charter members of geocaching.

 

"The Old School 81" find 81 caches of any type that each have a different difficulty and terrain rating and were placed prior to January 1, 2005.

 

"The new decade 81" find 81 caches of any type that each have a different difficulty and terrain rating and were placed since December 31, 2009.

 

Now Keith does not seem to have a problem with "The quick and dirty 81". But since the other 5 ideas require a different and possibly more difficult set of 81 caches to complete he seems to want those other 5 to all to be changed so they are exactly the same as "The quick and dirty 81".

 

I do not think splitting the challenge part from the cache and final location part of a challenge cache would address Keith's apparent issues with some challenge caches. It seems if the challenge is too difficult for Keith to complete then he wants the difficulty to be lowered regardless if there is a cache attached to it or not.

[+Keith Watson]

Now Keith does not seem to have a problem with "The quick and dirty 81". But since the other 5 ideas require a different and possibly more difficult set of 81 caches to complete he seems to want those other 5 to all to be changed so they are exactly the same as "The quick and dirty 81".

 

I do not think splitting the challenge part from the cache and final location part of a challenge cache would address Keith's apparent issues with some challenge caches. It seems if the challenge is too difficult for Keith to complete then he wants the difficulty to be lowered regardless if there is a cache attached to it or not.

 

Not true. I only have a problem with the ones with a date restriction and it has nothing to do with being too difficult for me to complete. It has to do with math and nothing else as I have explained many times. I have only ever found one challenge cache and that was because it was an FTF opportunity. I do qualify for another one close by but have never bothered to go find it. I have no interest in expending large amounts of time an money to complete a small handful of caches when I can go out and find more in the limited time I have these days to find caches as my finds will attest to.

[+Motorcycledude]

Someone please tell me that this is a joke or that I have misunderstood something...

 

I have years of experience administrating web based games, communities etc. and I really don't want to join the kind of people who go "the is the worst implementation ever" as soon as something in the site they have gotten used to is changed.

 

But this? Uploading a picture of myself kissing a toy frog in my sofa equals finding a cache now?

 

Sorry, but whoever got this idea should be fired.

[+Avernar]

But this? Uploading a picture of myself kissing a toy frog in my sofa equals finding a cache now?

Wrong thread. This is about Challenge Caches not the new Challenges.

[+Motorcycledude]

But this? Uploading a picture of myself kissing a toy frog in my sofa equals finding a cache now?

Wrong thread. This is about Challenge Caches not the new Challenges.

 

My bad. Still valid though, but elsewhere. Thx.

[+northernpenguin]

I have no interest in expending large amounts of time an money to complete a small handful of caches when I can go out and find more in the limited time I have these days to find caches as my finds will attest to.

 

Some people prefer to cache for the numbers. Others prefer a challenge, be that a challenge cache or a hike in the woods.

 

We are back to the "get rid of that cache because I don't like it" mentality vs just going to get the caches you do like. This isn't Pokemon... You don't have to find them all.

[+Keith Watson]

I have no interest in expending large amounts of time an money to complete a small handful of caches when I can go out and find more in the limited time I have these days to find caches as my finds will attest to.

 

Some people prefer to cache for the numbers. Others prefer a challenge, be that a challenge cache or a hike in the woods.

 

We are back to the "get rid of that cache because I don't like it" mentality vs just going to get the caches you do like. This isn't Pokemon... You don't have to find them all.

 

And who is saying "get rid of that cache because I don't like it"? Personally I don't care how other people hunt for caches. I am however trying to figure out how you think we are back to the "get rid of that cache because I don't like it" mentality. Has someone demanded that caches be archived that I am not aware of? A little confused here.

[+northernpenguin]

I have no interest in expending large amounts of time an money to complete a small handful of caches when I can go out and find more in the limited time I have these days to find caches as my finds will attest to.

 

Some people prefer to cache for the numbers. Others prefer a challenge, be that a challenge cache or a hike in the woods.

 

We are back to the "get rid of that cache because I don't like it" mentality vs just going to get the caches you do like. This isn't Pokemon... You don't have to find them all.

 

And who is saying "get rid of that cache because I don't like it"? Personally I don't care how other people hunt for caches. I am however trying to figure out how you think we are back to the "get rid of that cache because I don't like it" mentality. Has someone demanded that caches be archived that I am not aware of? A little confused here.

 

Walks like a Duck, Talks like a duck ....

 

Sorry. That's the tone I picked up in the posts above. If I'm wrong, well then I guess I'm wrong.

 

I read your comments on the date restricted challenges above, and it sure seemed like you had a problem with them. You don't have to explicitly demand the caches be archived to make that point be heard. Complaining about their very existence does lead one to perceive you would rather they did not exist.

[+Keith Watson]

Walks like a Duck, Talks like a duck ....

 

Sorry. That's the tone I picked up in the posts above. If I'm wrong, well then I guess I'm wrong.

 

I read your comments on the date restricted challenges above, and it sure seemed like you had a problem with them. You don't have to explicitly demand the caches be archived to make that point be heard. Complaining about their very existence does lead one to perceive you would rather they did not exist.

 

Yes I don't like the date restriction for the reasons I have provided. Does that mean I want them archived? No. Never said it and never said anything close to that. I never complained about their very existence. I am afraid your assumptions are wrong and we all know what happens when you assume. Or do I need to explain that to you as well so there is no confusion? Perhaps post a link to an online dictionary. I'll see if I can find one with pictures. Not sure what tone you picked up on but I think you need to go back and do some reading as you have not understood what I have been posting. Maybe it is my fault and I should be using shorter sentences. I to tend to write long sentences.

[+Avernar]

Yes I don't like the date restriction for the reasons I have provided. Does that mean I want them archived? No.

But you do want the guidelines changed so the date restrictions will be removed, right?

[+geocat_]

deleted

Edited August 18, 2011 by geocating

[+northernpenguin]

Walks like a Duck, Talks like a duck ....

 

Sorry. That's the tone I picked up in the posts above. If I'm wrong, well then I guess I'm wrong.

 

I read your comments on the date restricted challenges above, and it sure seemed like you had a problem with them. You don't have to explicitly demand the caches be archived to make that point be heard. Complaining about their very existence does lead one to perceive you would rather they did not exist.

 

Yes I don't like the date restriction for the reasons I have provided. Does that mean I want them archived? No. Never said it and never said anything close to that. I never complained about their very existence. I am afraid your assumptions are wrong and we all know what happens when you assume. Or do I need to explain that to you as well so there is no confusion? Perhaps post a link to an online dictionary. I'll see if I can find one with pictures. Not sure what tone you picked up on but I think you need to go back and do some reading as you have not understood what I have been posting. Maybe it is my fault and I should be using shorter sentences. I to tend to write long sentences.

 

[knowschad]

But this? Uploading a picture of myself kissing a toy frog in my sofa equals finding a cache now?

Wrong thread. This is about Challenge Caches not the new Challenges.

 

My bad. Still valid though, but elsewhere. Thx.

 

I know... its sure a Challenge to keep them straight, isn't it?

[knowschad]

I have no interest in expending large amounts of time an money to complete a small handful of caches when I can go out and find more in the limited time I have these days to find caches as my finds will attest to.

 

Some people prefer to cache for the numbers. Others prefer a challenge, be that a challenge cache or a hike in the woods.

 

We are back to the "get rid of that cache because I don't like it" mentality vs just going to get the caches you do like. This isn't Pokemon... You don't have to find them all.

 

And who is saying "get rid of that cache because I don't like it"? Personally I don't care how other people hunt for caches. I am however trying to figure out how you think we are back to the "get rid of that cache because I don't like it" mentality. Has someone demanded that caches be archived that I am not aware of? A little confused here.

 

I don't like it, and I'm not afraid to stand up and say that I wish they'd get rid of it! There was a time when I was proud to tell people (muggles, friends) that I was a geocacher, and suggest that they view the website to see what its all about. Now, I'd rather they don't. I don't wish to be associated with such silliness, although I am proud of my geocaching. This new addition dumbs it all down.

[+northernpenguin]

I have no interest in expending large amounts of time an money to complete a small handful of caches when I can go out and find more in the limited time I have these days to find caches as my finds will attest to.

 

Some people prefer to cache for the numbers. Others prefer a challenge, be that a challenge cache or a hike in the woods.

 

We are back to the "get rid of that cache because I don't like it" mentality vs just going to get the caches you do like. This isn't Pokemon... You don't have to find them all.

 

And who is saying "get rid of that cache because I don't like it"? Personally I don't care how other people hunt for caches. I am however trying to figure out how you think we are back to the "get rid of that cache because I don't like it" mentality. Has someone demanded that caches be archived that I am not aware of? A little confused here.

 

I don't like it, and I'm not afraid to stand up and say that I wish they'd get rid of it! There was a time when I was proud to tell people (muggles, friends) that I was a geocacher, and suggest that they view the website to see what its all about. Now, I'd rather they don't. I don't wish to be associated with such silliness, although I am proud of my geocaching. This new addition dumbs it all down.

 

Wrong thread. This is about challenge caches, like the California Fizzy Challenge .... not the new "Challenges" that Groundspeak launched today.

[+Avernar]

I know... its sure a Challenge to keep them straight, isn't it?

 

I don't like it, and I'm not afraid to stand up and say that I wish they'd get rid of it! There was a time when I was proud to tell people (muggles, friends) that I was a geocacher, and suggest that they view the website to see what its all about. Now, I'd rather they don't. I don't wish to be associated with such silliness, although I am proud of my geocaching. This new addition dumbs it all down.

Wrong thread. This is about challenge caches, like the California Fizzy Challenge .... not the new "Challenges" that Groundspeak launched today.

[knowschad]

I know... its sure a Challenge to keep them straight, isn't it?

 

I don't like it, and I'm not afraid to stand up and say that I wish they'd get rid of it! There was a time when I was proud to tell people (muggles, friends) that I was a geocacher, and suggest that they view the website to see what its all about. Now, I'd rather they don't. I don't wish to be associated with such silliness, although I am proud of my geocaching. This new addition dumbs it all down.

Wrong thread. This is about challenge caches, like the California Fizzy Challenge .... not the new "Challenges" that Groundspeak launched today.

 

My point, exactly.

[+tozainamboku]

There was a time when I was proud to tell people (muggles, friends) that I was a geocacher, and suggest that they view the website to see what its all about. Now, I'd rather they don't. I don't wish to be associated with such silliness, although I am proud of my geocaching. This new addition dumbs it all down.

Me too, but I don't anymore because they might think I'm a transgressively agonistic deviant.

[+Frank Broughton]

I have no interest in expending large amounts of time an money to complete a small handful of caches when I can go out and find more in the limited time I have these days to find caches as my finds will attest to.

 

Some people prefer to cache for the numbers. Others prefer a challenge, be that a challenge cache or a hike in the woods.

 

We are back to the "get rid of that cache because I don't like it" mentality vs just going to get the caches you do like. This isn't Pokemon... You don't have to find them all.

 

And who is saying "get rid of that cache because I don't like it"? Personally I don't care how other people hunt for caches. I am however trying to figure out how you think we are back to the "get rid of that cache because I don't like it" mentality. Has someone demanded that caches be archived that I am not aware of? A little confused here.

 

I don't like it, and I'm not afraid to stand up and say that I wish they'd get rid of it! There was a time when I was proud to tell people (muggles, friends) that I was a geocacher, and suggest that they view the website to see what its all about. Now, I'd rather they don't. I don't wish to be associated with such silliness, although I am proud of my geocaching. This new addition dumbs it all down.

 

Can we be honest, your nonstop posting adds to the silliness. Do you talk in your sleep.... serious? 8-)

[+Keith Watson]

There was a time when I was proud to tell people (muggles, friends) that I was a geocacher, and suggest that they view the website to see what its all about. Now, I'd rather they don't. I don't wish to be associated with such silliness, although I am proud of my geocaching. This new addition dumbs it all down.

Me too, but I don't anymore because they might think I'm a transgressively agonistic deviant.

 

That is an interesting look at it.

[+Keith Watson]

Yes I don't like the date restriction for the reasons I have provided. Does that mean I want them archived? No.

But you do want the guidelines changed so the date restrictions will be removed, right?

 

Now there is a leading question. I can see the dots on that one a mile away. Let me guess. If I say yes then someone claims that will alter any challenge caches with a date restrictions and thus effectively archiving it because it is no longer the same cache. Or something similar. I assume if I answer no there will also be some kind of argument against me.

 

Let me make it clear to stop the assertions I want caches archived by use of imaginative dot connecting.

 

I do not want caches archived.

[+cx1]

 

I do not want caches archived.

 

No, you want them changed to criteria that you feel is 'fair'. You even went so far as to 'challenge' (that was the word you used btw) the challenge cache owners to remove these 'unfair' restrictions on which caches should be allowed to count for their challenge caches. You have archived some of your own challenge caches because of this supposed 'unfairness' and are wanting other cache owners to follow your example.

So it is clearly more then you are simply ignoring these 'unfair' caches.

Yes date restrictions can make challenge caches harder to complete as time goes on. That is part of the reason of putting the restriction there to begin with. It encourages people to get working on it before it become more difficult. But if the restriction does not make them impossible to complete then they should be allowed to stand in their current form.

[+Keith Watson]

 

I do not want caches archived.

 

No, you want them changed to criteria that you feel is 'fair'. You even went so far as to 'challenge' (that was the word you used btw) the challenge cache owners to remove these 'unfair' restrictions on which caches should be allowed to count for their challenge caches. You have archived some of your own challenge caches because of this supposed 'unfairness' and are wanting other cache owners to follow your example.

So it is clearly more then you are simply ignoring these 'unfair' caches.

Yes date restrictions can make challenge caches harder to complete as time goes on. That is part of the reason of putting the restriction there to begin with. It encourages people to get working on it before it become more difficult. But if the restriction does not make them impossible to complete then they should be allowed to stand in their current form.

 

Sorry, that would be some more inaccurate dot connecting. Nice try though.

[+Avernar]

Now there is a leading question. I can see the dots on that one a mile away. Let me guess. If I say yes then someone claims that will alter any challenge caches with a date restrictions and thus effectively archiving it because it is no longer the same cache. Or something similar. I assume if I answer no there will also be some kind of argument against me.

It was not my intention to make a leading question. I'm just trying to figure out what exactly are you arguing for. If it's just to say you don't like it that could have been done in a single post yet here were are still debating this.

 

The guidelines could be changed while grandfathering the old challenge caches so you're concern about this leading to you wanting existing caches archived is unfounded. You already stated you don't so we're going to take that as a fact.

 

If you answer no then we'd really like to here what you really want in regards to challenge caches. Argument against you? Only if you're arguing for the sake of arguing because then you're just wasting my time.

 

I do not want caches archived.

You don't want to do challenge caches.

 

You don't want to see the existing ones archived.

 

We think you want the guidelines changed based on your previous posts where you suggest the restrictions should be removed but you won't confirm or deny that for fear of some imagined reprisal.

 

Every time someone thinks they now your position and states it you say "Nope, that's not it. Guess again". And then you wonder why we don't understand what you're posting.

 

Seriously, other than you not liking that restriction what are you trying to accomplish here? If you choose not to answer this question then I say this debate is over.

[+Keith Watson]

Now there is a leading question. I can see the dots on that one a mile away. Let me guess. If I say yes then someone claims that will alter any challenge caches with a date restrictions and thus effectively archiving it because it is no longer the same cache. Or something similar. I assume if I answer no there will also be some kind of argument against me.

It was not my intention to make a leading question. I'm just trying to figure out what exactly are you arguing for. If it's just to say you don't like it that could have been done in a single post yet here were are still debating this.

 

The guidelines could be changed while grandfathering the old challenge caches so you're concern about this leading to you wanting existing caches archived is unfounded. You already stated you don't so we're going to take that as a fact.

 

If you answer no then we'd really like to here what you really want in regards to challenge caches. Argument against you? Only if you're arguing for the sake of arguing because then you're just wasting my time.

 

I do not want caches archived.

You don't want to do challenge caches.

 

You don't want to see the existing ones archived.

 

We think you want the guidelines changed based on your previous posts where you suggest the restrictions should be removed but you won't confirm or deny that for fear of some imagined reprisal.

 

Every time someone thinks they now your position and states it you say "Nope, that's not it. Guess again". And then you wonder why we don't understand what you're posting.

 

Seriously, other than you not liking that restriction what are you trying to accomplish here? If you choose not to answer this question then I say this debate is over.

 

Wow so many misses there. I think you need to go back and re-read my posts. This is a forum where people can ask questions and put forth their own opinions or suggestions. Think what ever you want. Nothing says I have to accomplish anything. It not supposed to be an exchange of ideas not a competition to prove who is right and who is wrong.

 

I don't think I suggested for people to guess my view. As far as "fear of some imagined reprisal" I think you just answered that. For wasting your time, you can save some of that time by sticking to the subject and not making claims of statements I didn't make in this forum.

 

Questioned has been answered and I choose not to repeat myself yet again and have it dissected.

 

Can we stop the pettiness here and get back to the original subject? If you have a personal issue with me answers, please take it off-line and don't clutter up the forums with "he said, she said". I am asking nicely.

Edited August 19, 2011 by Keith Watson