Logging guideline

[+terratin]

Sudden slew of non-answers and the earlier discussion in Is it a waste of time or common courtesy? got me thinking about when/how to log an earthcache.

 

I was pretty sure somewhere in the guidelines it says you can log an EC immediately as found and have to send in the answers to questions within a reasonable timeframe. But i've been searching for that and can't find it anymore or did i make that 'rule' up myself?

 

As far as i'm concerned i don't care if people first log a find and then send answers or the other way around; eitherway i have to keep track of the logs and corresponding answers. Moreover i find it rather annoying when an EC owners 'demands' an email with answers before you are 'allowed' to log a find. As we like to log caches in order of finding them, we log a find and send the answers just before or right after posting that log. As for posting a note instead of a found, as CO you still need to keep track of the notes to make sure it won't get changed into an 'illegitimate' find at a later date, which to me seems even more effort than keeping track of find and answer pairs.

 

Anyway, I'm curious what the official guideline on logging earthcaches is, if there is any.

 

Mr. Terratin

[+cincol]

I agree with you on this one. I also log and then send my e-mail. At the end of the day this is essentially a self regulated game that we play and everyone plays it for different reasons and different ways. As you said you like to log your finds in a certain sequence - so do I. I have a TB that goes with me to every cache and a EC Geocoin that visits every EC with me. I like to keep the dates and mileages as accurate as possible - at all times.

 

As for my EC's - I don't mind which sequence the finders do it. Log then e-mail or e-mail then log. As far as I am concerned that is THEIR choice and they can do it their way. I will NOT prescibe to them how they should do it.

 

My 2c worth.

[+me N u]

We try and log our visit at the same time as we send the answers - if we have been on holiday or it is a few days later we just date our log as the day we actually visited.

 

Some earthcaches require research for the answers and we will not log until we think we have them.

[cezanne]

Anyway, I'm curious what the official guideline on logging earthcaches is, if there is any.

 

Mr. Terratin

 

No guideline (at least not with respect to what is to found as guidelines on earthcache.org which is perhaps not that surprising as they are referred to a submittal guidelines), but it is part of the FAQ on earthcache.org (interestingly the text on the faq refers back to the guidelines implicitely even though the guidelines do not contain information on the logging process).

I am citing the relevant part from there. I hope this helps you.

 

As an EarthCache owner, can I use an “auto-response” e-mail account or a third-party website to check logging task answers and provide people with permission to post their logs to my EarthCaches?

 

We appreciate that you are attempting to make the logging process more efficient, however, the use of “auto-response” e-mails and third-party websites is strongly discouraged, for two main reasons:

 

1. People do not need to wait for permission to log your EarthCache. Requiring someone to wait is not

 

supported by the EarthCache guidelines. People should send their logging task answers to you, then log your EarthCache. When you review their logging task answers, if there is a problem, you should contact them to resolve it. If there is no problem, then their log simply stands.

2. The types of questions/answers used by “auto-response” e-mails and websites are too limiting and usually do not provide a strong educational experience, which is a vital part of EarthCaching. Logging tasks that ask for highly-specific, generally short answers, such as “15 meters” or “brown”, do not meet the educational goals of EarthCaching, and do not allow for enough flexibility or interpretation.

 

Furthermore, the proper review of logging tasks is considered one of the basic maintenance duties that must be performed by EarthCache owners. Because no physical container must be maintained, it is expected that EarthCache owners take the time to review logging submissions on their own, without automated aids.

 

Although there have been EarthCaches published in the past that use auto-response e-mails, this does not set a precedent for future EarthCaches, and does not require reviewers to publish additional caches that use auto-responders.

 

 

Personally, I think it is quite unfortunate to distribute important information about Earthcaches over so many different locations (guidelines, knowledge book and faqs on earthcache.org,

guidelines and knowledge book on gc.com). For the German translation the situation is even more complex. (There exists a translation of the guidelines, but not of the rest which is hardly known.) Almost all Earthcache in my region talks about having to wait for log permission and many even mention that they will delete logs without explicit permission.

So not even logging a find after having sent the answers and being sure that they are correct (I have never done an EC where I was not sure that my answers were correct) is ok for these cache owners (because as for the photo guideline they are ignorant of the current version of the guidelines/faq/knowledge book). Until I recently came across some debate about autoresponders, it has also been unknown to me that it is not conforming to the guidelines to have cachers wait for a log permission (even though I am regularly following this forum).

 

Moving over the submission process to gc.com has brought many advantages, but also had some disadvantages.

 

 

Cezanne

Edited July 20, 2011 by cezanne

[cezanne]

Sorry - double posting removed.Cannot delete it.

Edited July 20, 2011 by cezanne

[+terratin]

No guideline (at least not with respect to what is to found as guidelines on earthcache.org which is perhaps not that surprising as they are referred to a submittal guidelines), but it is part of the FAQ on earthcache.org (interestingly the text on the faq refers back to the guidelines implicitely even though the guidelines do not contain information on the logging process).

I am citing the relevant part from there. I hope this helps you.

 

1. People do not need to wait for permission to log your EarthCache. Requiring someone to wait is not supported by the EarthCache guidelines. People should send their logging task answers to you, then log your EarthCache. When you review their logging task answers, if there is a problem, you should contact them to resolve it. If there is no problem, then their log simply stands.

Yes, that's what i sort of remembered, thanks.

 

As for my EC's - I don't mind which sequence the finders do it. Log then e-mail or e-mail then log. As far as I am concerned that is THEIR choice and they can do it their way. I will NOT prescibe to them how they should do it.

Their choice indeed, the only 'requirement' when it comes to first logging and then sending the mail is 'within a reasonable time frame'. And given what i've read in other threads, the month or so we use seems pretty lenient.

 

Mr. Terratin

[+Lostby7]

...the only 'requirement' when it comes to first logging and then sending the mail is 'within a reasonable time frame'. And given what i've read in other threads, the month or so we use seems pretty lenient.

 

Mr. Terratin

In my experience, if the logging process is not completed in a week it ain't gonna be. A month is very generous. There is no rule that I read that says we as owners need to send all the follow-up emails either. Those are just a nicety that many of us choose to extend...

[+terratin]

...the only 'requirement' when it comes to first logging and then sending the mail is 'within a reasonable time frame'. And given what i've read in other threads, the month or so we use seems pretty lenient.

 

Mr. Terratin

In my experience, if the logging process is not completed in a week it ain't gonna be. A month is very generous. There is no rule that I read that says we as owners need to send all the follow-up emails either. Those are just a nicety that many of us choose to extend...

True, it sounds pretty long and maybe is too long, but it's also a time frame we are comfortable with: One or two weeks after a found log we send a reminder indicating the questions really have to be answered. One week or two weeks depends on if the logger likely is on a vacation and also on our own swiftness; we don't start a timer when a new log arrives If there's no answers or any response whatsoever after another two/three weeks we delete the log and send a second mail explaining why and inviting the cacher to send the answers and relog the EC as found. Et voila, a month has passed...

 

However, upon reconsidering i have to agree you're right and maybe we should move on to the second part (delete the log) sooner. If there's no response to the reminder within a few days it's probaly unlikely there will be a response at all.

 

Anyway, my question about the guidelines is answered, so this thread can be closed.

 

Thanks

 

Mr. Terratin