+TheEbreys Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 (edited) Hi everyone, I'm pretty sure this is my first post to the forum, so I should start with a couple of points I guess: 1. Sorry if this post is in the wrong forum. It's an idea for a UK cache series, so I figured this would be okay. If it's not, I'm happy to be slapped about it. 2. Hello! I'm Carl. My wife, Susie, and I have been caching since 2003, though not profusely. We've found 148 caches in that time (told you it wasn't profusely) and have enjoyed almost all of them. :-) Right, so my idea... There's a big push on at the moment to get AEDs (Automatic External Defibrillators) placed in cabinets all around the country. These are hugely useful things when someone has a cardiac arrest*. If you can get an AED on someone within 4 minutes of them stopping breathing, you can make their chances of survival anything up to 40%. Every minute that passes, their odds drop by roughly 10%. AEDs are programmed to be completely safe and are suitable for anyone to "have a go". They talk you through how to use them, and they will only shock if there's a shockable heart rhythm detected. So with that in mind, here's my idea: to create a series of caches near to AED cabinets. That way people can learn the locations of various AEDs via geocaching. Genius, or ridiculous? Cheers, Carl * Strictly speaking it's not cardiac arrest. It's ventricular fibrillation, but unless you had an AED with a visible trace or a 12-lead ECG on the person, you wouldn't know**. ** Or at least, that's how I understand it. People with proper medical training should feel free to correct me (because apart from anything else, I'd like to learn). Edited to change "ventricular defibrillation" to "ventricular fibrillation". Because fibrillation is why we want to *de*fibrillate... Edited July 4, 2011 by TheEbreys Quote Link to comment
+MartyBartfast Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I expect AEDs are being placed in very high muggle areas (whats the point in placing one where there are very few people?) such as train stations, shopping centres etc., so I would think that if it was close enough to the AED to have an association then it's going to be difficult to get permission and will lead to lots of encounters with the Police or private security. If it's far enough away to be in a quiet spot then I can't see that the association with the AED would be clear. I don't think this will fly - sorry. Quote Link to comment
+Bear and Ragged Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Gut feeling? No. Given it's for First Aid, we (cachers) shouldn't be encouraging people to 'hang around' or 'mess with' the cabinets. OK, I know it's locked, and you have to be talking to the control to be able to open the box... But, we shouldn't be encouraging others to 'mess with' I just KNOW someone will be tempted to stick a cache ON the cabinet. *Shakes head* Quote Link to comment
+TheEbreys Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 I expect AEDs are being placed in very high muggle areas (whats the point in placing one where there are very few people?) such as train stations, shopping centres etc., so I would think that if it was close enough to the AED to have an association then it's going to be difficult to get permission and will lead to lots of encounters with the Police or private security. If it's far enough away to be in a quiet spot then I can't see that the association with the AED would be clear. I don't think this will fly - sorry. An excellent point. I was thinking about magnetic micros on the cabinets themselves, but you're quite right, it'll never work. Ah well, onwards! :-) Carl Quote Link to comment
+TheEbreys Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 I just KNOW someone will be tempted to stick a cache ON the cabinet. *Shakes head* *Shuffles feet, leaves quietly.* Quote Link to comment
+rhonddaroamers Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 don't leave just yet TheEbreys why not make them virtual then peeps could still go and look at these cabinets so as to familiarise them self's just in case they ever had to use one Quote Link to comment
+The Blorenges Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 don't leave just yet TheEbreys why not make them virtual then peeps could still go and look at these cabinets so as to familiarise them self's just in case they ever had to use one You can no longer create Virtual caches on this site... but what might work is to create simple off-set multis, if the cabinets have some sort of letters/numbers on them - Use them to give co-ords for the cache which could be hidden some distance away. MrsB Quote Link to comment
+ivanidea Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Why not have a Travel Bug which wants to visit AED areas? This way, you can educate cachers, perhaps with links to appropriate web sites. Although the TB probably won't get to visit many sites, at least you can have the feeling of doing your bit to raise awareness of AEDs. Quote Link to comment
+MartyBartfast Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 You can no longer create Virtual caches on this site... But they're working on bringing them back, and soon. Quote from Jeremy: We continue to work on the project, but unfortunately will be unable to launch something until late June or early July. I'll update this if anything changes. We'll be incorporating the concept into our August 20 Block Party in Seattle, so early August is the absolute latest that we'll have something live. Jeremy Jeremy Admin Quote Link to comment
+The Blorenges Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 You can no longer create Virtual caches on this site... But they're working on bringing them back, and soon. Quote from Jeremy: We continue to work on the project, but unfortunately will be unable to launch something until late June or early July. I'll update this if anything changes. We'll be incorporating the concept into our August 20 Block Party in Seattle, so early August is the absolute latest that we'll have something live. Jeremy Jeremy Admin Yes, indeed. It'll be interesting to see what form the New Virtuals take. MrsB Quote Link to comment
+TheEbreys Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Ooh great. Lots of good ideas here. I like the idea of using information on the cabinets to solve multi-cache clues. Each cabinet has a unique reference number (that you give to ambulance control so they can tell you the code to unlock it) so that's definitely doable. Hmmmmmmmmm. Thanks for the suggestions! Carl Quote Link to comment
+Graculus Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Time for a reviewer to spoil the fun Just a point to be aware of. If the AED machines are provided or funded by businesses or charities or are located at commercial premises then these can't be mentioned on the cache page. Charity or agendas or commercial content is not allowed under the guidelines. Similarly links to websites about AED's may also contravene the guidelines. Geocaching is intended to be a light and enjoyable family-friendly hobby, not a platform for an agenda If you are thinking of going ahead with the idea (the multi using the AED's as clues sounds good) then you are welcome to email me a planned cache page description for 'pre-review' to make sure all is well. I'd not want you to create 20 cache pages and submit them only to have your local reviewer send them all back to you. Chris Graculus Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk Geocaching.com Knowledge Books Quote Link to comment
+MartyBartfast Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) Re: the OP, you could also go with this idea on Waymarking.com Re: ... or are located at commercial premises then these can't be mentioned on the cache page. Would that include, in this case, mentioning that the defibrilator was for example at a train/tube station, or an airport? (all owned or operated by commercial enterprises). Edited July 5, 2011 by MartyBartfast Quote Link to comment
+Fianccetto Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) Re: the OP, you could also go with this idea on Waymarking.com Re: ... or are located at commercial premises then these can't be mentioned on the cache page. Would that include, in this case, mentioning that the defibrilator was for example at a train/tube station, or an airport? (all owned or operated by commercial enterprises). I was going to suggest just that. Waymarking doesn't seem to have taken off in the UK as much as I expected (from my cursory look around the website) and there is a lot of opportunity to expand what is there and start up new categories. It also has the added benefit of being a bit more accessible to any internet user than geocaching. You could also add general information about them, where to get training on how they should be used, and so on. You could start off the idea as a Waymarking project to get as many of these into the category and known whereabouts (perhaps geocachers could help with sending you coordinates) and then when you have a enough to go on, or when virtuals become allowed again, get an AED virtuals or a multi series going. (You'd have to decide what questions to ask about the AEDs to get the virtual and we don't know how long it will be until they're back, or what format they will take). Perhaps micro caches would work, but instead of being placed on the AED box, they could be hidden within site of it - across the road; in the car park. etc. )Or, having reread Graculus' advice, a multi would be best!) As long as the rail provider, or the AED provider isn't mentioned, it isn't commercial. Of course you can't hide a physical cache on the platform. The only other problem I can see is it could clash with the sidetracked series and so would be too close to place another cache in a lot of stations. So maybe a travelling TB could tick these ones off with a smiley. Or as Graculus suggests, the multi idea with the AEDs as clues. (I'd take him up on the offer of the free advice It's an interesting idea and I hope it takes off. I've not come across geocaches being used as a way to help with public health and safety on a national scale, and it might start other ideas. edit: after rereading some other posts. Edited July 5, 2011 by Fianccetto Quote Link to comment
+Graculus Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Re: the OP, you could also go with this idea on Waymarking.com Re: ... or are located at commercial premises then these can't be mentioned on the cache page. Would that include, in this case, mentioning that the defibrilator was for example at a train/tube station, or an airport? (all owned or operated by commercial enterprises). By commercial I mean saying it's "outside Starbucks coffee shop" for example. You could just say it's in the high street. If it is in a railway station then just say that. Nothing commercial in 'Slough Railway station' but "at Great Western trains station in Slough" is commercial. Hope this helps. Chris Graculus Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk Geocaching.com Knowledge Books Quote Link to comment
+TheEbreys Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Thanks again for the input, it's all great advice. I'd definitely take you up on the offer of a pre-review, Graculus, thanks. I wasn't intending to mention any company/charity names, so no worries there. As for keeping it family-friendly and light, whenever my kids ask me about things like AEDs (or the various other bits of kit I have at home) I just say that they're what daddy uses to make poorly people better. I briefly looked at Waymarking a little while ago, but I didn't really get it. I think I'll have to take another look. Definitely some food for thought here. Excellent stuff. :-) Cheers, Carl Quote Link to comment
+Happy Humphrey Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Sounds like an ideal Waymark category, if it doesn't exist already. Paramedic Stations is the closest category I can see after a quick check. Waymarking is partly virtual cache, partly locationless (category=locationless). But it's ideal for collections of items like this. Look at the incredibly popular Victorian Post Box category for example. Or the even more popular trigpoints - now coming up to being logged 4000 times. Quote Link to comment
+Bear and Ragged Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) Waymarking Forums (Sign in with you caching name and password) They are friendly and are willing to discuss ideas, and are happy to talk over wording for category's. Edited July 5, 2011 by Bear and Ragged Quote Link to comment
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