Seaway Geotrail or Allegheny Geotrail?

[+AngelMay3]

Hello everyone!

 

We will be in the general area for GeoWoodstock. We are really interested in doing both the Seaway Geotrail AND the Allegheny Geotrail. However, we only have time for one or the other :-( I am looking for suggestions about which would be the better option.

 

We live in South Georgia, so this is probably the only time we will make it to the area, so we want to make the most of it.

 

We will already be spending a couple days in the Niagara area, so that doesn't need to factor into the decision. We enjoy lighthouses and have never seen the Great Lakes, but we also love the mountains. The catch is, we've been to mountains before, but never the Great Lakes.

 

Oh...what a difficult decision. Any suggestions or guidance from anyone familiar with either trail is greatly appreciated :-)

 

Thanks!

 

AngelMay3

Angel & David Rowland

Matthew 5:14-16

[+bernsa]

I have done both and I would rank both very high in terms of quality, perhaps giving the edge to the Seaway Trail.

 

I found the Seaway Trail caches were in terrific locations and were fairly solid in quality, without being ridiculously difficult. If you're doing it for the coins, I think the Seaway Trails are among the best I own, not that the AGT coins aren't great either.

 

Consider also that the AGT is likely to be hit extremely hard for GW9. Passport demand has been through the roof according to my informal discussions with the Oil Region Alliance. Right now AGT is viable (I cannot speak to ST's viability at the moment).

 

Last night, I wrote up a lengthy review of AGT for my two affiliated caching organizations - It can be found here:

 

Allegheny Geotrail (Review) - on NoVAGo.org

 

If I were to choose, I'd go ST over AGT, but recognize that post-GW9 the AGT coins may be done for (This is my own personal opinion).

[+yawppy]

Great write up Bersna! I am one of the GS9 folk heading in via RI, hoping to do the complete trail. Figure I'll have the Summer off and have already requested my passport, been getting the GSAK loaded and exploring the parking locations.

 

I will do the Allgeny, about a week prior to the GS9, and then may do the Seaway on the way home... a big maybe.. as fuel prices lay heavy for me as I can not imagine doing both with 4-6 gallon gas.

 

I have to say that I think the Seaway will be more historical, and scenic in nature and the Falls used to be in my "backyard" as I hail from MI. So hopefully the coins there will last till another day, even if not would make for a great roadtrip!

 

I read your write up and you mention ANOTHER geotrail?

 

Got me to wondering.. how many of these geotrails are there, In RI there are nothing like them, I love GC's, and so would love to hear of more on these geotrails!

[+bernsa]

I read your write up and you mention ANOTHER geotrail?

 

The Enchanted Mountains Geotrail.

That's located in Cattaraugus County, NY Just north of McKean County, Pennsylvania.

 

Overall I did not find that one as satisfing as a series, although individually the caches are pretty nice, just not in the context for a tourism directed geotrail. There is a coin that you can get, but it is not trackable as well as wooden nickles for each cache you find. All of those can be redeemed through the mail or the county's website or in person. It is implemented as a series of keywords in which you must find each and every cache (31 at the moment - although normally its 32) to get the coin. That's where the geotrail sort of fails, as some of the caches are extrememly difficult - 3 in particular are somewhat notoriously so. I'm not knocking those 3 caches - they are actually great caches in a stand-alone context, but are inappropriate to a geotrail where the county told me they had expectations of caches falling within 2/2 guidelines. As a whole the trail AVERAGES at 2/2 but I would give at least one cache in the series 4/5 ratings and another 3/4 ratings. I shared my feedback with the county, and hopefully some changes will be made to make the series more appealing to a broader audience of cachers, in particular to relax the number of caches required, however don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen as again - that's my personal opinion.

 

Many of the cachers who helped set up the AGT also set up caches for this series as well. The Phantastic Phils puzzle in Punxsutawney is recreated in Olean as the Woodland in the City cache. I believe most, if not all, are ammo cans. Overall, it has a similar feel to AGT though the prizes are inferior and the requirements are an order of magnitude more difficult. That series took approximately 3-4 days to complete due to the higher terrain of many of the caches in the series.

 

I hope to write up a longer review about it when I get another burst of writers energy.

[+AngelMay3]

Thank you so much for both of your input! We are completely unfamiliar with the area and are going at it blindly. Since this is our summer vacation, we do want to see a variety of vacation type locations. Unless I hear something to really convince us otherwise, the Seaway Trail has won this debate...at least for us. We will probably try to pick up at least one of the AGT coins still...just to say we have it. I also contacted another cacher from the area that has done both trails and he suggested the Seaway Trail for many of the same reasons. Perhaps I will meet y'all at GeoWoodstock this summer! It will be our first and we are very excited about coming to the area!

[+Running Crazy]

Have not done the SWT but have two coins from the AGT...they are impressive! I wish I had known of the AGT at its inception I may have more, hope to maybe get two more counties when we head to GWS.

[+SudsFamily]

We just did 8 counties this past weekend and we had a great time. I did many hours of planning, mapping and weeding through the caches from home before we went, drew out routes and wrote directions long hand as well as downloading pocket queries. We cache using smart phones for the most part but we also had 3 GPS® with us also for when our phones let us down. In the Eastern counties we frequently lost phone signal.

 

We had planned to do 25 caches the first day, just a little bit of a stretch for us but we thought it was do-able. Hah. We had no idea about how much mileage a winding road adds. We got a flat tire the first day out which cost us about two hours and we managed to do 9 caches in 15 hours (including 90 minutes each way to our "centrally located" hotel).

 

Day two we were more realistic and hoped to get 10-12 caches. We were able to wrap up Elk, complete Cameron and pick up the coin, then did Potter, and one cache in McKean for a total of 14 caches on Day 2...woohoo!!

 

Day 3 we finished McKean but on our last cache in the county we hit a truck swallowing pothole and did serious damage, flattening wheel bearing and snapping off a piece of the caliper. We were several miles back on a forest road and then when we got back to a paved road we were 30 miles from a town. We limped into town praying out brakes would not fail on the way down a mountain. Fortunately there was one repair shop open in town and they were great. 2 hours later we were back on the trail and finished 3 additonal caches before heading to the hotel, for a total of 14 caches and 4 counties.

 

At this point we decided to add a day to our vacation and try to accomplish a few more counties; Day 4 we finished Clarion, Forest and Warren and did one cache in Vanango, for 16 caches. These counties were much easier because the caches we chose were grouped closer together and/or all long a major route so we had few miles between them.

 

On the way home yesterday we finished Jefferson for a grand total of 8 counties.

 

I think we will go back up later this month to wrap up Venango and Crawford. We only have one coin since we cached primarily over the week end and there are only a few places to pick up coins.

 

Despite the frustrations we had a ball doing this trail and saw some of the most beautiful countryside. This area is a water lovers paradise, with so many rivers, streams and waterfalls. Its a shame that the trail will be shutting down but I am glad that we had the opportunity to enjoy it.

Edited May 3, 2011 by SudsFamily

[+emtfire10]

If you are going to be in the Niagara area for a few days, it would more feasible to do the SWGT. Both are nice programs though. My wife & I finished the Erie setion of the SWGT & there was only 1 cache that we were very dissapointed with, everything else was completely awesome!!

Hello everyone!

 

We will be in the general area for GeoWoodstock. We are really interested in doing both the Seaway Geotrail AND the Allegheny Geotrail. However, we only have time for one or the other :-( I am looking for suggestions about which would be the better option.

 

We live in South Georgia, so this is probably the only time we will make it to the area, so we want to make the most of it.

 

We will already be spending a couple days in the Niagara area, so that doesn't need to factor into the decision. We enjoy lighthouses and have never seen the Great Lakes, but we also love the mountains. The catch is, we've been to mountains before, but never the Great Lakes.

 

Oh...what a difficult decision. Any suggestions or guidance from anyone familiar with either trail is greatly appreciated :-)

 

Thanks!

 

AngelMay3

Angel & David Rowland

Matthew 5:14-16

[+briansnat]

I've done a few of the seaway caches and was impressed. Quality containers and historic or otherwise interesting spots. I assume most of the rest are as well thought out as the ones I did.

[+nittanycopa]

We've completed Venango and Crawford so far and enjoyed those two counties. 11 caches in one day, saved one for the day after. We did notice, though, the terrain rating was pretty exaggerated on many of the caches and some were located on private property "with permission" - kinda meh on the private property thing, to be honest.

 

For reference, we're located in the Allentown/Bethlehem area, so completing the remainder of the AGT caches is probably going to have to happen soon on open weekends. Too bad the cost of gas absolutely sucks right now...

[+AngelMay3]

Thanks so much for everyone's input. I think the plan right now is to try and complete the SWGT and do at least 1 county in the AGT. We will probably do Crawford County, since we are staying near there. If we have time, we might also try Venango County and Warren County (thought I figure Warren County will be swamped for sure). We're still in the planning stages, but I do appreciate everyone's input. I am sure that whatever we do, it will be a wonderful trip.

 

Perhaps I will meet a couple of you at GeoWoodstock :-)

 

Happy caching!

 

Angel

[TrailStrider]

I completed the AGT geotrail back in the summer of 2009. It was totally awesome. I did it with my wife and 2 children who were 6 and 8 at the time. They loved doing it with us and it brought some great family time. We have a camp in Forest county, so we used this as our headquarters for achieving all 10 county coins. We were very impressed with these geocoins. We started the SeaWay Trail a couple weeks ago and have completed the Erie and Buffalo/Niagara Falls regions. This is also an awesome program. I will say this. You will have a lot more walking/hiking in the AGT. I run 6-7 miles a day and I actually got a workout doing these caches. There is not as much walking on the SWT, however, the drive is beautiful. I actually preferred the AGT but that is just my opinion. We primarily used an iphone on the AGT and had a lot of "no signal" areas in Potter and Cameron counties. Fortunately we had downloaded the maps ahead of time. I'm not sure if we'll get to do the other SWT areas because it's a long drive from our home. We are planning on doing Indian Waters (Kinzua Area) this summer. It sounds right up our alley and the geocoin looks very cool.

[+Corfmania]

I just completed the AGT on my visit north for the ASP Geobash. I completed it in 81 hours door-to-door from Annapolis, MD. 1350 total driving miles. Very little preparation except the first stop to get a passport, and order of the counties so I was well positioned for scooting up to the ASP Geobash. Three FULL days of caching over 4 days (one day's time consumed by driving from/to Annapolis, and the remaining few hours at ASP). Keep in mind I was alone, I had no hotel plans (found a room or a parking spot to sleep when I ran out of juice), and I stuck to ONLY AGT caches unless others were where I parked or directly on the path. That said, I didn't always choose the quickest ones and I did a fair amount of hiking. I ran in to MANY locations where I thanked goodness I had an SUV. It would have been a much longer adventure in a normal car...

 

Oh, I also never stopped and picked up any coin on the trip (not enough time). I just mailed in my passport and now I have all the coins. You can see my path here.

 

Slept in Franklin after Day 1 (after cache #9)

Slept in Warren after day 2 (after cache #33). I asked if they had a room available during woodstock. She answered with a laugh.

Went off trail to the ASP Geobash after number 36.

If you like Ice Cream, you must stop in Mt. Jewett at "My Sister's Place" restaurant between 41 and 42. Seriously.

Slept in Emporium after day 3 (after cache #52).

Drove straight home after Cache 60.

 

If you have any questions about the AGT or any other caches I visited or DNFd please ask via message from my profile.

 

YOU WILL LOVE IT!

[Mr.Yuck]

Thanks so much for everyone's input. I think the plan right now is to try and complete the SWGT and do at least 1 county in the AGT. We will probably do Crawford County, since we are staying near there. If we have time, we might also try Venango County and Warren County (thought I figure Warren County will be swamped for sure). We're still in the planning stages, but I do appreciate everyone's input. I am sure that whatever we do, it will be a wonderful trip.

 

Perhaps I will meet a couple of you at GeoWoodstock :-)

 

Happy caching!

 

Angel

 

Well, it's one heck of a long drive from Erie, Pa. to Massena, NY!! I've only found maybe 20 Seaway Trail caches, and placed one. All .30 cal ammo boxes provided to us placers. In the BNF (Buffalo-Niagara Falls) region, we went a little crazy on the puzzles and multi's, but nothing too crazy, save for one multi that's like a 4 mile round trip hike. (Mine is only a .22 mile one way hike to a stand-alone cache). Our 15th cache was never placed, for who knows what reason, and another will be archived any day now if the owner doesn't respond to the May 9th "friendly reminder" from the reviewer.

 

I believe you might be able to get your required 10 SLR (St. Lawrence Region) caches in the Thousand Islands area, and not have to drive all the way to Massena. Not sure though, and I also noticed 3 or 4 SLR caches that are way inland from the Seaway, like 15-20 miles.

[+AngelMay3]

Thanks so much for everyone's input! I so with we had the time (and energy to do both) but I think we will at least catch part of each of the trails. I can't wait to see this beautiful area of our country...maybe we will run into a couple of you at GWS.

Thanks,

[+Scarecrowe]

Thanks so much for everyone's input! I so with we had the time (and energy to do both) but I think we will at least catch part of each of the trails. I can't wait to see this beautiful area of our country...maybe we will run into a couple of you at GWS.

Thanks,

 

As a native Pennsylvanian geocacher, I can throw a complete wrench into your plans in regards to geotrails for GWS. Pennsylvania currently has 9 active geotrails, each rewarding coins or medallions, 7 of which are within striking distance of GWS. I can't speak for the Seaway Trail (though from everything I've read on other sites and talking with other people, it is an amazing trail, I just have no personal experience) but I can say the rest of these are top notch. Since you had expressed interest in the AGT, a geotrail that covers a region about the size of the state of New Jersey, I'm basing this list on that region of the state and the distance involved.

 

#1. Allegheny Geotrail: http://www.alleghenygeotrail.com/

 

Find 6 caches in one of the 10 participating counties and recieve a coin; get all 10 county coins and receive the 11th master coin. Coins are all free. Plan on driving a lot of miles for this one, sometimes in very remote areas. As others in this thread have stated, expect this to get hit hard during GWS. Warren County, the location of GWS, is one of the 10 counties in the trail. This program has been running for three years now and has been a very popular one. This also represents the first year that the program was not extended, so basically whatever coins are left are whatever coins are left. If you're coming up ahead of time, you may not have any issues, but this is one that I see running short of coins in the near future. If you really hustle, you can probably complete this one in three days. Realistically, expect 4 or 5 days to complete it.

 

#2. Legacy of Conservation Geotrail: http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/geotrail.aspx

 

Collect the conservation cards from 30 caches and receive a free geocoin. Consider this the Allegheny Geotrail on steroids. Geographically it falls in the same region more or less with the AGT, but all on state lands. The difference is that you have no choice on your caches. You need 30 caches and there are only 30 caches in the program. Some of these caches require 5 or 6 mile roundtrips on foot through rugged terrain. If you are an avid hiker, this one will be the geotrail of choice for you. As the AGT, expect to take 4 or 5 days for this one as the caches are spread out and require more than just driving to reach.

 

#3. North County Geotrail: http://www.forestcounty.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=10&cntnt01returnid=59

 

Another hiking geotrail, this one through Allegheny National Forest (for reference, GWS is about 10 miles from the western boundary of this forest.) There are 100 caches placed along a 100 mile stretch of the hiking corridor. Collect 50 of them and receive a medallion. Less overall travel than the other geotrails, but a large amount of hiking. Allegheny Forest is some of the most pristine woodlands in the country, however, so the geotrail is very much worth it. Completion time will be based on how far you like to hike each day.

 

#4. Allegheny River Wilderness Island Geotrail: http://www.alleghenyindianwaters.com/geotrail.html

 

This is going to be another popular one for the GWS for two reasons. First, it is very close by the site of GWS. And second, the geotrail can only be done by canoe as the caches are located on islands along the Allegheny River so its very unique. The company sponsoring this coin does have canoes for rental and suggest a two day time frame to complete the trail. It consists of 8 caches along a stretch of 26 miles of the Allegheny River.

 

#5. Butler Freeport Historic Geotrail: http://www.butlerfreeporttrail.org/geocaching.html

 

Located north of Pittsburgh, the trail is a paved section of the Rails to Trails program along the historic Butler Free port Railroad. Find 20 caches along the 20 mile stretch of the geotrail to recive your coin ($10 donation required for this one). The trail itself has several trailheads along the way for parking if ou feel like leapfrogging down the trail. By car, you can complete this in one day with ease. If you do it by bicycle, you can realistically complete it in about 4 or 5 hours.

 

#6. Armstrong County Geotrail: http://www.armstrongcounty.com/geocaching.php

 

Located northwest of Pittsburgh, this is a brand new trail less than one month old. Find 20 of 26 caches spread over historic sites of the county to recieve your free geocoin. More of an urban style of a geotrail than the previous four, it can easily be completed in a day.

 

#7. Clearfield County Geotrail: http://www.visitclearfieldcounty.org/outdoors/geotrail0/

 

Another brand new geotrail to the area, collect 25 of 30 caches to recieve a geocoin (while free, they are asking a small $5 donation if you enjoyed the trail). The theme of the geotrail this year is cemeteries. All 30 caches are placed in historical cemeteries around the county. Very well put together geotrail, figure on 1 to 2 days to complete it.