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PaneledZero

Removing Logs

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I think that your claiming that EC CO's are "asinine" because they don't conform to your personal opinion or beliefs is rude, crude and uncalled for.

 

Deleting an honest log is rude, crude, and uncalled for.

 

BTW, sincerely disagreeing with somebody isn't playing the Devil's Advocate.

 

Again, your unfounded opinion of what would constitute an "honest" log -- not that I raised the issue of honesty in my posts at all.

 

"Devil's Advocate: In common parlance, a devil's advocate is someone who, given a certain argument, takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with, just for the sake of argument. In taking such position, the individual taking on the devil's advocate role seeks to engage others in an argumentative discussion process. The purpose of such process is typically to test the quality of the original argument and identify weaknesses in its structure, and to use such information to either improve or abandon the original, opposing position."

 

Which is what I did -- I never said that I agreed with the point. I was simply trying to ask you to consider the other side of it. Hence the point of my then saying that I did have one cacher log like that which was offered as an example of how the original argument might not hold. The sincere disagreement came about when you made your statements of opinion as if they were facts, and made rude and crude comments about others.

 

But it's point taken that you refuse to cease stating your opinion as if it is factual, and refuse to acknowledge that calling an EC CO "asinine" is just plain wrong.

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I think that your claiming that EC CO's are "asinine" because they don't conform to your personal opinion or beliefs is rude, crude and uncalled for.

 

Deleting an honest log is rude, crude, and uncalled for.

 

BTW, sincerely disagreeing with somebody isn't playing the Devil's Advocate.

 

Again, your unfounded opinion of what would constitute an "honest" log -- not that I raised the issue of honesty in my posts at all.

 

"Devil's Advocate: In common parlance, a devil's advocate is someone who, given a certain argument, takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with, just for the sake of argument. In taking such position, the individual taking on the devil's advocate role seeks to engage others in an argumentative discussion process. The purpose of such process is typically to test the quality of the original argument and identify weaknesses in its structure, and to use such information to either improve or abandon the original, opposing position."

 

Which is what I did -- I never said that I agreed with the point. I was simply trying to ask you to consider the other side of it. Hence the point of my then saying that I did have one cacher log like that which was offered as an example of how the original argument might not hold. The sincere disagreement came about when you made your statements of opinion as if they were facts, and made rude and crude comments about others.

 

But it's point taken that you refuse to cease stating your opinion as if it is factual, and refuse to acknowledge that calling an EC CO "asinine" is just plain wrong.

 

The personal nature of your arguments suggests to me that you're not trying to play the Devil's Advocate. If you meant to take issue with my use of the word "asinine," you should have done so directly instead of making a disingenuous attempt to frame a larger argument around it.

 

It's unfortunate that you've chosen to be personally offended by a comment that I made in support of another person's right to log an Earthcache. However, since there were no details given about the particular Earthcache, it's a stretch to claim that I was saying anything about the CO personally. The behaviour described is, to me, asinine. I don't know who the CO is or how he/she behaves outside of the context of the Earthcache.

 

This is a discussion forum. It is safe to assume that almost anything that anybody writes here is a matter of opinion even if their statements aren't couched with weakening phrases and punctuated with emoticons. Getting into a nit-picky battle about the way people state their points is a surefire way to make any thread go down in flames. Attacking me because I don't start every sentence with "I feel" and "I think that" and "I believe" is no different than attacking somebody else for making spelling mistakes or using "lol" as punctuation.

 

:o:angry::o:unsure::grin::D:grin:B):););):D:anicute::grin:;)

Edited by narcissa

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Forgive my ignorance of Earth Caches. I just started looking into them because I love geology. The log removal is confusing to me though. I thought you were supposed to log your visit, whether you found the information or not. Does that mean you can only write a log on an Earthcache if you found it? Or is each one specific to the cache (as in a cache maker only wants positive or correct information, but no no finds or mistaken information) Or is it just if you don't fulfill all the requirements of the cache, you don't get to log (as in you couldn't find the cache, therefore you don't know the answers, so you don't get to log)

 

For myself, I find the logs that state that people had problems helpful because every once in a while, my GPS coords are completely off (and then the following day they are right on...go figure). But if other people had problems, it just tells me to go back and try the next day or another time. If everyone finds it perfectly, I figure there is no way I'm going to find it if I haven't right then. So I like all kinds of logs.

 

Could someone please clarify this for me so I don't do the wrong thing for the Earthcaches?

 

Thanks!

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You shouldn't post a "found it" log unless you've done the required tasks and sent the responses to the cache owner. Just visiting the site isn't enough. Certainly, if you have difficulties and you think other cachers should know about them, a note log might be appropriate.

 

Always read the cache pages carefully. Some cache owners like to approve your responses before you log the smiley. And don't hesitate to write the cache owner privately if you have questions.

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You shouldn't post a "found it" log unless you've done the required tasks and sent the responses to the cache owner. Just visiting the site isn't enough. Certainly, if you have difficulties and you think other cachers should know about them, a note log might be appropriate.

 

Always read the cache pages carefully. Some cache owners like to approve your responses before you log the smiley. And don't hesitate to write the cache owner privately if you have questions.

Yes, this is good advise. I have saw some EC's that the CO requires approvel before logging the find, would this not be considered an ALR? We always send the answers after we log the find and upload our photos, but we try very hard to answer the CO's logging reqiurements. Just visiting a site and uploading a photo is not enough to log an EC, that is just like Waymarking. :D

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You shouldn't post a "found it" log unless you've done the required tasks and sent the responses to the cache owner. Just visiting the site isn't enough. Certainly, if you have difficulties and you think other cachers should know about them, a note log might be appropriate.

 

Always read the cache pages carefully. Some cache owners like to approve your responses before you log the smiley. And don't hesitate to write the cache owner privately if you have questions.

Yes, this is good advise. I have saw some EC's that the CO requires approvel before logging the find, would this not be considered an ALR? We always send the answers after we log the find and upload our photos, but we try very hard to answer the CO's logging reqiurements. Just visiting a site and uploading a photo is not enough to log an EC, that is just like Waymarking. :D

 

It's not something I would do, but I think CO's are allowed to ask for responses first - I see the request often enough. I also get a lot of people sending me answers and asking if it's okay to log.

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So glad I found this topic today because right now I have a bee in my bonnet over this very thing.

 

Here's the cache....

GC1PGDE

 

We were visiting in Arizona from NC over Thanksgiving. My children are Carolina Cachette and Carolina City Girl. I had one day to get on the hotel computer. I had dropped TB's in another cache and wanted to get those logged before they were scooped up by someone else....so I figured I would log this one. I wasn't able to attach my camera to the hotel computer to send photo's.

 

Here's what I posted when I found it-- (well this is what HE copied me--I think part of it may be missing-but I'm not sure)

 

I will email our photo and answers when I return to NC next week. We are in Tucson for a large family gathering. We spent the ENTIRE day at Colossal Cave Park. We toured the gardens, some went on a trail ride, we had wagon rides, lunch, watched a horse get a new shoe. All the kids collected the needed punch-outs to gain their prize at the cave gift shop. Grandma even got them each a bag of dirt to enjoy the sluice. We (all 20-some of us) finally made it up the mountain to the cave entrance. Enjoyed the view of the castle. The cave was really neat and Carolina Cachette is thankful we didn't see any bats. Carolina City Girl also enjoyed herself, especially Big Birds mark. Our guide was very knowledgeable and friendly. It was a great day

 

so then later he writes a note....then later he deletes my log....and rewrites the cache page with all his disclaimers about wanting everything promptly...the cache page was NOT written like that when I left home.

 

We got home LAST NIGHT--not sure how many of you travel for a week at a time, but there's stuff to do when you get back home and logging caches aren't usually at the top of the list.

 

Would YOU have deleted my log? IMO, if this is the nonsense a person has to put up with to log an earthcache-I won't be bothered anymore.

 

 

ETA: I intentionally wrote in the cache log that 1. we are traveling-and logging properly is difficult when on the road. 2. that we were with a large group--things are not on my schedule--so expecting me to see his updated posts are just nuts 3. I pointed out landmarks (without giving out the cache answers)-so that he knew I was there--like Big Birds Mark is something a guide pointed out in the cave, and the castle is viewed from the patio area outside the cave entrance-its on a hillside that you can see from the cave entrance-its not part of the park.

Edited by Little Miss Muffet

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The forums are NOT the place to make complaints about individual caches or cachers. In the case of EarthCches, you can contact the EarthCache team via www.earthcache.org.

 

Thanks

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So glad I found this topic today because right now I have a bee in my bonnet over this very thing.

 

Here's the cache....

GC1PGDE

 

We were visiting in Arizona from NC over Thanksgiving. My children are Carolina Cachette and Carolina City Girl. I had one day to get on the hotel computer. I had dropped TB's in another cache and wanted to get those logged before they were scooped up by someone else....so I figured I would log this one. I wasn't able to attach my camera to the hotel computer to send photo's.

 

Here's what I posted when I found it-- (well this is what HE copied me--I think part of it may be missing-but I'm not sure)

 

I will email our photo and answers when I return to NC next week. We are in Tucson for a large family gathering. We spent the ENTIRE day at Colossal Cave Park. We toured the gardens, some went on a trail ride, we had wagon rides, lunch, watched a horse get a new shoe. All the kids collected the needed punch-outs to gain their prize at the cave gift shop. Grandma even got them each a bag of dirt to enjoy the sluice. We (all 20-some of us) finally made it up the mountain to the cave entrance. Enjoyed the view of the castle. The cave was really neat and Carolina Cachette is thankful we didn't see any bats. Carolina City Girl also enjoyed herself, especially Big Birds mark. Our guide was very knowledgeable and friendly. It was a great day

 

so then later he writes a note....then later he deletes my log....and rewrites the cache page with all his disclaimers about wanting everything promptly...the cache page was NOT written like that when I left home.

 

We got home LAST NIGHT--not sure how many of you travel for a week at a time, but there's stuff to do when you get back home and logging caches aren't usually at the top of the list.

 

Would YOU have deleted my log? IMO, if this is the nonsense a person has to put up with to log an earthcache-I won't be bothered anymore.

 

 

ETA: I intentionally wrote in the cache log that 1. we are traveling-and logging properly is difficult when on the road. 2. that we were with a large group--things are not on my schedule--so expecting me to see his updated posts are just nuts 3. I pointed out landmarks (without giving out the cache answers)-so that he knew I was there--like Big Birds Mark is something a guide pointed out in the cave, and the castle is viewed from the patio area outside the cave entrance-its on a hillside that you can see from the cave entrance-its not part of the park.

:( I understand your fustration. We have had similar experiences with earthcache owners. Many people will not bother earthcaching, seems that all the trouble starts with the ALR photos. Seems the cache you refer to is considered an ALR cache under the new guidelines about the photo uploads. As a Waymarker, and this site being on the National Registery of Historic places, I can't belive that the site is not listed on the Waymarking site in that category. Earthcaches and Waymarks can be listed almost word for word, as they are BOTH virtual caches, only EC's require sending the CO an email with your answers to their logging requirements. And many CO's logging requirements have nothing to do with earth science. ;) EarthCaches published in the last months in according to the new guidelines seem more educating along the geology aspect, I learn alot from earthcaches and waymarks. Thats why I don't quit when some CO makes me p o. :(

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Would YOU have deleted my log? IMO, if this is the nonsense a person has to put up with to log an earthcache-I won't be bothered anymore.

 

Normally, I would not have deleted your log - at least not without an email to you asking you to first complete the logging requirements (although he may have done this). But if there was a substantial delay and I did not get a reply, the answer might be different.

 

At the same time I would not have logged the earthcache until I had completed the logging requirements (leaving aside any issues regarding the photo). In many ways, the logging requirements really are the equivalent of signing a log in a traditional cache. So I wait to claim a find until after that has been done.

 

There usually is no hurry to log a visit and no reason why it can't be done after the earthcache developer has been contacted. A few people logged finds on some of my earthcaches today that they visited weeks ago when they were on vacation. I generally let earthcaches and virtuals wait until I have returned home - when its convenient to email the owners with the answers. I enjoy doing so since I get to look over my photos and remember my trip.

 

It also makes it easier for the earthcache owner if you email the answers before you log, since they do not have to remember which answers have yet to be submitted for which online logs. That is also an important consideration.

 

At this point, I would answer the questions and resubmit the log. It seems that your visit to the earthcache location was a nice experience, and ultimately that is the most important thing.

Edited by mulvaney

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Would YOU have deleted my log? IMO, if this is the nonsense a person has to put up with to log an earthcache-I won't be bothered anymore.

 

Normally, I would not have deleted your log - at least not without an email to you asking you to first complete the logging requirements (although he may have done this). But if there was a substantial delay and I did not get a reply, the answer might be different.

 

At the same time I would not have logged the earthcache until I had completed the logging requirements (leaving aside any issues regarding the photo). In many ways, the logging requirements really are the equivalent of signing a log in a traditional cache. So I wait to claim a find until after that has been done.

 

There usually is no hurry to log a visit and no reason why it can't be done after the earthcache developer has been contacted. A few people logged finds on some of my earthcaches today that they visited weeks ago when they were on vacation. I generally let earthcaches and virtuals wait until I have returned home - when its convenient to email the owners with the answers. I enjoy doing so since I get to look over my photos and remember my trip.

 

It also makes it easier for the earthcache owner if you email the answers before you log, since they do not have to remember which answers have yet to be submitted for which online logs. That is also an important consideration.

 

At this point, I would answer the questions and resubmit the log. It seems that your visit to the earthcache location was a nice experience, and ultimately that is the most important thing.

:( I would agree, I do try to have everything in order when I log an EarthCache, answers and uploads anyway. We did have some trouble uploading on and after 10/10/10 for a few days, but emailed the answers and logged the finds.

Sorry, but I just will not send my answers and wait for the CO to grant me permission to log my find. No guideline says I have to, and I would consider "prior approval" before logging a find an ALR. :(

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I explicitly state on mt EC's that I must have the answers within 7 days of logging. That gives people a reasonable time to submit their answers, or a reasonable amount of time to ask for an extension if they need more time. You can ask for an extension in your log. But, them's my rules and mine only.

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