Be careful with using destroyed for a benchmark,

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

We did some benchmarking today looking for some older marks (from the 1930's) and came across this one.

 

I was going to claim it destroyed since it is not buried in the ground like other marks. But I noticed something odd about the setting and realized that even though most of us would file a destroyed it is still in use by someone, judging from all the pink ribbon wrapped around the concrete and the piece of pink ribbon that was tied to the barbed-wire fence.

 

Notice all the ribbon wrapped around this one.

 

 

You can see the ribbon on the fence.

 

 

How would you log this one? POOR? DESTROYED? Or something else?

 

John

[square nail]

John,

 

You have done a good job of describing what you found. That alone would inform a competent surveyor that this bench can't be used as it was intended. I probably would log it as "poor" since I am not a surveyor. I think that Deb would remove this from the NGS data base if she had your photos and information.

 

Gary

[AZcachemeister]

From previous discussion on this subject, I would say it's in 'POOR' condition...and that's how I would report it.

If the monument were completely uprooted, or the top half broken off, it would then be 'DESTROYED'.

 

Although the accuracy is seriously compromised, it does still carry a certain usefulness dependent on how you used it. Still functions well as a place to rest your GPSr!

[Difficult Run]

From what I can see in the photographs, the monument has been completely uprooted from its setting, and therefore considered destroyed.

As to why there is an inordinate amount of pink flagging wrapped around it, that's anyone's guess, but it doesn't necessarily mean its still in use.

 

~ Mitch ~

[Bill93]

Was there a hole nearby, or had the dirt & sand washed away from it in place?

 

Most of that flagging may be a few years old? I don't know how long the stuff lasts in your environment, but it doesn't look very fresh.

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

Was there a hole nearby, or had the dirt & sand washed away from it in place?

 

Most of that flagging may be a few years old? I don't know how long the stuff lasts in your environment, but it doesn't look very fresh.

 

I didn't see a hole anywhere nearby. It looks to us that the ground has washed away from the concrete and there is evidence that water flowed pretty heavily around the concrete and may have exerted enough force to cause it to lean. It is leaning slightly in a "down- stream" direction as if the water pressure is what caused it to lean.

 

As to the flagging, around here it only last about a year before it starts coming apart. From the remaining color, I would guess that it was 9 or 10 months old. (but that is just an estimation)

 

I bumped it with the heel of my hand and it barely moved, so it may have more concrete below ground than what it appears to have in the picture.

 

John

[+Harry Dolphin]

Dunno. I'd say that it's pretty useless. If it's supposed to mark an exact elevation (orthometric height), I don't see how it can be of any use. It doesn't seem to have an underground marker. Seems to be 'destroyed' to me.

But, then again, I logged one as 'good', and PENDOT disagreed with me. It seems they thought the elevation to be off by .12 ft. LY2086. PENDOT marked it as 'poor'. But it should now be usable? The one you found is of no use. Same as the one I found lying on its side. That one is destroyed.

[Bill93]

If you aren't sure it has moved any more than the leaning, I'd log it as poor.

 

But recall what NGS people have told us: Categorization is less important than describing what we find.

 

I'd describe it and let a potential user decide if it is too far gone for their purpose.

[kayakbird]

Caution here.

 

It should be determined if there is a 'tooth root' of concrete holding it in its original position. I have seen GOOD recoveries by NGS & USGS that note a slight lean. And whoever flagged this may be using it in a local grid and would be unhappy if a souvenir hunter came along with a sledge hammer after it is DESTROYED. MEL