caches in buildings

[ashnikes]

i didnt see in the guidelines where we could not hide caches inside buildings....

anyone clarify? i want to hide some in my favorite public places

[GOF and Bacall]

I've found a couple in libraries. The two things you would need to watch for are violating commercial guidelines and adequate permission.

[+DragonflyTotem]

i didnt see in the guidelines where we could not hide caches inside buildings....

anyone clarify? i want to hide some in my favorite public places

 

I haven't seen one inside myself, but a quick google brings up lots of sites (particularly governmental at some level) which discusses getting permissions and rules for placing them inside buildings. And there is the one cache inside the space station....technically a building I'd think?

[+thedeadpirate]

I've found a couple in libraries. The two things you would need to watch for are violating commercial guidelines and adequate permission.

And make sure the use of a GPS is essential to the hunt.

[+StarBrand]

If these are commercial buildings of any kind - and you expect Geocachers to enter them - don't bother - it will never get by the reviewers.

[+ADTCacheur]

Avoid the following:

1. placing in commercial structures

2. placing in a building where GPS signal is blocked (most buildings)

3. placing without permission

4. placing in plain sight

5. placing in a dangerous area

 

avoid these, follow the guidelines and don't make enemies of reviewers who hold grudges, and your cache will be posted

[+niraD]

Avoid the following:

1. placing in commercial structures

2. placing in a building where GPS signal is blocked (most buildings)

3. placing without permission

4. placing in plain sight

5. placing in a dangerous area

 

avoid these, follow the guidelines and don't make enemies of reviewers who hold grudges, and your cache will be posted

Just a few quibbles:

 

2. Placing containers or stages where the GPS signal is blocked is fine, as long as "the option of using accurate GPS coordinates [is] an integral part of the cache hunt". I've found a number of caches where I had no GPS signal at the cache site, but accurate GPS coordinates were an integral part of the cache hunt. One way to do this is to have coordinates take you to a clue, and have the clue describe the location of the cache without coordinates. Another is simply to provide accurate coordinates, and let seekers figure out how to find GZ when there is no GPS signal at GZ.

 

4. There's nothing wrong with hiding containers or stages in plain sight. As a practical matter, anything hidden in plain sight needs to be camouflaged well. Otherwise, it will be muggled.

 

5. Dangerous areas are fine too. Most true 5-star terrain caches are going to be dangerous if you don't have the necessary equipment, skills, or experience. Some are going to be dangerous even with the necessary equipment, skills, or experience.

 

[edit: clarify point 5]

Edited May 29, 2010 by niraD

[+StarBrand]

Avoid the following:

1. placing in commercial structures

2. placing in a building where GPS signal is blocked (most buildings)

3. placing without permission

4. placing in plain sight

5. placing in a dangerous area

 

avoid these, follow the guidelines and don't make enemies of reviewers who hold grudges, and your cache will be posted

 

Wow - the reviewers I know do not hold grudges. Particularly if you follow the guidelines.

 

Please note - your 'avoid' guidence above IS NOT from the guidelines.

1. Read the guidelines to see the true commercial guideline.

2. No such guideline

3. Adequate permission is not the same as explicit permission

4. No suche guideline - in fact many caches are hidden in plain sight - almost an art form.

5. The reviewers do not try to police or judge the safety of any cache that otherwise fits in the guidelines

[+wimseyguy]

i didnt see in the guidelines where we could not hide caches inside buildings....

anyone clarify? i want to hide some in my favorite public places

 

From the Guidelines that apply to all cache types header:

You as the owner of the cache must visit the site and obtain the coordinates with a GPS. GPS usage is an essential element of geocaching.

If you cannot get a decent signal in your chosen building, then neither will the seekers.

 

From the commercial cache guideline:

The geocache is presumed to be commercial if the finder is required to go inside a business,

 

From the Off-Limits Physical Caches guideline:

Caches near, on or under public structures deemed potential or possible targets for terrorist attacks. These may include but are not limited to highway bridges, dams, government buildings, elementary and secondary schools, and airports.

 

You already mentioned not bothering to read the guidelines in another thread; maybe you should take the time to do so?

[+dfx]

From the Guidelines that apply to all cache types header:

You as the owner of the cache must visit the site and obtain the coordinates with a GPS. GPS usage is an essential element of geocaching.

If you cannot get a decent signal in your chosen building, then neither will the seekers.

doesn't really matter though. caches in caves have the same problem, and there's plenty of those around. it just needs to be listed apropriately.

[+wimseyguy]

I don't recall anything in the OP about caves.

Nope, just double checked, he was asking about buildings.

[+niraD]

From the Guidelines that apply to all cache types header:

You as the owner of the cache must visit the site and obtain the coordinates with a GPS. GPS usage is an essential element of geocaching.

If you cannot get a decent signal in your chosen building, then neither will the seekers.

There are ways to "visit the site and obtain the coordinates with a GPS" even if there is no GPS signal right next to the cache itself. And there are ways for seekers to use accurate GPS coordinates to locate GZ, even if there is no GPS signal right next to the cache itself.

[+dfx]

I don't recall anything in the OP about caves.

Nope, just double checked, he was asking about buildings.

ok, let me spell it out for you then, step by step.

 

your point:

premise 1: you cannot list any caches where you didn't obtain the cache coordinates with a GPS device (as per guidelines).

premise 2: you cannot obtain GPS coordinates inside a building.

conclusion: therefore you cannot put a cache inside a building.

 

my point:

premise 1: you cannot list any caches where you didn't obtain the cache coordinates with a GPS device (as per guidelines).

premise 2: you cannot obtain GPS coordinates inside a cave.

fact: there exist caches inside caves.

conclusion: therefore, either premise 1 or premise 2 (or both) aren't fully correct.

[+tozainamboku]

I don't recall anything in the OP about caves.

Nope, just double checked, he was asking about buildings.

ok, let me spell it out for you then, step by step.

 

your point:

premise 1: you cannot list any caches where you didn't obtain the cache coordinates with a GPS device (as per guidelines).

premise 2: you cannot obtain GPS coordinates inside a building.

conclusion: therefore you cannot put a cache inside a building.

 

my point:

premise 1: you cannot list any caches where you didn't obtain the cache coordinates with a GPS device (as per guidelines).

premise 2: you cannot obtain GPS coordinates inside a cave.

fact: there exist caches inside caves.

conclusion: therefore, either premise 1 or premise 2 (or both) aren't fully correct.

You as the owner of the cache must visit the site and obtain the coordinates with a GPS. GPS usage is an essential element of geocaching. Therefore, although it is possible to find a cache without a GPS, the option of using accurate GPS coordinates as an integral part of the cache hunt must be demonstrated for all physical cache submissions.

Looks like we need a reviewer to chime in. The guidelines as written are not very clear.

 

The main point of this guideline is the phrase "the option of using accurate GPS coordinates as an integral part of the cache hunt must be demonstrated for all physical cache submissions." My understanding is that Groundspeak defines geocaching as using a GPS to find hidden containers. This is to differentiate geocaching from letterboxing and other game. The general interpretation has always been the a geocache can have components or stages that don't use a GPS, as long as there exists the option of using accurate GPS coordinates as an integral part of the cache hunt as some point. This has been interpreted by the reviewers in the past to include a final stage which didn't use a GPS so long as the GPS could be used at some point. Therefore there are caches hidden in buildings, in caves, and in tunnels so long as there is some stage where you use the GPS in your search.

 

The way the guidelines are worded seems to imply however that the cache owner must go to the cache site and obtain coordinates with a GPS. If "the site" means the location of the final stage this would seem to preclude any final containers inside of buildings. If "the site" means the location of a stage where the finder has the option of using GPS then cache can be inside of buildings.

 

I have see caches in parking structures where the finder can go on the roof level and determine the location of the cache (usually near a stairwell) and then the finder had to figure out which level the cache was actually on. I have seen these listed as traditionals, though I suppose technically they would be multis with the first stage on the roof and the final somewhere else.

[+thedeadpirate]

Caches inside buildings are definitely doable. Library caches are quite popular.

 

Here's a post by a reviewer that gives a couple of ways to implement one.

 

The majority of library caches submitted to me for review *are* placed with permission, which is a good idea for the reasons ShowStop has listed.

 

If you want to hide this type of cache, you will find librarians, as a rule, to be very welcoming. They tend to have inquisitive personalities and are usually helpful in designing a fun "treasure hunt" involving their library. (Side benefit: more library visitors.)

 

Remember to do your best to include GPS use as an integral part of your library cache hunt. The two easiest ways are to have the indoors clue lead the finder to an outdoors cache container that can be found using a GPS, or to start off with using the GPS to find a container that tells the finder where to go inside the library to find the final cache and logbook.

[+wimseyguy]

I never said caches could not be in or on buildings. I might even own one or three that are myself, and have founds dozens that are.

But since the OP has posted in another thread that he cannot be bothered to read the guidelines, and started this thread with the statement that he didn't see anything in the guidelines about caches in buildings, I merely highlighted the relevant guidelines he should pay attention.

 

Any other interpretation of my first post to this thread is inaccurate and a stretch of what I posted. ***This is not a disclaimer.