+Rich in NEPA Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Is there an established protocol, etiquette or "professional courtesy" involving the recovery of underground marks? Specifically, what is the accepted procedure for leaving the mark? Should it be completely buried again, or simply covered over in the same manner as it was found? Last Thursday I was involved in recovering tri-station LY2803. Upon arriving at the site the witness post was found intact and near it was a depression in the ground about 6-8 inches deep indicating a very old excavation where the mark would be. We dug down another 10-12 inches in order to uncover the top of the concrete monument and the mark itself. Either someone had left the hole only partially backfilled when the station was monumented, or it was dug up at a later date and only partly filled in again. There were no reported recoveries since the year the station was monumented so it's hard to tell when this might have occurred. Is it customary to leave the mark and the ground over or around it in the same condition as it was found (in this case only partly filled over), or should the hole be completely backfilled to level of the surrounding surface? Thanks in advance. Cheers ... ~Rich in NEPA~ --- You might own the cache, but geocaching.com owns you! --- Quote Link to comment
+Kewaneh & Shark Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 If the mark was intended to be buried, then the best thing to do would be to leave it as it was intended. Surveyors usually cover the hole back up. Keep on Caching! (and Benchmarking!) - Kewaneh Quote Link to comment
+river city ramblers Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I once visited a benchmark site (GV3568) about five times until I found a metal rod in a butied compartment with a hinged aluminum lid. It was one to two inches below ground and I buried it again. It was in a very public location - a city park - so I imagined it was meant to be out of sight. Quote Link to comment
Wild T2 Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I think that many of the depressions are the result of frequent use by surveyors. The first surveyor digs the mark up, uses it, and fills the hole back up. But some of the soil is lost in the process. Repeat enough times and you will be slightly building up the area around the hole with the lost soil and leaving the depression. We have sometimes borrowed soil from somewhere else or used play sand from the lumberyard to fill in the depression. Quote Link to comment
+GEO*Trailblazer 1 Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Well I say, leave it as you find it. On the farm it's if the gate was closed,close it. If it aint broke don't fix it! I try and probe the underground marks first to note the new depth + - in locations that have not been dug up,or sometimes they are out of the ground farther due to erosion,there is so much detail we also miss. The new angles to the references and azimuths,we assume they are still the same........ Astronomical Observation at the station,and bearing of the Magnetic diffrence at that point....... HUMMMMMMMMMM!!!!! there is more that I missed as well. WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS *GEOTRYAGAIN* TAKE PRIDE IN AMERICA http://www.doi.gov/news/front_current.html 1803-2003 "LOUSIANA PURCHASE" http://www.lapurchase.org "LEWIS AND CLARK EXPADITION" http://lewisclark.geog.missouri.edu/index Arkansas Missouri Geocachrs Association http://www.ARK-MOGeocachersAssociatoin@msnusers.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ark-Mo-Geocachers Quote Link to comment
+15Tango Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 I've noticed from reading some data sheets that a reference mark for the main benchmark will be something like a "mass of concrete containing a brass marker buried two feet underneath the marker"--I would assume in your case, the actual marker was destroyed or removed, and what you actually found buried was the remaining reference marker. "There comes a time in every rightfully constructed boy's life when he gets an urge to seek for buried treasure"--Mark Twain Quote Link to comment
+Rich in NEPA Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by 15Tango:I would assume in your case, the actual marker was destroyed or removed, and what you actually found buried was the remaining reference marker. In this particular case there was no backup sub-surface station mark. The original mark was described as being 16 inches below grade. The root structure in the dirt above the mark was quite advanced leading me to believe that it wasn't uncovered very recently. It also seemed strange to me that two other landmark stations in the immediate vicinty had been destroyed and no recoveries were ever reported to NGS to update their status. Cheers ... ~Rich in NEPA~ --- You might own the cache, but geocaching.com owns you. --- Quote Link to comment
+Corp Of Discovery Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 This topic seems to relate to this benchmark I recently found : ME2978. I would like to get some input, did I log it right? Remember, wherever you go- there you are! Quote Link to comment
+joefrog Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Rich in NEPA:_ _ Is there an established protocol, etiquette or "professional courtesy" involving the recovery of underground marks? Specifically, what is the accepted procedure for leaving the mark? Should it be completely buried again, or simply covered over in the same manner as it was found? My question is related, but even more basic... how does one go about looking for an underground benchmark? In a public place, for example. I'd bet the officials frown on someone walking up with a shovel & start flinging dirt! Joel (joefrog) "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for ye are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!" Quote Link to comment
+jeff35080 Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Here's one in a rural area near Montevallo that you could go search for http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.asp?PID=DH2479 at least it has a marker set above the surface. I may just ride down there and try to log that one. Jeff http://www.AlaCache.com http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com http://www.NotAChance.com If you hide it, they will come.... Quote Link to comment
Z15 Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Digging can get you into trouble. We had one of our surveyors cause a big stink because he starting digging for a bench mark in this historic park. The security people detained them for destruction of property and his boss has to go smooth things over. He never bothered to seek permission to dig. btw-They never new the existence of the old survey mark and were ultimately very happy to have it uncovered but the are he was digging was near an old burial site. That PS was reassigned from crew supervision to office work because of his insensitivity to private property (he had several complaints in the past), upper management wanted him disciplined. Also, in Michigan you must notify Miss Dig before you do any underground work/digging so they can come out and mark all the utilities. If you go ahead without clearance, you can be billed for any damages or work that is done to repair damage you caused by breaking the fiber optic cable etc. Last spring the county road crews were ditching along the highway. They severed a fiber (Charter communications) optic cable and it took almost 1 day to restore service to some 100,000 customers. So be careful, I came close to damaging a gas service line one that was only 1 ft deep. And I know a surveyor that was detained by the Air Police near an air force base. The contractor dug in the wrong place (marked in error) and severed the USAF SAC communications cable, bombers were scambled. He said they were held face down in the dirt, with a boot in the middle of his back and a gun to the back of his head till they determined they were supposed to be digging in the area. They were looking for someone to pay and he was on the hook. Seems the telephone company guy came out and moved the flags to indicate he marked it right and the surveyor and construction crew screwed up. Lucky for them one of the loader operators wife had stopped by and snapped some photos the day before (for a scape book for a retiring worker) and it showed the cable markers and that put all the blame of AT&T worker. [This message was edited by elcamino on October 25, 2003 at 09:17 AM.] Quote Link to comment
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