WAAS

[zeppelin6o]

I no longer can pick up any waas satellites. My E Trex Legend is enabled for waas. I can't pick none of the 33 or higher satelites. I live in Pa. Anyone have the same problem ??

[jmundinger]

I no longer can pick up any waas satellites. My E Trex Legend is enabled for waas. I can't pick none of the 33 or higher satelites. I live in Pa. Anyone have the same problem ??

 

which ones are the waas satellites?

[+splashy]

Go2 your gps sat bar screen, the ones with the D in the bar are the waas sats, if any. Don't worry if your's has none.

[+Viper715]

WAAS Satelites ar #'s, 33,34,35,39,47,48 and 51. You will most typically only pick one up at a time as the signal from each of those satelites contain all of the correction data for all of the ground stations. When a D appears at the bottom of any other satelite that means that it is being corrected by WAAS and you have better accuracy. The only time I ever pick up WAAS in central Missouri is if I leave the GPS in the wide open for more than 10 minutes and then if I move it I lose it. Garmin Dakota 20

Here is a good link about WAAS

 

I no longer can pick up any waas satellites. My E Trex Legend is enabled for waas. I can't pick none of the 33 or higher satelites. I live in Pa. Anyone have the same problem ??

 

which ones are the waas satellites?

[+ecanderson]

I no longer can pick up any waas satellites. My E Trex Legend is enabled for waas. I can't pick none of the 33 or higher satelites. I live in Pa. Anyone have the same problem ??

 

which ones are the waas satellites?

For the OP (location is PA in the U.S.), it would be 48 and 51. You don't show your location, so can't say for where you are. Could be Outer Mongolia, and the answer there is different.

 

As for the other poster who notes his Dakota 20 doesn't lock WAAS well, welcome to the club. WAAS support on the Dakota bites. My eTrex Summit HC does a MUCH better job in this regard. In fact, WAAS support is so lousy on my Dakota 20 that I'm about to have a long chat with Garmin about it. I can be looking at full signal strength on either 48 or 51 and watch the Dakota time out trying to get the almanac data, and move on to search for another WAAS/EGNOS satellite. Depressing.

[Grasscatcher]

ecanderson,

Go over on the Oregon wiki forum and check out the entire "Oregon WAAS" thread.

 

The more people that contact Garmin the better.

 

They (Garmin) will want to tell you that "whatever" accuracy you are getting is "within range", but they will not answer when you ask why the WAAS bar doesn't turn solid, or takes a looong time to lock then it's quickly lost, etc,etc,etc.

[+PDOP's]

You might now also see a new WAAS satellite (46) in North America.

 

A notification on the FAA website dated 2010/01/19 is shown below (link - you might have to scroll down). :

 

New WAAS GEO to Begin Broadcasting in Test Mode in March

 

January 19, 2010 – Beginning in March, the FAA will begin testing a third geostationary satellite (GEO) for WAAS. The test will be conducted using a newly-leased transponder on the Inmarsat 4F3 GEO (broadcasting on PRN-133). During the test period, the navigation signal will be unusable for navigation purposes. The test will run from March to December 2010 at which time the broadcast signal is expected to be certified as operational and usable for navigation.

 

Note that there are two numerical designations for each WAAS satellite. PRN numbers identify the code transmitted by the satellite while the NMEA designation is simply the PRN minus 87. Garmin uses the NMEA number.

[+ecanderson]

They (Garmin) will want to tell you that "whatever" accuracy you are getting is "within range", but they will not answer when you ask why the WAAS bar doesn't turn solid, or takes a looong time to lock then it's quickly lost, etc,etc,etc.

There won't be a problem with a discussion of accuracy, since I will simply refuse to allow the conversation to "go there", and will entirely avoid bringing that subject up. Should Garmin mention accuracy, I will not even respond with an EPE number.

 

I will force the conversation to focus strictly upon the fact that I achieve superior signal strength on both 48 and 51 at my location, and that the unit is then unable to obtain almanac data quickly enough to avoid timing out and moving on to the next satellite in an endless dance.

 

By ignoring the issue of EPE altogether, we can focus solely upon the fact that a proper WAAS correction is a useful and advertised feature of this unit, and does not function well.

 

If you read over to the DeLorme threads, they've also experienced problems with WAAS on the Cartesio chip since they starting using them, but DeLorme at least acknowledges that it's a problem, and has evidently been working with STM to develop a fix to the chip's firmware in an attempt to resolve this.

[+ecanderson]

Just had a fascinating phone conversation with Garmin tech support. Problem is acknowledged, firmware mods have been completed and are under test at this time per email that the tech had fairly recently received. Also acknowledged was the nature of the problem: even with great signal strength, the Cartesio based units can and will fail to interpret the WAAS data stream in a timely fashion, causing the jump to the next satellite.

 

I suggested that they also look into the idea of avoiding attempts on any geostationary satellites that are obviously totally off the horizon (e.g., attempts at EGNOS satellites when you're sitting here in Colorado). I was very pleased that the tech understood the usefulness of that added twist, and not only took the report on that, but added it to the list of issues for engineering to investigate. Between the two of us, we agreed that even in the event of a 'fix' to the existing problem, it would be better in the event of a WAAS lock failure to spend time cycling ONLY through satellite numbers that held some hope of providing data in the user's location. Of course, whether they take that on as a task is a crap shoot, but at least it's been pushed up the chain.

 

So we'll see what comes of this, but at least there's hope. Was possibly the most useful phone call I've ever had with Garmin. Might have helped that the tech also happens to own a Dakota...

Edited March 2, 2010 by ecanderson

[Grasscatcher]

You might now also see a new WAAS satellite (46) in North America.

 

PDOP, right now it would be just another one for the Oregon's to NOT lock onto or to just look at, and keep on truckin'.

This morning , after numerous previous phone calls (to Garmin) and even more numerous e-mails to support reps and senior support reps , a Garmin rep finally admitted that the WAAS reception problem is a known problem and that "They are working on it", but had no ETA for a fix yet.

 

At least they finally admitted there is a problem!

[+jopasm]

Just to note that the OP has an Etrek, not a Colorado/Dakota/Oregon so the chipset issue probably isn't what's causing his problem.

 

You may have an out of date almanac. Leave the GPS on and somewhere with a clear view of the sky for 10-15 minutes or try resetting it then leaving it out.

[+PDOP's]

PDOP, right now it would be just another one for the Oregon's to NOT lock onto or to just look at, and keep on truckin'.

I share your frustration and hope that Garmin or STM Cartesio get their act together soon.

[Grasscatcher]

PDOP, right now it would be just another one for the Oregon's to NOT lock onto or to just look at, and keep on truckin'.

I share your frustration and hope that Garmin or STM Cartesio get their act together soon.

 

PDOP

With the Oregon X50 3.26 Beta update.......preliminary results show much WAAS reception improvement ! Of course, that's not one of the mentioned changes from 3.20 to 3.26B, but then ....if there is no "official" problem, then the fix doesn't have to be announced "officially" either.

 

After update, unit started up totally differently, reacquired a whole new almanac, locks on either 48 or 51 within 2-3 minutes regularly, start seeing Ds on multiple sats even before WAAS sat turns solid.

 

Definitely different....

[+GPSlug]

You might now also see a new WAAS satellite (46) in North America.

 

A notification on the FAA website dated 2010/01/19 is shown below (link - you might have to scroll down). :

 

New WAAS GEO to Begin Broadcasting in Test Mode in March

 

January 19, 2010 – Beginning in March, the FAA will begin testing a third geostationary satellite (GEO) for WAAS. The test will be conducted using a newly-leased transponder on the Inmarsat 4F3 GEO (broadcasting on PRN-133). During the test period, the navigation signal will be unusable for navigation purposes. The test will run from March to December 2010 at which time the broadcast signal is expected to be certified as operational and usable for navigation.

 

Note that there are two numerical designations for each WAAS satellite. PRN numbers identify the code transmitted by the satellite while the NMEA designation is simply the PRN minus 87. Garmin uses the NMEA number.

I checked just now and 133(46) is transmitting now, but it's only sending out message type 0 full of zeros. So, not even close to usable.

[+ecanderson]

I checked just now and 133(46) is transmitting now, but it's only sending out message type 0 full of zeros. So, not even close to usable.

No surprise there, but as they expect to have it operational by December '10, we should start to see some real data some time this summer.

 

Anyone in the know heard anything about the progress of the beta of the WAAS fix for the Cartesio chipset units yet?

[Grasscatcher]

I checked just now and 133(46) is transmitting now, but it's only sending out message type 0 full of zeros. So, not even close to usable.

No surprise there, but as they expect to have it operational by December '10, we should start to see some real data some time this summer.

 

Anyone in the know heard anything about the progress of the beta of the WAAS fix for the Cartesio chipset units yet?

 

ECA, check 3 posts above.......v 3.26B

[+ecanderson]

 

ECA, check 3 posts above.......v 3.26B

Yup - missed that one. Hope they are working on more than just the Oregon x50 series. The whole Cartesio lineup needs this. Sounds promising, and I'm glad to hear that the tech support guy was shooting me a straight line when he told me it was headed for beta a couple of weeks ago. Restores a little faith, doncha know. They are admitting that there was an issue, too, so I expect they will produce the released result with a note about WAAS improvement.

[+larryc43230]

PDOP

With the Oregon X50 3.26 Beta update.......preliminary results show much WAAS reception improvement ! Of course, that's not one of the mentioned changes from 3.20 to 3.26B, but then ....if there is no "official" problem, then the fix doesn't have to be announced "officially" either.

 

After update, unit started up totally differently, reacquired a whole new almanac, locks on either 48 or 51 within 2-3 minutes regularly, start seeing Ds on multiple sats even before WAAS sat turns solid.

 

Definitely different....

I was hoping to see the same improvement after updating to the latest beta, but no such luck. After applying the update, the unit rebooted just as quickly as it always has, and, as far as I could tell, did not reacquire the almanac. I applied the update the same day it was announced; I've checked many times since then, keeping my fingers crossed, but have yet to see either a "D" in a satellite bar or any indication that it had acquired a WAAS signal at all.

 

I hope others are having better luck, but I see no improvement from this update.

 

-Larry

[+Unobtainium]

PDOP

With the Oregon X50 3.26 Beta update.......preliminary results show much WAAS reception improvement ! Of course, that's not one of the mentioned changes from 3.20 to 3.26B, but then ....if there is no "official" problem, then the fix doesn't have to be announced "officially" either.

 

After update, unit started up totally differently, reacquired a whole new almanac, locks on either 48 or 51 within 2-3 minutes regularly, start seeing Ds on multiple sats even before WAAS sat turns solid.

 

Definitely different....

I was hoping to see the same improvement after updating to the latest beta, but no such luck. After applying the update, the unit rebooted just as quickly as it always has, and, as far as I could tell, did not reacquire the almanac. I applied the update the same day it was announced; I've checked many times since then, keeping my fingers crossed, but have yet to see either a "D" in a satellite bar or any indication that it had acquired a WAAS signal at all.

 

I hope others are having better luck, but I see no improvement from this update.

 

-Larry

Same here, I've even tried a reset with no 'D's' I'm in Europe, so I don't know if this update has addressed WAAS and EGNOS is not included.

[+ecanderson]

I was hoping to see the same improvement after updating to the latest beta, but no such luck.

-Larry

I know my suggestion got in the queue pretty late in the cycle, but please check something for me.

 

When your unit fails to lock WAAS, what set of WAAS/EGNOS satellites does it cycle through? IF (big if) they implemented the suggestion, your unit in Ohio shouldn't keep cycling through all of the EGNOS numbers - it should stick to cycling between 48 and 51 since your GPS knows you're in the midwest U.S. and not somewhere in Europe.

[+larryc43230]

I know my suggestion got in the queue pretty late in the cycle, but please check something for me.

 

When your unit fails to lock WAAS, what set of WAAS/EGNOS satellites does it cycle through? IF (big if) they implemented the suggestion, your unit in Ohio shouldn't keep cycling through all of the EGNOS numbers - it should stick to cycling between 48 and 51 since your GPS knows you're in the midwest U.S. and not somewhere in Europe.

I just spent some time looking more closely on the satellites page (hadn't really looked that closely before). I've seen it attempt to acquire 33 and 35 (aren't those EGNOS birds?) and 48 and 51 (which I'm fairly sure are WAAS satellites). At least tonight, it's not finding any of them. The best I've ever seen this unit do (as opposed to my 60CSx, which seldom had difficulty locking on to either 48 or 51) was to briefly display a hollow bar for either 48 or 51, then give up trying to lock any of them. Hope this helps!

 

--Larry

[+ecanderson]

I just spent some time looking more closely on the satellites page (hadn't really looked that closely before). I've seen it attempt to acquire 33 and 35 (aren't those EGNOS birds?) and 48 and 51 (which I'm fairly sure are WAAS satellites). At least tonight, it's not finding any of them. The best I've ever seen this unit do (as opposed to my 60CSx, which seldom had difficulty locking on to either 48 or 51) was to briefly display a hollow bar for either 48 or 51, then give up trying to lock any of them. Hope this helps!

 

--Larry

Yeah, them's EGNOS. Guess my suggestion was a tad late. Seem stupid to spend 5 minutes per bird to cycle through ALL of the systems when only the "local" ones can possibly be of any use. Ah well. I figured that even if the fix that's in beta didn't solve all the problems, that at least our units would have the good sense to stay focused on what was within range. Better chance of finally getting a lock. As it is, if you don't get a lock on the first pass by 48/51 (or the EGNOS birds, if you're in Europe), you might as well power the unit down and up again. It's quicker than waiting for the full list at 5 minutes a pop... assuming you have any better luck the 2nd time, of course

[+salsaguy]

I just received my Oregon 450 today.

Was able to get WAAS to work, full "D"'s and sat 51 and obtain 8 ft accuracy outside my house.

I will upload a screen shot pix once I figure out how to

 

Software Version v3.2

Edited March 13, 2010 by salsaguy

[+ecanderson]

I just received my Oregon 450 today.

Was able to get WAAS to work, full "D"'s and sat 51 and obtain 8 ft accuracy outside my house.

I will upload a screen shot pix once I figure out how to

 

Software Version v3.2

Do you live considerably south in the U.S.?

 

Edit: Never mind. I see (not in your profile, but your tag line) that you're in the LA area. Answer affirmative.

Edited March 13, 2010 by ecanderson

[+salsaguy]

Yes I'm in So. California

 

I just received my Oregon 450 today.

Was able to get WAAS to work, full "D"'s and sat 51 and obtain 8 ft accuracy outside my house.

I will upload a screen shot pix once I figure out how to

 

Software Version v3.2

Do you live considerably south in the U.S.?

 

Edit: Never mind. I see (not in your profile, but your tag line) that you're in the LA area. Answer affirmative.

[Grasscatcher]

I just spent some time looking more closely on the satellites page (hadn't really looked that closely before). I've seen it attempt to acquire 33 and 35 (aren't those EGNOS birds?) and 48 and 51 (which I'm fairly sure are WAAS satellites). At least tonight, it's not finding any of them. The best I've ever seen this unit do (as opposed to my 60CSx, which seldom had difficulty locking on to either 48 or 51) was to briefly display a hollow bar for either 48 or 51, then give up trying to lock any of them. Hope this helps!

 

--Larry

Yeah, them's EGNOS. Guess my suggestion was a tad late. Seem stupid to spend 5 minutes per bird to cycle through ALL of the systems when only the "local" ones can possibly be of any use. Ah well. I figured that even if the fix that's in beta didn't solve all the problems, that at least our units would have the good sense to stay focused on what was within range. Better chance of finally getting a lock. As it is, if you don't get a lock on the first pass by 48/51 (or the EGNOS birds, if you're in Europe), you might as well power the unit down and up again. It's quicker than waiting for the full list at 5 minutes a pop... assuming you have any better luck the 2nd time, of course

 

Update....

3.26 b still seems to acquiring a WAAS lock much quicker and more regularly, but the ability to maintain that lock with any movement of the unit doesn't seem to be much improved.

 

ECA, My unit "first" looks for 51 or 48, and generally locks so that it doesn't start "cycling"to other sats. However, under lousy conditions (in the house, lying flat,etc) I have seen it eventually start cycling. At that point , if I turn it off and then back on, it again starts with 48/51 and (with improved conditions) has always (so far) got a WAAS lock.

Without the power cycle, it would continue the sat cycling thru all the other WAAS /Egnos sats. What it would do when it got back around to 48/51? I don't know because I don't have the patience to wait that long.

[+ecanderson]

ECA, My unit "first" looks for 51 or 48, and generally locks so that it doesn't start "cycling"to other sats. However, under lousy conditions (in the house, lying flat,etc) I have seen it eventually start cycling. At that point , if I turn it off and then back on, it again starts with 48/51 and (with improved conditions) has always (so far) got a WAAS lock.

I'm jealous. So are a lot of other folks - you can betcha.

 

Proximity to the Rockies can definitely be an issue for those of us out here on the "Front Range" at 40+ degrees north. The location of the two WAAS satellites has always seemed a bit odd to me -- 48 is west of the Rockies, and can be obscured fairly easily by moving in too close to those 14K foot bumps we share between us. 51 is nearly due south of us, but also just a skosh west (and of course, they're all equatorial). You'd think that one or the other would have placed a bit further east. That said, 51 is nearly always visible here with a powerful signal. In the Western Slope area, you've got clear sky to both unless you start getting into the nooks and crannies to your east.

 

If you don't get the lock on the first pass (something my Summit HC never has a problem with), you're doing the right thing to power cycle it. These units will sit for what feels like an eternity with a solid WAAS signal and try to sort out the almanac.

 

When the weather really improves, this bear needs to go over the mountain to see what I can see. Looks like you have quite a few caches waiting for me.