New Feature - Language Attributes

[Riepichiep]

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ENGLISH

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Geocaching is international. And as many of us probably have already cached outside the own country and outside the own language region we encountered that understanding the listing is difficult. This - to my experience - will strongly apply to any cache type other than Traditionals.

 

I propose to discussion in this forum the following:

• Adding the option for owners to register the language(s) of the listing, similar to the already featured attributes.
  
• Adding search / filtering functionality to search caches to understood languages
  
• Adding in the personal profile the prefered languages
  

The development team is already contacted about this topic and will be following this thread.

 

 

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DEUTSCH

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Geocaching ist international. Viele von uns haben wahrscheinlich schon ausserhalb der Heimat und ausserhalb der eigenen Sprachregion gecached. Dabei kann das verstehen des Listings problematisch sein, was insbesondere bei allen Cache-Typen ausser den Tradis kritisch ist.

 

Ich schlage dem Forum zur Diskussion vor:

• Ergänzung des Listings um die Option, die Sprache(n) des Listings zu erfassen, ähnlich dem Prinzip der "Attribute"
  
• Ergänzung der Such / Filterfunktionen, um Such-Treffer entsprechend dem eigenen Sprachvermögen zu reduzieren.
  
• Ergänzung des Nutzer-Profils mit den Bevorzugten Sprachen. (Optionale Beeinflussung der Suchresultate)
  

Das Entwicklerteam ist über diesen Vorschlag direkt informiert worden und wird diesen Thread verfolgen.

[+baloo&bd]

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ENGLISH

========

Geocaching is international. And as many of us probably have already cached outside the own country and outside the own language region we encountered that understanding the listing is difficult. This - to my experience - will strongly apply to any cache type other than Traditionals.

 

I propose to discussion in this forum the following:

• Adding the option for owners to register the language(s) of the listing, similar to the already featured attributes.
  
• Adding search / filtering functionality to search caches to understood languages
  
• Adding in the personal profile the prefered languages
  

The development team is already contacted about this topic and will be following this thread.

 

 

========

DEUTSCH

========

Geocaching ist international. Viele von uns haben wahrscheinlich schon ausserhalb der Heimat und ausserhalb der eigenen Sprachregion gecached. Dabei kann das verstehen des Listings problematisch sein, was insbesondere bei allen Cache-Typen ausser den Tradis kritisch ist.

 

Ich schlage dem Forum zur Diskussion vor:

• Ergänzung des Listings um die Option, die Sprache(n) des Listings zu erfassen, ähnlich dem Prinzip der "Attribute"
  
• Ergänzung der Such / Filterfunktionen, um Such-Treffer entsprechend dem eigenen Sprachvermögen zu reduzieren.
  
• Ergänzung des Nutzer-Profils mit den Bevorzugten Sprachen. (Optionale Beeinflussung der Suchresultate)
  

Das Entwicklerteam ist über diesen Vorschlag direkt informiert worden und wird diesen Thread verfolgen.

 

Sorry, just don't see the point.

 

If I am in Germany, I know the language will be german. Canada, english or french. Mexico, spanish. What does registering a language gain me?

[Riepichiep]

Sorry, just don't see the point.

 

If I am in Germany, I know the language will be german. Canada, english or french. Mexico, spanish. What does registering a language gain me?

 

Well I guess I can imagine why this topic doesn't really apply to you, as you have practically exclusively cached within the US and thus are fine with english. In the case of many other cachers in other countries travelling around as you do means crossing borders and changing languages. As you might know: In Switzerland we have alone already 4 languages. Moste european countries have their own language.

 

The point is: There actually are several listings around that will be in the local language and i.e. english. That will often be the case in touristic regions or for caches that were placed by tourists.

Therefore if that be a Multi, then it could actually be worth looking at that listing. Or I simply will be able to understand the touristic explainations to the location.

[+flask]

sometimes where more than one language is spoken, the information on the cache page will be given in more than one language as a courtesy.

 

a language attribute would come in handy in cases where one might wish to see which caches will be comprehensible. it's not HUGELY necessary in north america, but in europe where language areas are packed more densely, it could be a very handy thing.

 

even in north america, though, the language of a cache listing would be a handy thing for me. i cache fairly often in quebec and brain damage has left me without the ability to speak french. on caches with long descriptions with necessary information or on puzzles or multis it would save me some time to know in my PQ that the information is given in english as well as french.

 

if it's not a difficult thing to code into the site i can't see how it wouldn't be an asset.

[+terratin]

We're moving to Copenhagen (Denmark) in a few months and neither of us speaks or understands Danish.

 

A lot of caches are already bilingual (danish/english) and other caches translate well enough using an online translator (google). It might not give the exact translation, but that's not really required as the general translation is good enough to understand both description and possible hints.

 

So far i have only encountered problems with puzzle/mystery caches where the language is part of the puzzle (which is only a small percentage of the total number of mystery caches in Copenhagen). Likely we won't be able to solve those and thus not find the related caches. So be it. There's a lot of english puzzle caches (or dutch, my native language) which i also cannot solve.

 

I don't see the point in having a language attribute added: In my experience this would only be usefull in a very limited number of puzzle caches where language is part of the puzzle. For the rest either just use the coords to grab the cache and/or use an online translator (fi google translate).

[+Starf]

Cache descriptions in several languages would be very good!

 

But more important and, I think, not to hard to code, would be that:

In our country, the Netherlands, a lot of caches are described in two (or even more) languages. When you print this caches you have lots of paper in your hands. Also in other countries in Europe we were glad that beside the country's own language, the descriptions were in English.

 

With the new print pages (where you can click on/off the parts that you want) I got the idea: that would be perfect for the languages problem: when the cache owner has a field 'long description english' AND a field 'long description own language' > the cache page shows both, and there is an option to print only the language you want.

[...]

Source: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...=171359&hl=

 

With the option to set descriptions for languages like English, Frensh, German, Spanish, Russian, Polnish etc.

 

In combination with language attributes like suggestet above, this would be perfect! When you open a listing, the native language of the user (not of the owner) should be displayed.

 

---

 

Futhermore, to make geocaching.com really global, translate the whole page into the common languages. Many people don't speak English at all and therefore don't use your site. Best example are Russians. There are only a handfull caches listed in Russia here, but there are many more on Russian cache listing sites. With more languages you get more users. More users gain more money (advertisement, premium members). Think about it!

 

PS: Sorry for my bad English.

Edited January 5, 2010 by Starf

[cezanne]

If I am in Germany, I know the language will be german. Canada, english or french. Mexico, spanish. What does registering a language gain me?

 

It helps a lot when travelling to countries where one does not understand the local language (or one of the local languages). For example, I am not able to understand cache descriptions written in Czech and it would be convenient for me to be able to filter for the ones which also have an English description. (NB: Automatic translations are absolutely useless.) It might not be common in the US to offer cache descriptions in more than language, but the situation is different in some European countries where it is not uncommon that cache hiders speak several languages and are willing to offer cache descriptions in more than one language. Note, moreover, that in some European countries the percentage of multi caches and mystery caches is much higher than in the US. In cities like Vienna the distribution is about roughly 1/3 : 1/3 : 1/3 (#trad : #multi : #myst).

 

Cezanne

[+Starf]

No more opinions to this topic?

[+Nils-Olov]

I'm living in Sweden, a country with 9 million inhabitants. Many cache descriptions is in English and Swedish, some even in German. Some in only English or Swedish.

 

I think it should be a strong recommendation that there should be an English version beside the local language description. The English version needs only contain the for caching most necessary information.

 

I have recently been to Finland and unfortunately found some cache descriptions in Finnish only. But many was in both English and Swedish in addition to Finnish.

 

I believe that a cache owner want to have as many visitors to the cache as possible. If so it would be a good thing to add as many languages as possible to the cache description.

 

To have the cache description form made in a way that it will help and remind the cache owner to add an other language than the local would be a good thing. It would also make it possible for making the website easier to navigate when you search for a language you understand when you read it. I have seen examples on very nice formatted multi language descriptions and unfortunately some less good ones.

 

I admit that not everyone knows English but those who wants to create a cache might be able to get some help with translations to English or maybe more languages.

[Riepichiep]

To have the cache description form made in a way that it will help and remind the cache owner to add an other language than the local would be a good thing. It would also make it possible for making the website easier to navigate when you search for a language you understand when you read it. I have seen examples on very nice formatted multi language descriptions and unfortunately some less good ones.

 

I like that idea of making the reading of multi-language cache descriptions easy and at the same time encouraging to have it accessable to as many visitors as possible.

 

How about an idea I have found with some Auction-Websites:

By clicking a "add-button" you can add an additional description-text field accompagnied by a pulldown to assign the language.

 

What effect would that have:

1) We would have the language attributes selected as proposed in this feed

2) The descriptions are shorter and not overloaded by the multiple languages. This comes in hand if you are caching by paper. But also with the iPhone app it would come in hand to have shorter descriptions.

 

Exactly the readability of the listing has held me from posting my caches in a second (english) language.

Edited January 11, 2010 by Riepichiep

[+beejay&esskay]

I think we had this discussion a month or so ago, perhaps everyone had their say back then.

 

I have never cached outside the USA. I have found only one cache with a non-English description. However, languages used in the description would be a useful bit of information for many.

[+geowas]

Good idea! But additionally - an old request - it would be very helpful to be able to print only one out of several descriptions for caches available in more than one language. Hint for the developers: look at geocaching.de, they have a nice implementation of this.

 

The language topic (with all it's different aspects) comes up here again and again. I really don't understand why there is no reaction on it by the Groundspeak people.

[Riepichiep]

The language topic (with all it's different aspects) comes up here again and again. I really don't understand why there is no reaction on it by the Groundspeak people.

 

Perhaps the pressure isn't sufficient. And that comes perhaps from the fact, that:

1) Groundspeak is in the US and might "suffer" from the typical US/English-mens symptoms: I get along all over the world with my native language.

2) A good number of the people really needing this kind of functionality are not participating in this form as they don't understand english...?

 

Anyone out there able to link up earlier discussion threads?

[+Lil Devil]

You conspiracy theorists should probably take a look at the latest Release Notes thread.

 

...it was necessary for us to make these changes ahead of the site localization effort we have planned for this year. Localizing will enable us to provide the non-English speaking community with a more friendly site by translating common pages and navigation into various languages.

Localization is coming!

 

How it will affect cache pages and descriptions has yet to be seen.

[+Torgut]

You conspiracy theorists should probably take a look at the latest Release Notes thread.

 

...it was necessary for us to make these changes ahead of the site localization effort we have planned for this year. Localizing will enable us to provide the non-English speaking community with a more friendly site by translating common pages and navigation into various languages.

Localization is coming!

 

How it will affect cache pages and descriptions has yet to be seen.

 

It doesn't surprise me that Groundspeak, once again, decides to take the wrong turn. "Localizing" will encourage something which it's alread present in Geocaching: the EXCLUSIVE use of local languages in listings. Like it or not, English is currently the universal language, especially in the area of new technologies (like GPS's). Things work as they are. They would work even better if a listing in English (or "international" as I call it when I log) was mandatory. Not meaning that local languages would be banned, but they should work side by side. But Groundspeak is obviously working to create closed Geocaching communities, encouraging the usage of local languages. Soon, a Dutch will be unable to do Geocaching in any other place except his own little country and UK, USA, Canada, Australia, etc. Sad.

 

This said, I totally agree with the proposal presented in this topic. If we can't have mandatory international information about the cache, at least we could filter immediately the caches. I am Portuguese, and I spend a fair time in Czech Republic (app. half of the year). I have to manually review every new listing and classify it as "understable" or not, from the language point of view. Such attribute would help me as well as travelers geocachers and no doubt it makes more sense like some currently used (Telephone nearby!??).

[+geowas]

You conspiracy theorists should probably take a look at the latest Release Notes thread.

 

<...>

 

Localization is coming!

Yes, but for the UI as I read it - not the topic here.

 

How it will affect cache pages and descriptions has yet to be seen.

Right, so let's conspirate on

 

"Localizing" will encourage something which it's alread present in Geocaching: the EXCLUSIVE use of local languages in listings.

THIS is in fact something I'm afraid of, too.

[cezanne]

The language topic (with all it's different aspects) comes up here again and again. I really don't understand why there is no reaction on it by the Groundspeak people.

 

Perhaps the pressure isn't sufficient. And that comes perhaps from the fact, that:

1) Groundspeak is in the US and might "suffer" from the typical US/English-mens symptoms: I get along all over the world with my native language.

2) A good number of the people really needing this kind of functionality are not participating in this form as they don't understand english...?

 

I do not agree.

 

As 1) is regarded, it is a long time ago that this has been true in terms of geocaching. In the early days a large proportion of cache descriptions have been offered in English - this is not true any longer in many countries.

 

As 2) is regarded, the most typical combination of multilingual descriptions that cachers would like to offer includes an English version. Those who are able and willing to provide an English version of their cache description, do need a better command of English than is needed for just reading some texts. I can read some Italian, but I would never be able to provide an Italian cache description.

 

As the pressure is regarded, I feel that Groundspeak is somehow more willing to assist features which

destroy what has still remained about the international world-wide character of the site (among others offering some parts of the site in various languages other than English, but also the introduction of local reviewers that took place in most countries quite a while ago) than features who support those for whom internationality is an important issue. Features like adding a language attribute or allowing it to separate various language versions of a cache description, would be much cheaper to implement than projects like translating major parts of the site. In my opinion, those who see geocaching as a local activity that takes place just in one's own country could use local geocaching sites. Earth caches have been quite an exception (on the positive side due to the mandatory English version), but I am concerned that this will change in the future at least in the German speaking countries due to a new reviewer.

 

Anyone out there able to link up earlier discussion threads?

 

Sorry, I am too lazy to do that although I have participated in quite a number of such threads over many years, but it's boring to search for these topics as the search utility does not work that nicely.

 

Cezanne

Edited January 13, 2010 by cezanne