GPS buying help

[+Maingray]

 

BUT, the two are still about the same as far as road choices and mistaken guidance goes! I KNOW this because I used both and, let me say, in the short time I used the OR, I found it led me astray MORE often that the PN had.

 

Wow. In the spirit of fairness for this "GPS buying help" thread.....no really...the topo based road maps the delorme units use are terrible. State road designations rather than street names, roads were shifted 100s of feet away from actual position, no one-way designations, intersections onto highways were utterly wrong, bereft POI. Lack of any premium option to rectify this is#2 reason mine went back.

 

I use City Navigator routinely for many many cache runs, family trips and such... the Oregon took me on a 500 miloe trip to NYC and back the other day. Not a single misdirection.

 

This falls into a Non-Bash on-Topic post ©, completely responding to an earlier incorrect post. Not even a "IMO" or cheeky smiley face needed

[+Damin69]

Being a Garmin user and Love my garmins very much. BUt To do paper less I carry 2 GPS with me all the time My NUVI to do my road and GPSMAP 60CSx. I dont like that to do Road route I have to spend another $100 bucks.

 

BUt If I knew then what I know NOW. I would have been all over the PN-40. I have the PN-20 as a back up unit and it is a great little unit but I dont like how slow it is or I would be useing it as my main GPS especially for when I go caching on my Scooter. For the money I would look at Delorme PN- series They are very good units. I am considering getting rid of my Garmin 60 to go with a PN-40 next year.

 

Good luck on your Purchase.

 

As an owner of quite a few gps units, to include the PN-40, I myself don't consider the PN-40 to be of any value for road routing. The map quality is hit and miss, depending on area, and in many of the areas where it's bad, it's off by so much the GPS can't figure out what road you're on so it can't route you. Route calculation is only so so at best, and can be downright awful quite often. If you deviate off route, it calculates so slow that it often can't re-calculate unless you stop. You're much better off going the two unit route like you're currently following, or getting a handheld unit that has decent street maps available for it, and the capability to actually utilize that data.

 

Back to the original topic, what things besides geocaching do you think you might be interested in using a GSP unit for? Do you golf? Are you a hiker? Do you venture into unknown areas often and maybe desire some vehicle navigation capability? Do the discussions on paperless caching interest you? GPS units are great tools, and like most tools, tend to be somewhat specialized. Some tools try to do it all, but are generally less than spectacular for most. Knowing what exactly you intend to do has a lot to do with making good recommendations.

 

My point was not at all about giving up my Nuvi for routeing. Believe me that has its flaws also. I will not give up my Nuvi for Routing in the car. What I would give up is haveing to Carry 2 GPS on my Scooter. I have had more than one time that it has started raining on me while Out caching on the scooter and have had to put my Nuvi AWAY to avoid destroying it. My PN-20 does a Fair Job of routing it is just slow. I feel that the PN-40 would do a good job for what I want it to do. Which is doing a bit of Routing While Geocaching.

[+Rockin Roddy]

 

BUT, the two are still about the same as far as road choices and mistaken guidance goes! I KNOW this because I used both and, let me say, in the short time I used the OR, I found it led me astray MORE often that the PN had.

 

Wow. In the spirit of fairness for this "GPS buying help" thread.....no really...the topo based road maps the delorme units use are terrible. State road designations rather than street names, roads were shifted 100s of feet away from actual position, no one-way designations, intersections onto highways were utterly wrong, bereft POI. Lack of any premium option to rectify this is#2 reason mine went back.

 

I use City Navigator routinely for many many cache runs, family trips and such... the Oregon took me on a 500 miloe trip to NYC and back the other day. Not a single misdirection.

 

This falls into a Non-Bash on-Topic post ©, completely responding to an earlier incorrect post. Not even a "IMO" or cheeky smiley face needed

 

I'm sorry you have that problem, it CERTAINLY isn't the case here! And to call my post incorrect, you're wrong on that point. I am giving HONEST feedback about my personal experiences. My PN took me on a small jaunt the other day too...down several back (as in dirt country) roads, all along a major city and everything in between...you know what, not a mistake made then either. Is that the case every time?? NO. Was that the case with the Garmin? Yep, saw many misguided directions as well as a few correct routes.

 

I can tell you the roads here line up quite nicely, they're not over 100' as anoter posted. If it were like that in your area, I too would complain, but I find it odd that the OP who stated the routing was basically junk has some users near him who have reported difering experiences than his. Now, if it were just me saying these things, fine. It's not. Seems some experience good results when others don't...maybe it's not the maps?

 

As for CN...yep, that's what I used in my OR. If you'd like, you could re-visit old threads and see how my experiences with that went. Or, you can believe that I find both CN and T8 to be comparable...for my area and everywhere else I've visited!

 

No, not a single smilie or IMO here either. I can say it with just as stright a face as you, my friend!

 

So, maybe it's YOU that posted incorrectly? ETA...I do love how the Garmin loyalists paint a beautiful, life is peachy picture when talking about their routing. I wnder what happened to fair and balanced...full disclosure?? Let's get real OK?

Edited September 22, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

[+Rockin Roddy]

Being a Garmin user and Love my garmins very much. BUt To do paper less I carry 2 GPS with me all the time My NUVI to do my road and GPSMAP 60CSx. I dont like that to do Road route I have to spend another $100 bucks.

 

BUt If I knew then what I know NOW. I would have been all over the PN-40. I have the PN-20 as a back up unit and it is a great little unit but I dont like how slow it is or I would be useing it as my main GPS especially for when I go caching on my Scooter. For the money I would look at Delorme PN- series They are very good units. I am considering getting rid of my Garmin 60 to go with a PN-40 next year.

 

Good luck on your Purchase.

 

As an owner of quite a few gps units, to include the PN-40, I myself don't consider the PN-40 to be of any value for road routing. The map quality is hit and miss, depending on area, and in many of the areas where it's bad, it's off by so much the GPS can't figure out what road you're on so it can't route you. Route calculation is only so so at best, and can be downright awful quite often. If you deviate off route, it calculates so slow that it often can't re-calculate unless you stop. You're much better off going the two unit route like you're currently following, or getting a handheld unit that has decent street maps available for it, and the capability to actually utilize that data.

 

Back to the original topic, what things besides geocaching do you think you might be interested in using a GSP unit for? Do you golf? Are you a hiker? Do you venture into unknown areas often and maybe desire some vehicle navigation capability? Do the discussions on paperless caching interest you? GPS units are great tools, and like most tools, tend to be somewhat specialized. Some tools try to do it all, but are generally less than spectacular for most. Knowing what exactly you intend to do has a lot to do with making good recommendations.

 

My point was not at all about giving up my Nuvi for routeing. Believe me that has its flaws also. I will not give up my Nuvi for Routing in the car. What I would give up is haveing to Carry 2 GPS on my Scooter. I have had more than one time that it has started raining on me while Out caching on the scooter and have had to put my Nuvi AWAY to avoid destroying it. My PN-20 does a Fair Job of routing it is just slow. I feel that the PN-40 would do a good job for what I want it to do. Which is doing a bit of Routing While Geocaching.

 

I do as well, my friend!! I feel quite confident you'll be pleased with your decision...whatever that may be. If you go with the PN, remember you do have the choice of returning it within a 30 day period with no questions asked!! Since you have the PN-20, I'm sure you know what to expect!

Edited September 22, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

[NordicMan]

Sorry but, it's funny to read a lot of mentions of "Nuvi's" being an example of a decent device for automotive navigation.. better than outdoor handhelds.

 

..you do know GARMIN makes the Nuvi, right? You know, the same company that makes the Colorado/Oregon/Dakota/Etrex/60CSx. All those devices also will autoroute your car, with the difference being they aren't "talkers" and are purpose built rugged outdoor GPSr's that "also can navigate your car"

 

I've been using my Vista Cx for years to navigate my car as well as find my way around the woods, hunting, fishing, you name it! The thing works really well when navigating the car, just as well as my neighbors Nuvi (except mine doesn't talk lol)

 

It is 2009, ladies & gentlemen. There's no reason an "outdoor capable" GPSr shouldn't be expected to auto-navigate with minimal fuss.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Sorry but, it's funny to read a lot of mentions of "Nuvi's" being an example of a decent device for automotive navigation.. better than outdoor handhelds.

 

..you do know GARMIN makes the Nuvi, right? You know, the same company that makes the Colorado/Oregon/Dakota/Etrex/60CSx. All those devices also will autoroute your car, with the difference being they aren't "talkers" and are purpose built rugged outdoor GPSr's that "also can navigate your car"

 

I've been using my Vista Cx for years to navigate my car as well as find my way around the woods, hunting, fishing, you name it! The thing works really well when navigating the car, just as well as my neighbors Nuvi (except mine doesn't talk lol)

 

It is 2009, ladies & gentlemen. There's no reason an "outdoor capable" GPSr shouldn't be expected to auto-navigate with minimal fuss.

 

Yep, understood. And, along that line, THANKFULLY I can route just fine with my PN. Old ORANGE really is a sweet little serious tool! It's just too bad those Garmin handhelds were better suited for my usage and actually worked as well as some would lead you to believe, otherwise everyone would be using them...huh! Also, too bad they weren't better priced and you didn't have to buy maps for them...

[robertlipe]

It is 2009, ladies & gentlemen. There's no reason an "outdoor capable" GPSr shouldn't be expected to auto-navigate with minimal fuss.

 

I'm with you in principle. I've certainly navigated thousands of miles with a handheld. But a large, bright, touch screen and a spoken voice as well as features like "find restaurants along the current route" really are handy. Some recognize spoken commands, some use a remote control, etc. It's not just gadgety, they really do fill that niche better.

[+user13371]

...It's just too bad those Garmin handhelds were better suited for my usage and actually worked as well as some would lead you to believe, otherwise everyone would be using them...huh! Also, too bad they weren't better priced and you didn't have to buy maps for them...

Um, right...

 

Source data from http://www.geocaching.com/reviews/gps

 

Combined total of Delorme PN-20, PN-30, and PN-40s reported as owned by GC.com users: 4573.

 

Total number of a few selected Garmin units:

- Colorado 300... 6957

- Colorado 400T.. 3298

- eTrex Legend.. 12675

- Vista HCX..... 13272

- GPS 60csx..... 25078

And some other brand:

- iPhone 3G... 13683

- iPhone 3GS... 4445

A couple of notes:

 

1) GC.com's review page reports 212 different models for Garmin and 10 for DeLorme, so what I posted above is just a small fraction of Garmin's geocaching market share but the majority of DeLorme's.

 

2) The iPhone 3GS is more expensive to buy and use than most of the GPSRs under discussion, and has only been available for a few months. Yet nearly as many Geocachers already claim to have one of those than all of the DeLorme PN series combined. The iPhone 3G has been out longer, and in spite of its high cost it already outnumbers the much more modestly priced Garmin Vista HCX

 

Too bad you have to buy maps for some GPSRs, but price must not be the overriding consideration for a lot of folks.

Edited September 22, 2009 by lee_rimar

[+Searching_ut]

Sorry but, it's funny to read a lot of mentions of "Nuvi's" being an example of a decent device for automotive navigation.. better than outdoor handhelds.

 

..you do know GARMIN makes the Nuvi, right? You know, the same company that makes the Colorado/Oregon/Dakota/Etrex/60CSx. All those devices also will autoroute your car, with the difference being they aren't "talkers" and are purpose built rugged outdoor GPSr's that "also can navigate your car"

 

I've been using my Vista Cx for years to navigate my car as well as find my way around the woods, hunting, fishing, you name it! The thing works really well when navigating the car, just as well as my neighbors Nuvi (except mine doesn't talk lol)

 

It is 2009, ladies & gentlemen. There's no reason an "outdoor capable" GPSr shouldn't be expected to auto-navigate with minimal fuss.

 

There are some slight differences sometimes in the routes the Garmin Handhelds take vs the NUVI's, but I agree, the basic routing is quite good, and the CN, or CN data on the 24k topos is probably the best overall quality road maps in the US right now. My Vista however is older than yours, and doesn't have expandable memory, so I'm quite limited in how much area you can load into it. That's the main reason I ended up upgrading this time around. For hiking, or road navigation I actually like my Vista better than my PN-40, but not as much as the Dakota. The Vista isn't as sweet for geocaching though if that's what I'm up to that day. There still is lots of room for improvement in making a One size fits all unit. I want the voice, traffic data, and all the other goodies of the nuvi combined with the functions and small handheld dakota package.

[+Damin69]

Sorry but, it's funny to read a lot of mentions of "Nuvi's" being an example of a decent device for automotive navigation.. better than outdoor handhelds.

 

..you do know GARMIN makes the Nuvi, right? You know, the same company that makes the Colorado/Oregon/Dakota/Etrex/60CSx. All those devices also will autoroute your car, with the difference being they aren't "talkers" and are purpose built rugged outdoor GPSr's that "also can navigate your car"

 

I've been using my Vista Cx for years to navigate my car as well as find my way around the woods, hunting, fishing, you name it! The thing works really well when navigating the car, just as well as my neighbors Nuvi (except mine doesn't talk lol)

 

It is 2009, ladies & gentlemen. There's no reason an "outdoor capable" GPSr shouldn't be expected to auto-navigate with minimal fuss.

Yup I know my $300 GPSmap 60csx will do auto Routing with a $100 add on map. I personally bought my NUVI before I got my handheld and before I learned about Geocaching. Which is why I use it for my road routing as well as my paperless with the nuvi macro on GSAK. So either I sell my 60 and pay another $300plus for one of the Garmin UNITS that does routing. Or spend $250ish plus change on a PN-40.

 

I took out a friends Colorado 400T a few weeks ago he has been a cacher for about 4-5 years with old blue etrex. He got the Colorado for Xmas and up until August had not figured out how to use it to cache could not get it to point to the cache like his Etrex did. I took it out did a bit of configureing and found 12 with it that day. But even though it did the Road routing and such ONE THING I COULD NOT stand with it was marking a way point entering the coord was the BIGEST pain in the ARSE.

 

Now I have said I already have the PN-20 and the keys are alot like using my 60 and as far as entering coords by hand on it It is actually alot easyer to do than on my 60.

 

Just my opinion but for the Money Delorme is on the right track on making a unit that is all around for Geocahing.

[+Chi-Town Cacher]

Okay, the pro-DeLorme folks are only giving you part of the story. There are plenty of detailed topo maps available for Garmin units for free (http://gpsfiledepot.com). With the latest firmware updates, the Oregon and Colorado series are looking very good indeed. And that highway routing in the DeLorme isn't the best in the world; if you want NAVTEQ quality data, you have to pay for it.

 

And many of us dislike DeLorme's Topo USA, finding it quite unintuitive.

 

Despite that, I'm a big fan of the PN-30/40. I just want to be sure you're getting a balanced perspective.

Wow, I thought I'd actually worked quite hard to list not just the pros of the PN series GPSr's, but also the cons. I haven't bothered to count the number of words for the pros and the number of words I typed for the cons of the Delorme GPSr's, but I thought it was about evenly split. I'm sorry that the "cons" of the unit really aren't all that impressive of a list.

 

So that would leave me to ask a question of the Garmin loyalists. My question is, if my post was so incredibly imbalanced and not fair enough in pointing out the cons of the Delorme PN GPSr's could you please provide a link to just one of your posts where you've actually discussed in detail any cons of a Garmin unit you are recommending? Now to keep it on equal footing as my post you have to show me where you discussed the cons before anybody either pointed them out or asked about them. Maybe you folks have been just as up front about Garmins as I was about the Delormes which I am a HUGE fan of, but if you have been then I have to tell you I've missed those posts.

 

......

Ok, it's now been I believe about 34 hours since I wrote the post above. So far I hear a lot of Delorme bashing going on, but not a single person has been able to provide a link to prove that my challenge in the 2nd paragraph of my post quoted above was wrong.

 

I guess that should tell folks something. Do you trust advice from folks that don't bother to give you the pros and cons? Or, do you trust somebody who did disclose not just the pros, but also dared to show the cons of the units he recommends and even after doing so still dares to declare even though it's not perfect he can still in good faith recommend it. I know I can sleep very peacefully tonight because I know I'm not withholding information from people asking for help.

 

To the OP or anybody else reading all the bickering I don't know what to tell you. I've been very up front and honest in my assesment and also about my own personal experieces. I just wish others would also be as open with the products they recommend.

 

Good luck in trying to dig any useful info out of these threads. It is there you'll just have to work harder to find it since some just come looking to disagree and argue. Happy caching!

[+Chi-Town Cacher]

Sorry but, it's funny to read a lot of mentions of "Nuvi's" being an example of a decent device for automotive navigation.. better than outdoor handhelds.

 

..you do know GARMIN makes the Nuvi, right? You know, the same company that makes the Colorado/Oregon/Dakota/Etrex/60CSx. All those devices also will autoroute your car, with the difference being they aren't "talkers" and are purpose built rugged outdoor GPSr's that "also can navigate your car"

 

I've been using my Vista Cx for years to navigate my car as well as find my way around the woods, hunting, fishing, you name it! The thing works really well when navigating the car, just as well as my neighbors Nuvi (except mine doesn't talk lol)

 

It is 2009, ladies & gentlemen. There's no reason an "outdoor capable" GPSr shouldn't be expected to auto-navigate with minimal fuss.

Yup I know my $300 GPSmap 60csx will do auto Routing with a $100 add on map. I personally bought my NUVI before I got my handheld and before I learned about Geocaching. Which is why I use it for my road routing as well as my paperless with the nuvi macro on GSAK. So either I sell my 60 and pay another $300plus for one of the Garmin UNITS that does routing. Or spend $250ish plus change on a PN-40.

 

I took out a friends Colorado 400T a few weeks ago he has been a cacher for about 4-5 years with old blue etrex. He got the Colorado for Xmas and up until August had not figured out how to use it to cache could not get it to point to the cache like his Etrex did. I took it out did a bit of configureing and found 12 with it that day. But even though it did the Road routing and such ONE THING I COULD NOT stand with it was marking a way point entering the coord was the BIGEST pain in the ARSE.

 

Now I have said I already have the PN-20 and the keys are alot like using my 60 and as far as entering coords by hand on it It is actually alot easyer to do than on my 60.

 

Just my opinion but for the Money Delorme is on the right track on making a unit that is all around for Geocahing.

For geocaching I can honestly say the Delorme PN-30s and 40s are really awesome little caching machines. I'm sure if you get one you'll really like it too. It not only is a pretty powerful tool, but it really is a pretty darned easy GPSr to learn and operate. I'd say it's right up there in difficulty as the Garmin and Magellans that I owned prior to upgrading to my PN-40. Yeah, like any tech toy there are times it's not fun learning, but it really is no harder to learn than any other unit.

[+user13371]

...CN data on the 24k topos is probably the best overall quality road maps in the US right now.

Now you must be kidding, or perhaps limiting your comparisons too narrowly (e.g. best road maps available for weatherproofed handheld GPS?)

 

Better than Navigon? TomTom? Google Maps and OpenStreetMap? What details are you comparing?

Edited September 23, 2009 by lee_rimar

[+Searching_ut]

Okay, the pro-DeLorme folks are only giving you part of the story. There are plenty of detailed topo maps available for Garmin units for free (http://gpsfiledepot.com). With the latest firmware updates, the Oregon and Colorado series are looking very good indeed. And that highway routing in the DeLorme isn't the best in the world; if you want NAVTEQ quality data, you have to pay for it.

 

And many of us dislike DeLorme's Topo USA, finding it quite unintuitive.

 

Despite that, I'm a big fan of the PN-30/40. I just want to be sure you're getting a balanced perspective.

Wow, I thought I'd actually worked quite hard to list not just the pros of the PN series GPSr's, but also the cons. I haven't bothered to count the number of words for the pros and the number of words I typed for the cons of the Delorme GPSr's, but I thought it was about evenly split. I'm sorry that the "cons" of the unit really aren't all that impressive of a list.

 

So that would leave me to ask a question of the Garmin loyalists. My question is, if my post was so incredibly imbalanced and not fair enough in pointing out the cons of the Delorme PN GPSr's could you please provide a link to just one of your posts where you've actually discussed in detail any cons of a Garmin unit you are recommending? Now to keep it on equal footing as my post you have to show me where you discussed the cons before anybody either pointed them out or asked about them. Maybe you folks have been just as up front about Garmins as I was about the Delormes which I am a HUGE fan of, but if you have been then I have to tell you I've missed those posts.

 

......

Ok, it's now been I believe about 34 hours since I wrote the post above. So far I hear a lot of Delorme bashing going on, but not a single person has been able to provide a link to prove that my challenge in the 2nd paragraph of my post quoted above was wrong.

 

I guess that should tell folks something. Do you trust advice from folks that don't bother to give you the pros and cons? Or, do you trust somebody who did disclose not just the pros, but also dared to show the cons of the units he recommends and even after doing so still dares to declare even though it's not perfect he can still in good faith recommend it. I know I can sleep very peacefully tonight because I know I'm not withholding information from people asking for help.

 

To the OP or anybody else reading all the bickering I don't know what to tell you. I've been very up front and honest in my assesment and also about my own personal experieces. I just wish others would also be as open with the products they recommend.

 

Good luck in trying to dig any useful info out of these threads. It is there you'll just have to work harder to find it since some just come looking to disagree and argue. Happy caching!

 

If you're looking for pro's and cons, feel free to look at the stuff I put out comparing my PN-40 to my Dakota. I called them as I see um there, pro's and cons alike. Unlike many here, I bought, payed for out of pocket, and have available to me mulitple different units. If I thought the PN-40 was that great, it's the one I would grab when I head out the door. As it is, I haven't given it away, but I prefer different units in most situations. Unlike many, if asked, I'll post examples where measureable showing what I see, why that which bothers me does so. For the most part, I don't even try to get into the "Which should I buy" discussions, except when I start seeing what I consider wildly exaggerated stuff, which from what I've observed tends to occur more with the PN-40 than most other units, which isn't really fair for those with limited budgets looking to get the unit that will work best for them in the sort of conditions they'll use it in.

 

For those with exceptionally strong opinions on any specific unit. Do you actually have, own and compare side by side? What sorts of maps and mapping software do you have, and how do you use your map? How much do you travel, and in what sorts of areas? To give good advice, you've got to understand the differences in how terrain, vegetation etc. cause variation in behavior, and how maps vary in quality by region, topography etc.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Okay, the pro-DeLorme folks are only giving you part of the story. There are plenty of detailed topo maps available for Garmin units for free (http://gpsfiledepot.com). With the latest firmware updates, the Oregon and Colorado series are looking very good indeed. And that highway routing in the DeLorme isn't the best in the world; if you want NAVTEQ quality data, you have to pay for it.

 

And many of us dislike DeLorme's Topo USA, finding it quite unintuitive.

 

Despite that, I'm a big fan of the PN-30/40. I just want to be sure you're getting a balanced perspective.

Wow, I thought I'd actually worked quite hard to list not just the pros of the PN series GPSr's, but also the cons. I haven't bothered to count the number of words for the pros and the number of words I typed for the cons of the Delorme GPSr's, but I thought it was about evenly split. I'm sorry that the "cons" of the unit really aren't all that impressive of a list.

 

So that would leave me to ask a question of the Garmin loyalists. My question is, if my post was so incredibly imbalanced and not fair enough in pointing out the cons of the Delorme PN GPSr's could you please provide a link to just one of your posts where you've actually discussed in detail any cons of a Garmin unit you are recommending? Now to keep it on equal footing as my post you have to show me where you discussed the cons before anybody either pointed them out or asked about them. Maybe you folks have been just as up front about Garmins as I was about the Delormes which I am a HUGE fan of, but if you have been then I have to tell you I've missed those posts.

 

......

Ok, it's now been I believe about 34 hours since I wrote the post above. So far I hear a lot of Delorme bashing going on, but not a single person has been able to provide a link to prove that my challenge in the 2nd paragraph of my post quoted above was wrong.

 

I guess that should tell folks something. Do you trust advice from folks that don't bother to give you the pros and cons? Or, do you trust somebody who did disclose not just the pros, but also dared to show the cons of the units he recommends and even after doing so still dares to declare even though it's not perfect he can still in good faith recommend it. I know I can sleep very peacefully tonight because I know I'm not withholding information from people asking for help.

 

To the OP or anybody else reading all the bickering I don't know what to tell you. I've been very up front and honest in my assesment and also about my own personal experieces. I just wish others would also be as open with the products they recommend.

 

Good luck in trying to dig any useful info out of these threads. It is there you'll just have to work harder to find it since some just come looking to disagree and argue. Happy caching!

 

If you're looking for pro's and cons, feel free to look at the stuff I put out comparing my PN-40 to my Dakota. I called them as I see um there, pro's and cons alike. Unlike many here, I bought, payed for out of pocket, and have available to me mulitple different units. If I thought the PN-40 was that great, it's the one I would grab when I head out the door. As it is, I haven't given it away, but I prefer different units in most situations. Unlike many, if asked, I'll post examples where measureable showing what I see, why that which bothers me does so. For the most part, I don't even try to get into the "Which should I buy" discussions, except when I start seeing what I consider wildly exaggerated stuff, which from what I've observed tends to occur more with the PN-40 than most other units, which isn't really fair for those with limited budgets looking to get the unit that will work best for them in the sort of conditions they'll use it in.

 

For those with exceptionally strong opinions on any specific unit. Do you actually have, own and compare side by side? What sorts of maps and mapping software do you have, and how do you use your map? How much do you travel, and in what sorts of areas? To give good advice, you've got to understand the differences in how terrain, vegetation etc. cause variation in behavior, and how maps vary in quality by region, topography etc.

 

That's odd since I've seen some of the more exaggerated posts coming from you, especially about the routing. You also claim the PN series is bad for tracking while several others (who have made side-by-side comparisons) seem to indicate otherwise. In fact, aside from another poster who seems to like to make some crazy claims and even do some very "lopsided" research (say for instance, telling us that Garmin must be better because they've sold more units than DeLorme...well DUH. Let's see, DeLorme only markets to the USA?? DeLorme has been around a fraction of the time Garmin has...very scientific research there ), I find I have to come in and respond to more of your posts than most others.

 

Comparing units for how YOU use it, knowing you don't use it primarily for caching, isn't helpful to those who are asking about a CACHING GPS. I believe everyone here will agree that there's a tool for every use and some tools can be used for more than one task but no unit is perfect or even suited for everyone....and OBVIOUSLY, the PN isn't your cup of tea. That doesn't mean it's not a great tool for those looking for a caching unit! You obviously know your electronics, but your reportings seem a bit biased to me....the bias being toward your usage.

 

I love that a relatively newb poster and owner of the PN has come in and stated his displeasure in the CO (especially for CACHING)...how difficult it was to use etc. However, that poster backed what a few of us have said about the PN. I suppose he too is a fanboy and biased?

 

For those wondering, I have owned the OR 300 and own the PN-40. I bought the OR 300 when I accidentally left my beloved ORANGE on the hood of my Jeep, right before a caching trip. I used the OR 300 in the presence of another OR owner who showed me a bit on how to use it, but still, even with my continual toying with it, couldn't get it to work as I had heard it would. I sent the OR 300 back as defective due to the compass and accuacy issues not indicative of proper function. During the time I used that unit, I was increasingly upset when trying to figure out how to use it (NOT due to suspected defective workings), so much so that I commented to my son that I'd love to smash it against a wall and then again under the tires of my Jeep. My son, about as unbiased as you can get (he just cares if we are directed to the right location without doing the drunken bee dance), announced the OR was JUNK (but some of that was due to the suspected defective workings). Now, I NEVER had the urge to smash my PN, never got that upset while learning to use it...telling, isn't it? Also, some will say I tried to learn the OR 300 on the fly...that's EXACTLY the same way I learned to use my PN-40! Some will even tell you I wasn't smart enough to figure out how to get the OR 300 set up properly...if it's THAT hard to figure out, why do some of those same people who told me that (not smart enough to set it up properly) also claim the PN is hard to use (or used to until we finally got through that it's not, they then moved on to claiming the T8 is hard to learn...more BUNK).

[+user13371]

aside from another poster who seems to like to make some crazy claims and even do some very "lopsided" research (say for instance, telling us that Garmin must be better because they've sold more units than DeLorme...

Roddy, again you have a most selective way of reading. And though you yourself repeatedly say you are "technically illiterate" and that you "could be wrong about this, but..." you seem to have a hard time accepting it when people offer corrections or any information that you don't like.

 

In post 56, you suggested that if Garmin units worked as well as folks say they did, everybody would be using them. And you said it was too bad that they weren't priced better, and that you had to pay extra for maps.

 

In post 58, I replied that this actually seems to be the case -- not necessarily that Garmin units are better, but that more geocachers use them than anything else, regardless of pricing and map availability. In fact, there are INDIVIDUAL Garmin models that have only been available for a couple of years that more geocachers use than all DeLorme, Magellan, and Lowrance units combined. I've gone into more detail about that in another thread.

 

That is not "bashing" DeLorme, nor is it a "crazy claim" - it's a simple numeric fact about what most people on GC.com have, offered in response to something you originally said in post 56.

 

Note that early on in this thread, I also recommended a PN-30 or -40 to the OP, and stood by that recommendation -- because it's a great GEOCACHING unit. But to be fair and balanced, and to avoid raising unreasonable expectations among prospective buyers -- I also acknowledge things that are not ideal about it.

 

To bring this back on topic:

 

1) The PN-30 and PN-40 are very good geocaching units. Advantages for geocaching are that they're accurate, have terrific paperless caching system, and the included streets+topo maps make them a bargain.

 

2) PN-series primary disadvantages are poor battery life, small screen, poor/outdated road maps, slow and inefficient auto-routing. Each of those weaknesses are relative to other models from competing vendors and may not matter to some buyers. If those details matter more than the PN-series strengths (a great Geocaching unit at a specific price point), then a buyer should consider models from other vendors.

 

3) To escape the partisan holy wars that constantly break out in the forums, prospective buyers should also look at product reviews at Amazon.com and also GC.com's review pages. These offer a wider range of opinions and information without the constant bickering.

Edited September 23, 2009 by lee_rimar

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

Okay, the pro-DeLorme folks are only giving you part of the story. There are plenty of detailed topo maps available for Garmin units for free (http://gpsfiledepot.com). With the latest firmware updates, the Oregon and Colorado series are looking very good indeed. And that highway routing in the DeLorme isn't the best in the world; if you want NAVTEQ quality data, you have to pay for it.

 

And many of us dislike DeLorme's Topo USA, finding it quite unintuitive.

 

Despite that, I'm a big fan of the PN-30/40. I just want to be sure you're getting a balanced perspective.

Wow, I thought I'd actually worked quite hard to list not just the pros of the PN series GPSr's, but also the cons. I haven't bothered to count the number of words for the pros and the number of words I typed for the cons of the Delorme GPSr's, but I thought it was about evenly split. I'm sorry that the "cons" of the unit really aren't all that impressive of a list.

 

So that would leave me to ask a question of the Garmin loyalists. My question is, if my post was so incredibly imbalanced and not fair enough in pointing out the cons of the Delorme PN GPSr's could you please provide a link to just one of your posts where you've actually discussed in detail any cons of a Garmin unit you are recommending? Now to keep it on equal footing as my post you have to show me where you discussed the cons before anybody either pointed them out or asked about them. Maybe you folks have been just as up front about Garmins as I was about the Delormes which I am a HUGE fan of, but if you have been then I have to tell you I've missed those posts.

 

......

Ok, it's now been I believe about 34 hours since I wrote the post above. So far I hear a lot of Delorme bashing going on, but not a single person has been able to provide a link to prove that my challenge in the 2nd paragraph of my post quoted above was wrong.

 

I guess that should tell folks something. Do you trust advice from folks that don't bother to give you the pros and cons? Or, do you trust somebody who did disclose not just the pros, but also dared to show the cons of the units he recommends and even after doing so still dares to declare even though it's not perfect he can still in good faith recommend it. I know I can sleep very peacefully tonight because I know I'm not withholding information from people asking for help.

 

To the OP or anybody else reading all the bickering I don't know what to tell you. I've been very up front and honest in my assesment and also about my own personal experieces. I just wish others would also be as open with the products they recommend.

 

Good luck in trying to dig any useful info out of these threads. It is there you'll just have to work harder to find it since some just come looking to disagree and argue. Happy caching!

 

Just look up nuvi 500/550 posts. I think you'll see that I said it's pretty weak. As I said earlier, I had this thread confused with another one, otherwise my quoted response would not have been so harsh. In my confusion, I missed your pros and cons. Please accept my apologies but understand that I don't have time to follow up on every challenge someone throws down.

[+Rockin Roddy]

aside from another poster who seems to like to make some crazy claims and even do some very "lopsided" research (say for instance, telling us that Garmin must be better because they've sold more units than DeLorme...

Roddy, again you have a most selective way of reading. And though you yourself repeatedly say you are "technically illiterate" and that you "could be wrong about this, but..." you seem to have a hard time accepting it when people offer corrections or any information that you don't like.

 

In post 56, you suggested that if Garmin units worked as well as folks say they did, everybody would be using them. And you said it was too bad that they weren't priced better, and that you had to pay extra for maps.

 

In post 58, I replied that this actually seems to be the case -- not necessarily that Garmin units are better, but that more geocachers use them than anything else, regardless of pricing and map availability. In fact, there are INDIVIDUAL Garmin models that have only been available for a couple of years that more geocachers use than all DeLorme, Magellan, and Lowrance units combined. I've gone into more detail about that in another thread.

 

That is not "bashing" DeLorme, nor is it a "crazy claim" - it's a simple numeric fact about what most people on GC.com have, offered in response to something you originally said in post 56.

 

Note that early on in this thread, I also recommended a PN-30 or -40 to the OP, and stood by that recommendation -- because it's a great GEOCACHING unit. But to be fair and balanced, and to avoid raising unreasonable expectations among prospective buyers -- I also acknowledge things that are not ideal about it.

 

To bring this back on topic:

 

1) The PN-30 and PN-40 are very good geocaching units. Advantages for geocaching are that they're accurate, have terrific paperless caching system, and the included streets+topo maps make them a bargain.

 

2) PN-series primary disadvantages are poor battery life, small screen, poor/outdated road maps, slow and inefficient auto-routing. Each of those weaknesses are relative to other models from competing vendors and may not matter to some buyers. If those details matter more than the PN-series strengths (a great Geocaching unit at a specific price point), then a buyer should consider models from other vendors.

 

3) To escape the partisan holy wars that constantly break out in the forums, prospective buyers should also look at product reviews at Amazon.com and also GC.com's review pages. These offer a wider range of opinions and information without the constant bickering.

 

Lee, this will be one of the RARE times I even acknowledge you here in the forums after your reporting my PM as if I was harassing you...for those who would like to know more on this, PM me, I promise I won't turn you in!

 

If you TRULY believe even a PORTION of that crud you pretend is a scientific and accurate attempt at research, you have issues. I LOVE how you conveniently omit the part of my quote which SHOOTS your whole rant here down, NICE!

 

In case you simply couldn't READ the words I put in my comment (beyond your rather convenient snippet), How many overseas buyer do you suppose DeLorme has? And why do you suppose that is? So, what do you suppose the majority overseas buys? And why do you suppose this is? You want to pretend your words are gospel, you might try selling it to someone not paying attention, I can see straight through your CRUD!

 

Not bashing? You make up a sampling which is OBVIOUSLY misleading and you try to tell us it wasn't an attempt to make it look like Garmin is better simply due to sales? Get real...PLEASE!

 

Another reason for more sales would be because of those who buy only what they know. Garmin has been around MUCH longer than DeLorme, so what do you think the majority of buyers KNOW by name? That's right, Garmin. You get people who have been Garmin loyalists since they bought their oh so beloved 60CSx telling new cachers to buy Garmin...mainly because most have never heard of any other besides maybe Magellan. Hey, for the longest time,Garmin was the ONLY true choice unless you wanted to take a chance on Magellan (which, as most of us know, was having major troubles up until just recently). Oh, but if you want another's view of your "research" please re-visit your own thread and see what another user had to say...anyone who doubts what I'm saying can do the same.

 

So, type up all the CRAZY research you please, I KNOW how you manipulate the stats and I CERTAINLY hope newbs read this and will then know as well! Maybe you should be concerned for YOUR OWN credibility?

 

Oh, and fair and balanced? You have continually displayed your displeasure for DeLorme even when telling people you like DeLorme.

 

And now, back to I'm done with you, sir! For everyone else out there, sorry for that outburst. I would have rather handled that with PM, but then I'd be "harassing". I truly dislike people pretending to be helpful when all they're doing is pulling the wool over your eyes!

[+Rockin Roddy]

 

Just look up nuvi 500/550 posts. I think you'll see that I said it's pretty weak. As I said earlier, I had this thread confused with another one, otherwise my quoted response would not have been so harsh. In my confusion, I missed your pros and cons. Please accept my apologies but understand that I don't have time to follow up on every challenge someone throws down.

 

So, you can't be bothered to actually READ the post you're going to rant against?

[+Rockin Roddy]

One last thing I would like to point out to others. Lee has complained a few times when I have suggested people research by reading the amazon.com reviews (hey, I believe I was the first to suggest this and still continue to suggest this often), yet you suggest this in your rant above?

 

Those of us who have truly tried being helpful HAVE asked prospective buyers to do their own research, we've asked you to do this often and usually point to amazon.com as a reliable source.

 

This is more of Lee trying to make it LOOK like he's "fair and balanced".

Edited September 23, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Whew!

[+Rockin Roddy]

Whew!

 

You said it, my friend!

[JDiablo]

Garmin has been around MUCH longer than DeLorme, so what do you think the majority of buyers KNOW by name? That's right, Garmin.

 

So, type up all the CRAZY research you please, I KNOW how you manipulate the stats and I CERTAINLY hope newbs read this and will then know as well! Maybe you should be concerned for YOUR OWN credibility?

DeLorme 1976

Garmin 1989

 

Just saying...

[+Rockin Roddy]

Garmin has been around MUCH longer than DeLorme, so what do you think the majority of buyers KNOW by name? That's right, Garmin.

 

So, type up all the CRAZY research you please, I KNOW how you manipulate the stats and I CERTAINLY hope newbs read this and will then know as well! Maybe you should be concerned for YOUR OWN credibility?

DeLorme 1976

Garmin 1989

 

Just saying...

 

Yep, DeLorme has made maps since waaay back then. Do you know when the first GPS was made by DeLorme?? Wasn't waaay back then, my friend! Since we're not talking maps but actually talking about GPS units, this info is very very flawed.

 

Just saying...

 

So everyone knows, I am not msleading you here. Read when Garmin made their first GPS unit (1990) and their first handheld (1991) which was popular with troops. Now go back and read when DeLorme made their emergence into the GPS market (1995). However, that wasn't a handheld unit, it was a car-nav (if I'm reading the history correctly). I believe their first handheld came out in 2007?

 

In short, Garmin has been making handhelds much longer than DeLorme. Garmin is the name most of us would know instantly, unlike DeLorme. I'm fairly confident this will change in the very near future though!

Edited September 23, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

[+Chi-Town Cacher]

I know we're really going off into the weeds at times and I apologize to the OP for that. I would like to add one more little tidbit and then I'm through with this thread unless somebody else tacks on a question like what's a good GPSr for geocaching. Then sorry folks, but I'll probably be back on singing my praises of the Delorme PN series.

 

My last point is when I started reading up on the Delormes on the Technology forum I'd never once even considered buying a Delorme GPSr and had almost no knowledge about them except that in the GPSr arena they were the unknown new kids on the block. After doing LOTS of reading, a lot of it pro Delorme and lots of opinions against Delorme I decided the Delorme was probably the best fit for my needs and desires and I shelled out what for me is some serious money and got my Delorme PN-40.

 

There are a few folks on this forum that really impressed me as knowledgable about the PN series and seemed to be giving fair and honest assesments of it's capability. The one thing that finally pushed me that last little bit I needed to commit to spending a decent chunk of change was Rockin Roddy's enthusiasm for the Delorme PN series. I can honestly say that so far I have never for a second regretted taking RR's advice and I've never habored even a moments ill feelings towards him or others that stood up for the PNs. With the investment I made being a sizeable one (by my standards) I can guarantee you that if the Delorme PN-40 hadn't been everything RR had said it would be I wouldn't be on here proclaiming my love for the PN-40. Instead I'd be on here badmouthing not only him, but his beloved Orange. The bottom line is for folks trying to decide if they should believe the oh so enthusiastic declarations of RR I say believe him, you won't be sorry. Of course regardless of what brand you buy make sure to save the receipt and all boxes, because if you do find out you made a bad choice all reputable sellers will accept returns.

 

Good day everybody!

[+user13371]

...Lee has complained a few times when I have suggested people research by reading the amazon.com reviews (hey, I believe I was the first to suggest this and still continue to suggest this often)...

Please cite an example. I've been advising people to check Amazon.com reviews (rather than relying on what's in these forums) for a long, long time...

 

---edit to add:

 

I just looked this one up: In posts #10 and #11 of THIS THREAD back in August, you argued the exact opposite of what you said above. You thought Groundspeak forums were the best place to get reviews and I explained why I thouoght Amazon was a better reference source.

Edited September 23, 2009 by lee_rimar

[+Searching_ut]

Okay, the pro-DeLorme folks are only giving you part of the story. There are plenty of detailed topo maps available for Garmin units for free (http://gpsfiledepot.com). With the latest firmware updates, the Oregon and Colorado series are looking very good indeed. And that highway routing in the DeLorme isn't the best in the world; if you want NAVTEQ quality data, you have to pay for it.

 

And many of us dislike DeLorme's Topo USA, finding it quite unintuitive.

 

Despite that, I'm a big fan of the PN-30/40. I just want to be sure you're getting a balanced perspective.

Wow, I thought I'd actually worked quite hard to list not just the pros of the PN series GPSr's, but also the cons. I haven't bothered to count the number of words for the pros and the number of words I typed for the cons of the Delorme GPSr's, but I thought it was about evenly split. I'm sorry that the "cons" of the unit really aren't all that impressive of a list.

 

So that would leave me to ask a question of the Garmin loyalists. My question is, if my post was so incredibly imbalanced and not fair enough in pointing out the cons of the Delorme PN GPSr's could you please provide a link to just one of your posts where you've actually discussed in detail any cons of a Garmin unit you are recommending? Now to keep it on equal footing as my post you have to show me where you discussed the cons before anybody either pointed them out or asked about them. Maybe you folks have been just as up front about Garmins as I was about the Delormes which I am a HUGE fan of, but if you have been then I have to tell you I've missed those posts.

 

......

Ok, it's now been I believe about 34 hours since I wrote the post above. So far I hear a lot of Delorme bashing going on, but not a single person has been able to provide a link to prove that my challenge in the 2nd paragraph of my post quoted above was wrong.

 

I guess that should tell folks something. Do you trust advice from folks that don't bother to give you the pros and cons? Or, do you trust somebody who did disclose not just the pros, but also dared to show the cons of the units he recommends and even after doing so still dares to declare even though it's not perfect he can still in good faith recommend it. I know I can sleep very peacefully tonight because I know I'm not withholding information from people asking for help.

 

To the OP or anybody else reading all the bickering I don't know what to tell you. I've been very up front and honest in my assesment and also about my own personal experieces. I just wish others would also be as open with the products they recommend.

 

Good luck in trying to dig any useful info out of these threads. It is there you'll just have to work harder to find it since some just come looking to disagree and argue. Happy caching!

 

If you're looking for pro's and cons, feel free to look at the stuff I put out comparing my PN-40 to my Dakota. I called them as I see um there, pro's and cons alike. Unlike many here, I bought, payed for out of pocket, and have available to me mulitple different units. If I thought the PN-40 was that great, it's the one I would grab when I head out the door. As it is, I haven't given it away, but I prefer different units in most situations. Unlike many, if asked, I'll post examples where measureable showing what I see, why that which bothers me does so. For the most part, I don't even try to get into the "Which should I buy" discussions, except when I start seeing what I consider wildly exaggerated stuff, which from what I've observed tends to occur more with the PN-40 than most other units, which isn't really fair for those with limited budgets looking to get the unit that will work best for them in the sort of conditions they'll use it in.

 

For those with exceptionally strong opinions on any specific unit. Do you actually have, own and compare side by side? What sorts of maps and mapping software do you have, and how do you use your map? How much do you travel, and in what sorts of areas? To give good advice, you've got to understand the differences in how terrain, vegetation etc. cause variation in behavior, and how maps vary in quality by region, topography etc.

 

That's odd since I've seen some of the more exaggerated posts coming from you, especially about the routing. You also claim the PN series is bad for tracking while several others (who have made side-by-side comparisons) seem to indicate otherwise. In fact, aside from another poster who seems to like to make some crazy claims and even do some very "lopsided" research (say for instance, telling us that Garmin must be better because they've sold more units than DeLorme...well DUH. Let's see, DeLorme only markets to the USA?? DeLorme has been around a fraction of the time Garmin has...very scientific research there ), I find I have to come in and respond to more of your posts than most others.

 

Comparing units for how YOU use it, knowing you don't use it primarily for caching, isn't helpful to those who are asking about a CACHING GPS. I believe everyone here will agree that there's a tool for every use and some tools can be used for more than one task but no unit is perfect or even suited for everyone....and OBVIOUSLY, the PN isn't your cup of tea. That doesn't mean it's not a great tool for those looking for a caching unit! You obviously know your electronics, but your reportings seem a bit biased to me....the bias being toward your usage.

 

I love that a relatively newb poster and owner of the PN has come in and stated his displeasure in the CO (especially for CACHING)...how difficult it was to use etc. However, that poster backed what a few of us have said about the PN. I suppose he too is a fanboy and biased?

 

For those wondering, I have owned the OR 300 and own the PN-40. I bought the OR 300 when I accidentally left my beloved ORANGE on the hood of my Jeep, right before a caching trip. I used the OR 300 in the presence of another OR owner who showed me a bit on how to use it, but still, even with my continual toying with it, couldn't get it to work as I had heard it would. I sent the OR 300 back as defective due to the compass and accuacy issues not indicative of proper function. During the time I used that unit, I was increasingly upset when trying to figure out how to use it (NOT due to suspected defective workings), so much so that I commented to my son that I'd love to smash it against a wall and then again under the tires of my Jeep. My son, about as unbiased as you can get (he just cares if we are directed to the right location without doing the drunken bee dance), announced the OR was JUNK (but some of that was due to the suspected defective workings). Now, I NEVER had the urge to smash my PN, never got that upset while learning to use it...telling, isn't it? Also, some will say I tried to learn the OR 300 on the fly...that's EXACTLY the same way I learned to use my PN-40! Some will even tell you I wasn't smart enough to figure out how to get the OR 300 set up properly...if it's THAT hard to figure out, why do some of those same people who told me that (not smart enough to set it up properly) also claim the PN is hard to use (or used to until we finally got through that it's not, they then moved on to claiming the T8 is hard to learn...more BUNK).

 

Roddy, I kind of hate to debate your points, because you seem to be taking it a little personal. Just remember, I wouldn't mind sharing a beer or two with you, just disagree with your "Passion" on "Some" things.

 

I didn't claim the PN- was bad for tracking, but I don't find it to never loose lock, or suffer accuracy issues as you've often claimed. Go back and look at my comparisons. I showed it does nice accurate tracks in good conditions, suffers some in others, and considered it to be very comperable to other modern units. You seem to take my not thinking it's better as a slam on the unit. I looked, I compared, and I tried to quantify to the extent possible. Remember, GPS units have this great little function called a track log where it saves data for you regarding where it thinks it is, altitude etc. It makes it very easy to quantify what is going on with the unit at intervals you select. By the way, I'd be quite interested in seeing your results if you could run two units side by side. I think you might even surprise yourself if you get out and try to measure and quantify your results rather than just go by perception.

 

Regarding the maps/routing, take the time to try and see what others are pointing out. Wander out into a lot of different areas, see how the map accuracy issues really mess with routing/navigation in those areas, and run the side by sides to see how nice it is to have data on where you can and can't turn left, abiltiy to rapidly re-route, stuff like that. Once you've used good road navigation units, it's hard and extremely frustrating to try and use the PN-40 to get places. I've got a lot of different mapping products, and even have a copy of Delorme TOPO going back to version 2. I still think it ranks at the bottom of the pack for mapping products.

 

Anyway, just remember, we're only talking about tools here, please don't feel it's a battle.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Since none of this lovely repartee is likely to give anyone any actual "GPS buying help" maybe you guys could help everyone out but just giving it a rest for a while.

 

Seriously.

[+Rockin Roddy]

 

Roddy, I kind of hate to debate your points, because you seem to be taking it a little personal. Just remember, I wouldn't mind sharing a beer or two with you, just disagree with your "Passion" on "Some" things.

 

I didn't claim the PN- was bad for tracking, but I don't find it to never loose lock, or suffer accuracy issues as you've often claimed. Go back and look at my comparisons. I showed it does nice accurate tracks in good conditions, suffers some in others, and considered it to be very comperable to other modern units. You seem to take my not thinking it's better as a slam on the unit. I looked, I compared, and I tried to quantify to the extent possible. Remember, GPS units have this great little function called a track log where it saves data for you regarding where it thinks it is, altitude etc. It makes it very easy to quantify what is going on with the unit at intervals you select. By the way, I'd be quite interested in seeing your results if you could run two units side by side. I think you might even surprise yourself if you get out and try to measure and quantify your results rather than just go by perception.

 

Regarding the maps/routing, take the time to try and see what others are pointing out. Wander out into a lot of different areas, see how the map accuracy issues really mess with routing/navigation in those areas, and run the side by sides to see how nice it is to have data on where you can and can't turn left, abiltiy to rapidly re-route, stuff like that. Once you've used good road navigation units, it's hard and extremely frustrating to try and use the PN-40 to get places. I've got a lot of different mapping products, and even have a copy of Delorme TOPO going back to version 2. I still think it ranks at the bottom of the pack for mapping products.

 

Anyway, just remember, we're only talking about tools here, please don't feel it's a battle.

 

Likewise on the beer, my friend! Don't mistake my passion for anger!

 

It does upset me when people mislead, sometimes even appearing to be purposeful, not saying you have or do (purposely). At the end of the day, it matters not to me what the prospective buyer decides on as long as they're happy, so no, I don't take it personal. I do respond to a lot of your posts in defense of DeLorme, you often give the junk rating for routing...I might have mistaken you for someone else on the tracking or something?

 

I have used both the OR 300 and the PN for routing, not at the same time of course, but I do know the quickness of the calculations and I have seen the better information level you get from the OR, but as I have said before, my PN-40 does very well for routing, I am quite pleased with it. Yes, it's slow (almost too slow at times), yes recalc is slow and no, you don't get the info shot across your sceen, but you do get a turn-by-turn page which I don't recall seeing on the OR, I do use that from time to time. As I have posted many times, I used the OR to route me while on vacation awhile back, I relied on it and it did do fairly well. However, it had me trying to turn on the very same imaginary road my PN tells me to use when in that area. In fact, as I have stated before, the OR seemed to make quite a few mistakes including the sandpit encounter I have told of often. Around the home area, it made mistakes the PN hadn't (and in fairness, vice versa, but the OR made more mistakes), actual road choice seemed slightly less accurate than my experiences with my PN. Truly, as I have said many times, if routing was my biggest concern, a dedicated car-nav would be bought to use along with my PN. As I also stated, it's a shame the OR is so high priced and doesn't include maps...as well as not suit my desires, or I wouldn't be a DeLorme fan! Fortunately for me, DeLorme makes a great unit and offers it bundled with great maps for a really sweet price!

 

And now, this DeLorme Fanboy Club member (and PRESIDENT) is going to bed, it's been a very long and taxing day....

[JDiablo]

Since none of this lovely repartee is likely to give anyone any actual "GPS buying help" maybe you guys could help everyone out but just giving it a rest for a while.

 

Seriously.

As someone shopping for a new GPS I would have to agree. It's getting pretty useless reading all the posts.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

 

Roddy, I kind of hate to debate your points, because you seem to be taking it a little personal. Just remember, I wouldn't mind sharing a beer or two with you, just disagree with your "Passion" on "Some" things.

 

Well, if Roddy can't make it, I'll volunteer to fill in for him.

Second week of next September, in the Wolf Hole Mtn. area, about 30 miles south of St. George.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Since none of this lovely repartee is likely to give anyone any actual "GPS buying help" maybe you guys could help everyone out but just giving it a rest for a while.

 

Seriously.

As someone shopping for a new GPS I would have to agree. It's getting pretty useless reading all the posts.

 

Seriously?

 

Have you tried the pinned topics for a list of where to start? Have you seen where we've suggested looking through reviews on amazon.com? MAN, this subject has been covered soooo many times, finding info is pretty simple, I would even bet doing a search would yield some good results.

 

Or, have you a specific question??

[+Rockin Roddy]

 

Roddy, I kind of hate to debate your points, because you seem to be taking it a little personal. Just remember, I wouldn't mind sharing a beer or two with you, just disagree with your "Passion" on "Some" things.

 

Well, if Roddy can't make it, I'll volunteer to fill in for him.

Second week of next September, in the Wolf Hole Mtn. area, about 30 miles south of St. George.

 

I'll have to mark that on my calender, who know where I might be at that time, but would be great to meet some of you!

[+JetSkier]

I have used both the OR 300 and the PN for routing, not at the same time of course, but I do know the quickness of the calculations and I have seen the better information level you get from the OR, but as I have said before, my PN-40 does very well for routing, I am quite pleased with it. Yes, it's slow (almost too slow at times), yes recalc is slow and no, you don't get the info shot across your sceen, but you do get a turn-by-turn page which I don't recall seeing on the OR ...

You don't recall seeing that because you didn't have the unit long enough to really evaluate it. Just so people don't get mislead again, the OR does have a turn-by-turn page ... it's called "Active Route".

 

JetSkier

[Celestya22]

Wow. From the perspective of someone looking for a new handheld GPS for cachin, this really has been a great thread.. I'm personally just looking to get into this game and have been researching like crazy.

I've read Amazon, I've read the GPS reviews here, I've been to a number of other sites for reviews as well, including geocacher-u.com (that someone suggested in another thread). I've read a lot of posts in this forum too.

Thank you all for the informative posts. I could do without the bickering, but the info and honest opinions and suggestions are fantastic. Again, thank you.

[+Chi-Town Cacher]

Wow. From the perspective of someone looking for a new handheld GPS for cachin, this really has been a great thread.. I'm personally just looking to get into this game and have been researching like crazy.

I've read Amazon, I've read the GPS reviews here, I've been to a number of other sites for reviews as well, including geocacher-u.com (that someone suggested in another thread). I've read a lot of posts in this forum too.

Thank you all for the informative posts. I could do without the bickering, but the info and honest opinions and suggestions are fantastic. Again, thank you.

Hi. I don't know if my opinions were some that you were thanking folks for and it really doesn't matter one way or another, but I hate to see a thank you go unacknowldged so let me say you are very welcome. Yep, there's a fair amount of disagreeing that goes on sometimes, but as you've noticed there is info to be had if you don't mind doing some digging to find it. Good luck on finding the best GPSr to meet your specific needs!

[+TotemLake]

I could do without the bickering,

So can we all, but that's the nature of ownership. It's a Ford versus Chevy kinda thing.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

I could do without the bickering,

So can we all, but that's the nature of ownership. It's a Ford versus Chevy kinda thing.

...which goes with the territory.....

[+Searching_ut]

 

Roddy, I kind of hate to debate your points, because you seem to be taking it a little personal. Just remember, I wouldn't mind sharing a beer or two with you, just disagree with your "Passion" on "Some" things.

 

Well, if Roddy can't make it, I'll volunteer to fill in for him.

Second week of next September, in the Wolf Hole Mtn. area, about 30 miles south of St. George.

 

Hey, if you're serious, e-mail or PM me a few months out. My life is such I can't make long range commitments like that, but I think it would be fun. Looking at the profiles, it looks like Roddy and the Michigan Cache dude like Arizona, and might be bribed if enough cold brew was involved. I haven't explored much south of Saint George, and would love the opportunity.

 

If we all got together, we could scientifically test to see which is better. For user interface, I suggest bringing several newbies along. We'll set up a series of ice chest caches full of cold beer. To start, half will be given PN units, the other half Garmins. Once the GPS units have been handed out, someone who has consumed at least a 6 pack will take two minutes to explaing the operation of the unit. The newbies will then head out, finding and consuming the beers along the route. whoever makes it to the most ice chests obviously has the unit which is so easy even a newbie Drunk can use it. of course there might be a couple bugs to work out in this plan, such as what to do about the Delorme user who will inevitably get lost.......

[+Chi-Town Cacher]

 

Roddy, I kind of hate to debate your points, because you seem to be taking it a little personal. Just remember, I wouldn't mind sharing a beer or two with you, just disagree with your "Passion" on "Some" things.

 

Well, if Roddy can't make it, I'll volunteer to fill in for him.

Second week of next September, in the Wolf Hole Mtn. area, about 30 miles south of St. George.

 

Hey, if you're serious, e-mail or PM me a few months out. My life is such I can't make long range commitments like that, but I think it would be fun. Looking at the profiles, it looks like Roddy and the Michigan Cache dude like Arizona, and might be bribed if enough cold brew was involved. I haven't explored much south of Saint George, and would love the opportunity.

 

If we all got together, we could scientifically test to see which is better. For user interface, I suggest bringing several newbies along. We'll set up a series of ice chest caches full of cold beer. To start, half will be given PN units, the other half Garmins. Once the GPS units have been handed out, someone who has consumed at least a 6 pack will take two minutes to explaing the operation of the unit. The newbies will then head out, finding and consuming the beers along the route. whoever makes it to the most ice chests obviously has the unit which is so easy even a newbie Drunk can use it. of course there might be a couple bugs to work out in this plan, such as what to do about the Delorme user who will inevitably get lost.......

You said cold brews, I'm in! I like the sound of the competition I wouldn't mind being one of the "test subjects".

[JDiablo]

Since none of this lovely repartee is likely to give anyone any actual "GPS buying help" maybe you guys could help everyone out but just giving it a rest for a while.

 

Seriously.

As someone shopping for a new GPS I would have to agree. It's getting pretty useless reading all the posts.

 

Seriously?

 

Have you tried the pinned topics for a list of where to start? Have you seen where we've suggested looking through reviews on amazon.com? MAN, this subject has been covered soooo many times, finding info is pretty simple, I would even bet doing a search would yield some good results.

 

Or, have you a specific question??

1. Serious as a heart attack.

2. I read those threads and they all read pretty much the same "I got a free GPS from so and so, it's the best one on the planet! Everyone else's is inferior. If my gps can't do something right, then you don't really need to do that." Maybe it's been covered so many times that you are so bored, feel free not to read them and leave the rest of us who are looking alone.

3. My "specific question??" was posted in the thread I started and I would like to thank the "usual suspects" for not polluting that thread with their guerrilla sales tactics..

[JDiablo]

Garmin has been around MUCH longer than DeLorme, so what do you think the majority of buyers KNOW by name? That's right, Garmin.

 

So, type up all the CRAZY research you please, I KNOW how you manipulate the stats and I CERTAINLY hope newbs read this and will then know as well! Maybe you should be concerned for YOUR OWN credibility?

DeLorme 1976

Garmin 1989

 

Just saying...

 

Yep, DeLorme has made maps since waaay back then. Do you know when the first GPS was made by DeLorme?? Wasn't waaay back then, my friend! Since we're not talking maps but actually talking about GPS units, this info is very very flawed.

 

Just saying...

 

So everyone knows, I am not msleading you here. Read when Garmin made their first GPS unit (1990) and their first handheld (1991) which was popular with troops. Now go back and read when DeLorme made their emergence into the GPS market (1995). However, that wasn't a handheld unit, it was a car-nav (if I'm reading the history correctly). I believe their first handheld came out in 2007?

 

In short, Garmin has been making handhelds much longer than DeLorme. Garmin is the name most of us would know instantly, unlike DeLorme. I'm fairly confident this will change in the very near future though!

You said "Garmin has been around MUCH longer than DeLorme", nothing about making handheld GPS units at all. If you add that after the fact, then, my friend, it's after the fact. The best way to mean what you say is to say what you mean. If someone is expected to read between the lines, the meaning has the opportunity of being clouded.

 

edit to add: Just saying.

Edited September 25, 2009 by JDiablo