Suggested change for Bookmark List permissions

[+J-Way]

Right now, when you create/edit a bookmark list, there are three checkmarks below the description. Two of them control permissions (who can access or see the list):

 

[] I want to share this list with others

[] Make this list public (show on bookmarked listings)

[] Notify me when items on this list are logged

 

Checking none means you're the only one who can see the list. Checking the top one means that you can publish a link to the list (in logs, the forums, etc.), but it is not visible on the right side of the listed cache pages. Checking both the top and middle boxes make the list completely public, and it can be seen on the listed cache pages. I haven't been able to confirm whether checking only the middle box does anything or not (make the list public, but don't share it). It might send the website into an infinite loop and cause another fire, or it might do nothing.

 

I propose a simple change, specifically, replace the top two check boxes with three option buttons . You can only select one button at a time:

 

() Make this list Private

() Make this list Shared (visible from my profile, but not published on the listed cache pages)

() Make this list Public (visible from my profile and on listed cache pages)

 

[] Notify me when items on this list are logged

 

The top option (Private) can be used for lists like solved puzzles with spoilers, "To Do" lists, etc.

 

The middle button (Shared) can be used for lists where you want a few other people to have access, but they aren't useful to the general public. Things like a list of caches used to solve a "Challenge" cache (email the link to the challenge cache owner), a list of caches you want to attempt along with a friend (send a link to the friend), your personal FTF or DNF list, a list of caches where you were stung by a bee, or any list that does not contain private/spoiler info, but isn't really worthy general publication. No one wants these type of lists cluttering up cache descriptions.

 

The bottom button (Public) should be reserved for lists that are of interest to the general public. Caches you personally recommend as awesome, caches that you think should be avoided as a waste of time, caches in a specific geographic area (all caches along the Chattanooga Riverwalk or inside Griffith Park), caches that are handicap/wheelchair accessible, caches that are kid friendly, caches that are NOT kid friendly, all the caches in a series, lists of challenge caches, lists of the oldest caches, etc. Generally, any list that would be found useful by at least some of the people who see it next to the cache description.

 

[Edit]

Also, change the status column on your bookmark lists page (http://www.geocaching.com/bookmarks/) to read either "Private", "Shared", or "Public". As is it, "Shared" could mean "Shared" or "Public".

Edited August 6, 2009 by J-Way

[+L0ne.R]

Right now, when you create/edit a bookmark list, there are three checkmarks below the description. Two of them control permissions (who can access or see the list):

 

[] I want to share this list with others

[] Make this list public (show on bookmarked listings)

[] Notify me when items on this list are logged

 

Checking none means you're the only one who can see the list. Checking the top one means that you can publish a link to the list (in logs, the forums, etc.), but it is not visible on the right side of the listed cache pages. Checking both the top and middle boxes make the list completely public, and it can be seen on the listed cache pages. I haven't been able to confirm whether checking only the middle box does anything or not (make the list public, but don't share it). It might send the website into an infinite loop and cause another fire, or it might do nothing.

 

I propose a simple change, specifically, replace the top two check boxes with three option buttons . You can only select one button at a time:

 

() Make this list Private

() Make this list Shared (visible from my profile, but not published on the listed cache pages)

() Make this list Public (visible from my profile and on listed cache pages)

 

[] Notify me when items on this list are logged

 

The top option (Private) can be used for lists like solved puzzles with spoilers, "To Do" lists, etc.

 

The middle button (Shared) can be used for lists where you want a few other people to have access, but they aren't useful to the general public. Things like a list of caches used to solve a "Challenge" cache (email the link to the challenge cache owner), a list of caches you want to attempt along with a friend (send a link to the friend), your personal FTF or DNF list, a list of caches where you were stung by a bee, or any list that does not contain private/spoiler info, but isn't really worthy general publication. No one wants these type of lists cluttering up cache descriptions.

 

The bottom button (Public) should be reserved for lists that are of interest to the general public. Caches you personally recommend as awesome, caches that you think should be avoided as a waste of time, caches in a specific geographic area (all caches along the Chattanooga Riverwalk or inside Griffith Park), caches that are handicap/wheelchair accessible, caches that are kid friendly, caches that are NOT kid friendly, all the caches in a series, lists of challenge caches, lists of the oldest caches, etc. Generally, any list that would be found useful by at least some of the people who see it next to the cache description.

 

[Edit]

Also, change the status column on your bookmark lists page (http://www.geocaching.com/bookmarks/) to read either "Private", "Shared", or "Public". As is it, "Shared" could mean "Shared" or "Public".

 

Sounds good to me. I would especially find a Private list for puzzles very very useful.

[+J-Way]

Sounds good to me. I would especially find a Private list for puzzles very very useful.

You can do that now. Create a list and do not check any of the boxes. I have a private list of puzzles and I put the solution in the description so I don't have to keep up with scraps of paper.

 

My proposed change doesn't affect the function of anything. It just makes the permissions of Bookmark Lists easier to understand.

[+Corey]

This would make it much less confusing.

I have often wanted to make a bookmark list that was accessible from my Profile but not shown on cache pages. Maybe a 4th level would be necessary?

[+webscouter.]

This would make it much less confusing.

I have often wanted to make a bookmark list that was accessible from my Profile but not shown on cache pages. Maybe a 4th level would be necessary?

 

You can do this now. It would look like this

 

[X] I want to share this list with others

[ ] Make this list public (show on bookmarked listings)

[ ] Notify me when items on this list are logged

 

Then you can create a link to the bookmark list and give that out.

 

Edit to add, you will see the link on the cache page if you are logged in, just others won't see the link

Edited August 6, 2009 by webscouter.

[+L0ne.R]

Sounds good to me. I would especially find a Private list for puzzles very very useful.

You can do that now. Create a list and do not check any of the boxes. I have a private list of puzzles and I put the solution in the description so I don't have to keep up with scraps of paper.

 

My proposed change doesn't affect the function of anything. It just makes the permissions of Bookmark Lists easier to understand.

 

It sure does because I didn't understand that I could create a private list before your explanation. Thanks.

[+jcar]

 

() Make this list Private

() Make this list Shared (visible from my profile, but not published on the listed cache pages)

() Make this list Public (visible from my profile and on listed cache pages)

 

[] Notify me when items on this list are logged

 

 

So in the second options (Shared) would these show up on in the bookmark lists tab from your profile or you would just be able to link to them in your profile, like you can now?

 

I can almost see four options

- Private (puzzle solutions, etc.)

- Shareable (Email link to others or post link on profile. Caching trip planning.)

- Shared (Listed on your bookmark lists tab, but not on cache pages. Challenges.)

- Public (Shows on bookmark lists tab and on cache pages. Favorites, caches in a park, along a trail, etc.)

[+Corey]

I have often wanted to make a bookmark list that was accessible from my Profile but not shown on cache pages.

You can do this now. It would look like this

Yes, but I'd prefer for the site to index it for me...

 

I can almost see four options

- Private (puzzle solutions, etc.)

- Shareable (Email link to others or post link on profile. Caching trip planning.)

- Shared (Listed on your bookmark lists tab, but not on cache pages. Challenges.)

- Public (Shows on bookmark lists tab and on cache pages. Favorites, caches in a park, along a trail, etc.)

Exactly my thoughts.

[+paleolith]

Totally agree, would avoid confusion and forum threads ... long ago I started one to ask the meaning of shared.

 

Four states would be good, but just changing the wording with no change in function would help a lot.

 

I think many people don't use the "shared" state simply because of the poor wording, and that's why we see so many public bookmarks lists of people's challenge lists.

 

Edward

[+Lil Devil]

I can almost see four options

- Private (puzzle solutions, etc.)

- Shareable (Email link to others or post link on profile. Caching trip planning.)

- Shared (Listed on your bookmark lists tab, but not on cache pages. Challenges.)

- Public (Shows on bookmark lists tab and on cache pages. Favorites, caches in a park, along a trail, etc.)

As radio buttons, the above would go a long way towards clearing up the confusion in the existing options, and adding much-needed functionality.

[+J-Way]

To further demonstrate the confusion (or else demonstrate my intelligence level), in spite of all the checking I did before starting this thread I would have sworn that a "Shared" (not public) list DID appear on your profile. But apparently I was wrong. Anywho, I'd be happy with either of the options below using exclusive radio buttons, but honestly I don't think the 4th level of accessibility ("Shareable") is required:

 

O Private

O Shareable (Email link to others or post link on profile))

O Shared (Listed on your bookmark lists tab, but not on cache pages)

O Public (Shows on bookmark lists tab and on cache pages)

 

O Private

O Shared (Listed on your bookmark lists tab, but not on cache pages)

O Public (Shows on bookmark lists tab and on cache pages)

 

Note that the second option changes the "Shared" lists so that they are visible from a user's profile.

Edited August 11, 2009 by J-Way

[+paleolith]

honestly I don't think the 4th level of accessibility ("Shareable") is required

I suspect some people would object to removing the "shareable" state -- heck, any change results in some objections. I can see reasons -- suppose a small group is planning an expedition and wants to share a bookmark list for planning but doesn't want it visible to anyone else.

 

Anyway, the four-state solution should be easy enough to program. It requires the changes to the bookmark list edit page. It requires checking the selection logic for cache pages and the bookmark tab, though these might not require any changes. Most importantly, the way bookmark lists are displayed would not require any changes anywhere except for the wording of the state on the bookmark tab, which should simplify the change greatly. The only change would be that "shared on bookmark tab" caches would be displayed on, duh, the bookmark tab, with the proper sharing state label.

 

I just noticed another fairly serious problem. On the bookmarks tab, both shared and public lists are labeled just as Shared. This is very confusing. When you open one of the lists, the terminology is then either "shared" or "shared, public" or empty, instead of the shared, public, private used in other places. Combined with the checkboxes on the edit page, this means that the bookmark list state is labeled three different ways in the three places it's presented.

 

I'd say the most important thing is to make it consistent and to remove the confusion. It seems that some people (eg J-Way) want the "shared on bookmark tab" state, and it should be an easy addition with no conflicts that I can see.

 

Edward

[+tozainamboku]

It may make sense to redo the the permissions for bookmark lists so they are less confusing but the proposals being made are not as trivial as they seem at first. You really have two states: private and shared. A private bookmark list is visible to only the the owner. A shared bookmark list allows anyone with the URL of the list to see the list. Once the bookmark list is shared, it can be made "public". Right now this simply means that the a link is automatically put on the cache page of every cache in the list and the link is also put on the bookmark list owner's profile. You could separate these two "public" options but if you do you will soon want people to have some lists on only the cache page, some on only the profile page, and some on both.

Then what happens when Groundspeak provides a way to search "public" bookmark lists. Now you have a third option "searchable". Some may want their list to be searchable but not on the cache pages or may want to have their list on the cache page and searchable but not in their profile.

 

My vote is to keep it simple: A bookmark list is either private or shared. If it is shared then it can also be "public". Public means on the cache page, on your profile tab, and searchable (when this gets implemented). Since being public implies being shared, three radio buttons are sufficient.

( ) Private

( ) Shared

( ) Public (= Shared + links on the cache page and in your profile)

[+paleolith]

So basically you are saying to keep the functionality as it is, just improve the user interface. Which I think is fine. Improve the interface now and consider other changes later if there's really a need.

 

As for the analysis, I'd say there are two dimensions: accessibility and visibility.

 

Accessibility means who as allowed to view the page. Currently this only has two states: private (only the owner) and public (everyone, even non-members). I could imagine additional states: accessible to friends, accessible to members only, accessible to premium members only. However, I don't see any hue and cry for these additional states.

 

Visibility means where a link to the list appears. Currently this is either only on the owner's list of bookmark lists, or on both the owner's bookmarks tab and on caches. So this dimension is a set of flags: currently the two flags are "show on bookmark tab" and "show on cache page", and a third flag might be "show in search results". The request which started this thread was to enable the state "on bookmarks tab and not on caches". Extended visibility could be implemented by checkboxes.

 

But simplicity has a lot of value too. As a programmer, I tend to want to analyze and expose the available states. But also as a programmer, I want software to be usable, and I lean toward agreeing that the current three states are sufficient and that more would, on the average over all users, be more confusing than useful.

 

So it comes back to improving the UI as the main need.

 

Edward