Possible bad copy of City Navigator

[+F1sh]

Hello all,

 

I mentioned this in my other thread but I am fearful that the copy of City Navigator I bought off of eBay is going to be a 'pirated version'. The auction looked legitimate and I asked the seller before bidding if the item was new, as advertised. The thing that has me nervous is that after I paid, he sent me an email saying that the program was 'unlocked' and that I would not have to do anything else to activate it.

 

There seems to be a bit of a communication barrier and I don't want to jump to conclusions until I recieve the package, but I also want to be prepared in the even that I have to submit a claim to get my money back.

 

Would I be correct if I wrote that a pirated version of this program could lock up my gpsr, or at the very least, not work properly. Also, it would make me ineligable for any customer support from Garmin.

 

If I have to report this seller to eBay, and they leave negative feedback for me, is there a way to have that feedback removed from my score?

 

Thanks,

 

Chad

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Sounds like a pirated version. Because legitimate copies of City Navigator are not "unlocked". They come with a valid unlock code that can be used with a single, compatible GPS unit.

 

However, even a pirated version will no "lock up your gpsr". It will definitely make you ineligible for Garmin support for that map product.

[+bittsen]

Hello all,

 

I mentioned this in my other thread but I am fearful that the copy of City Navigator I bought off of eBay is going to be a 'pirated version'. The auction looked legitimate and I asked the seller before bidding if the item was new, as advertised. The thing that has me nervous is that after I paid, he sent me an email saying that the program was 'unlocked' and that I would not have to do anything else to activate it.

 

There seems to be a bit of a communication barrier and I don't want to jump to conclusions until I recieve the package, but I also want to be prepared in the even that I have to submit a claim to get my money back.

 

Would I be correct if I wrote that a pirated version of this program could lock up my gpsr, or at the very least, not work properly. Also, it would make me ineligable for any customer support from Garmin.

 

If I have to report this seller to eBay, and they leave negative feedback for me, is there a way to have that feedback removed from my score?

 

Thanks,

 

Chad

 

I sure hope you don't pay for a pirated version. Those are available free.

If you don't get Garmin support then it's pirated.

 

I would report the seller to Ebay. They have policies regarding retaliatory feedback.

[+coggins]

It's hard to correctly determine much with the limited information you have given. Maybe a link to the ebay listing? Was it a microSD card version or a DVD? You are right when you write "There seems to be a bit of a communication barrier".

[+F1sh]

I'm a little hesitant to link the auction just in case I am the one that is wrong about this. He sent me an email saying that the item has shipped. I am going to write him back and try and get some answers first. Maybe it is a legal copy and he just doesn't know about the registration number that is inside. (maybe that's wishful thinking)

 

Chad

 

Edit: oh, and it is the 2010 DVD version.

Edited July 9, 2009 by F1sh

[+2Wheel'in]

It is my understanding that the MicroSD Card version is not locked, and can be used in any Garmin GPS receiver that takes that format, and has AutoRouting capability. The DVD versions are locked, have to be unlocked and use the valid GPS receiver's ID number so that CN only works on that articular GPS receiver. Here's hoping your transaction is problem free after receipt. Please let us know how it works out.

 

Bill

[+F1sh]

He wrote back to me inisting that it was a legal map and that it doesn't require an activation code because he bought it through Garmin as an "unlimited lifetime map". I'm not sure if there is such a product or not, but I'm pretty sure that Garmin wouldn't be allowing him to sell the maps to other people and continue to use it himself.

 

All this software stuff is still pretty confusing to me. Once I get the item I will post the results here. Thanks for the help everyone,

 

Chad

[+BlueDeuce]

Like with City Select you can give the map to anyone but without an unlock code that is matched to your gps it's not going to work.

 

You have to have an UN-USED unlock code.

[robertlipe]

I have a feeling your suspicions are correct; you didn't buy what you thought you were buying. Whether you didn't know what you were buying or whether it was misrepresented is between teh two of you.

 

The NuMap program does offer a lifetime *update* to the maps for the GPS on which the update was was purchased. So if you buy city Nav or have a GPS with City Nav, you can buy NuMap and get lifetime updates *on that GPS*[1]. That update is definitely not to be unlocked to other GPSes.

 

A 'real' copy of City Nav will come on a Garmin DVD, have a serial number on the back, and will include a card (yellow, IIRC) with an unlock code. The update DVDs have a giant green sticker on the back with a product key.

 

Wait, you don't even HAVE the item?

 

[1] There's some weasel wording about the lifetime of the GPS or Garmin changing map vendors and some other stuff, but that's the simple version.

[+F1sh]

Here is the actual info that I copied and pasted (the format is a little messed up from copying). I couldnt see anything that made me think there was a problem.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Item Specifics - Item Condition

Condition: New

 

 

Brand : Garmin Device Type : Software

 

This translation is provided as a service. eBay cannot guarantee its accuracy. View Item Specifics in original language.

 

 

 

 

 

Travel North America & Mexico

With nearly 6 million points of interest and road coverage for the U.S., Canada, Puerto Rico and Mexico, City Navigator North America & Mexico 2010 delivers all the data you need to navigate North America & Mexico. City Navigator brings you the most detailed street maps available so you can navigate with exact, turn-by-turn directions to any address or intersection. You can also route to restaurants, gas stations, hotels, attractions and more. Powered by NAVTEQ, a world leader in premium-quality digital map data.

 

Displays nearly 6 million points of interest — hotels, restaurants, parking, entertainment, fuel, shopping and more.

Includes highways, interstates, business and residential roads in metropolitan and rural areas.

Includes detailed information such as turn restrictions, roundabout guidance, speed categories and other navigation features.

Gives turn-by-turn directions on your compatible Garmin device.

Includes postal code support for Canada.

Contains traffic data for compatible Garmin devices that use traffic receivers.

Enhances pronunciation data for compatible Garmin devices that speak street names (example: “Turn right on Main Street.”).

Navigate the streets in Mexico with confidence using City Select Mexico NT v10. With this detailed data, you can literally travel to a new city, look up hotels, restaurants, and other services, and use your compatible Garmin GPS to guide you there — without stopping for directions!

 

Pay with Only.

 

Minimum System Requirements

 

PC:

 

Windows® XP SP2 or newer

1 GB RAM

at least 1024 x 768 display

24-bit color monitor

2 GB free disk space

USB port

DVD drive

Mac:

 

Any Intel-based Mac or PowerPC G4 or later Mac

1 GB RAM

OS X 10.4 or later

1024 x 768 display

2 GB free disk space

USB port

DVD drive

Garmin City Navigator North America & MEXICO 2010

 

 

The image file does NOT need to be mounted, burned, or opened, Just copy to your garmin device or in the garmin FOLDER on the SD CARD.

 

Use the name: GMAPPROM.IMG for the Primary mapset

 

or rename to: GMAPSUPP.IMG for the second, and GMAPSUP2.IMG for the third mapset.

 

FREE SHIPPING WORLDWIDE.

 

Pay with Only.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

[+Team Veverca]

He is talking about an image file so that's fake. The original would be on an SD card or a DVD (as previous posters mentioned).

[robertlipe]

Bzzzzzt. Garmin never ships City Nav as .img files; City Nav .img files are the output of the selected "bonded" to each other and with the serial number of your receiver.

[+F1sh]

He is talking about an image file so that's fake. The original would be on an SD card or a DVD (as previous posters mentioned).

 

Crap. Well I guess the verdict is in. The auction had a photo from Garmin and it is being sent to me on a DVD so I thought it was OK. "Image file" sounded just as legit as the rest of the jargan and technical terms I have read on the forum

[jholly]

He is talking about an image file so that's fake. The original would be on an SD card or a DVD (as previous posters mentioned).

 

Crap. Well I guess the verdict is in. The auction had a photo from Garmin and it is being sent to me on a DVD so I thought it was OK. "Image file" sounded just as legit as the rest of the jargan and technical terms I have read on the forum

 

When you get it and confirm that it is bogus, I would file action with PayPal. I think I would also give Garmin some heads up.

 

Jim

[+F1sh]

Good advice. Thanks Jim

[+cummings66]

I've been looking at ebay lately due to this, it's amazing how brazen some of those guys are. It's obvious they're selling pirated software, I mean, asking for your unit ID at checkout. Come on, you can smell that one a mile off. I saw several like that. Or, used software, like that will work.

 

From what I can tell, I wouldn't touch any Garmin software on Ebay with a 10' pole. It's either more expensive than I can buy it for at my local Bass Pro shop or it's a scam.

[+coggins]

This ad? It's a pirate. Garmin doesn't sell CN-NA & CN-MX together, notice how Mexico isn't even on their coverage graphic? Better file with PayPal, ebay and your credit card ASAP.

[+F1sh]

This ad? It's a pirate. Garmin doesn't sell CN-NA & CN-MX together, notice how Mexico isn't even on their coverage graphic? Better file with PayPal, ebay and your credit card ASAP.

 

OUCH! You got it coggins.

I feel like an idiot. This is my first time being ripped off on eBay... of course this is the only time I have ever tried to buy software...

 

Chad

[+The Yinnies]

Hello all,

 

I mentioned this in my other thread but I am fearful that the copy of City Navigator I bought off of eBay is going to be a 'pirated version'. The auction looked legitimate and I asked the seller before bidding if the item was new, as advertised. The thing that has me nervous is that after I paid, he sent me an email saying that the program was 'unlocked' and that I would not have to do anything else to activate it.

 

There seems to be a bit of a communication barrier and I don't want to jump to conclusions until I recieve the package, but I also want to be prepared in the even that I have to submit a claim to get my money back.

 

Would I be correct if I wrote that a pirated version of this program could lock up my gpsr, or at the very least, not work properly. Also, it would make me ineligable for any customer support from Garmin.

 

If I have to report this seller to eBay, and they leave negative feedback for me, is there a way to have that feedback removed from my score?

 

Thanks,

 

Chad

As far as Ebay goes they(the seller) cannot leave you neg. feedback. If it is not legit report it to PayPAl and they will take care of it.

[+F1sh]

Well, the package arrived today and I was discouraged to see that it was in fact an image file burned onto plain DVD like what you would buy at Walmart. Further, the generic DVD case it came in did not even have a sleeve on it. I compared the "instructions" in a text file on the disk to the instructions on the download page at thepiratebay.net and found that they were word for word identical.

 

I have filed a claim with Paypal and will let you know how it goes. This whole thing has been a nightmare and I am having second thoughts about buying any software off eBay (I've never had a problem with any other type of item). Probably the worst thing about this is that it was a fellow Canadian that's doing this .

 

Chad

[+Chris CA]

Well, the package arrived today and I was discouraged to see that it was in fact an image file burned onto plain DVD like what you would buy at Walmart. Further, the generic DVD case it came in did not even have a sleeve on it. I compared the "instructions" in a text file on the disk to the instructions on the download page at thepiratebay.net and found that they were word for word identical.

 

I have filed a claim with Paypal and will let you know how it goes. This whole thing has been a nightmare and I am having second thoughts about buying any software off eBay (I've never had a problem with any other type of item). Probably the worst thing about this is that it was a fellow Canadian that's doing this .

 

Chad

You could also file a report here -> http://www.bsa.org/country/Report%20Piracy...y%20Online.aspx

[+coggins]

Probably the worst thing about this is that it was a fellow Canadian that's doing this .

Well, maybe the seller was a foreigner.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

He wrote back to me inisting that it was a legal map and that it doesn't require an activation code because he bought it through Garmin as an "unlimited lifetime map". I'm not sure if there is such a product or not, but I'm pretty sure that Garmin wouldn't be allowing him to sell the maps to other people and continue to use it himself.

 

All this software stuff is still pretty confusing to me. Once I get the item I will post the results here. Thanks for the help everyone,

 

Chad

In addition to what everyone else has said and what you have discovered, the "Lifetime Map Updates" available through Garmin are not transferable to another person nor to another GPS unit. So this is definitely a red flag.

 

You might want to pass a note on to Garmin as well.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Motorcycle_Mama

[+F1sh]

Well, I tried dispute resolution with the seller and he declined my request for a refund and added the following comments:

 

"This DVD is original, you accepted the terms on ebay.ca. read you, the description and the conditions. You paid for thelastest map of garmin,.. this DVD perfectly works, I've give you, all the indications for that it correctly works. don't try to reclame sometime, work perfectly."

7/13/2009 23:25 PDT - Seller: "This DVD is original, you accepted the terms on ebay.com. you read, the description and the conditions. You paid for the lastest map of garmin,.. this DVD perfectly works, I've give you, all the indications for that an it work."

 

I have escalated the issue to a PayPal claim, hopefully that will help.

 

Chad

[jholly]

Well, I tried dispute resolution with the seller and he declined my request for a refund and added the following comments:

 

"This DVD is original, you accepted the terms on ebay.ca. read you, the description and the conditions. You paid for thelastest map of garmin,.. this DVD perfectly works, I've give you, all the indications for that it correctly works. don't try to reclame sometime, work perfectly."

7/13/2009 23:25 PDT - Seller: "This DVD is original, you accepted the terms on ebay.com. you read, the description and the conditions. You paid for the lastest map of garmin,.. this DVD perfectly works, I've give you, all the indications for that an it work."

 

I have escalated the issue to a PayPal claim, hopefully that will help.

 

Chad

 

I would also contact Garmin and ask if this person is an authorized dealer and what he states is true.

 

As for the disc, every Garmin disk I have came in a plastic holder with a sleeve or in a cardboard holde with printing. Each disk has logo and other information printed on the disk with silk screen.

 

Probably won't help you, but I would also contact your local authorities and see about filing a fraud report.

 

Jim

Edited July 14, 2009 by jholly

[+F1sh]

The seller said he drives taxi for a living and that is why he has to have the "lifetime map updates". If he was an authorized dealer, the program probably wouldn't come on a generic DVD rw in a coverless case with now registration number or documentation. The clincher for me is when I looked on thepiratebay and saw the program for download with the exact same title, file size and type, and the exact same instructions (word for word).

 

I also left some feedback, warning other potential buyers.

 

Chad

 

It looks like he has pulled his other auctions... obviously he knows what he's doing is not allowed.

Edited July 14, 2009 by F1sh

[+talkytoaster]

I have escalated the issue to a PayPal claim, hopefully that will help.

I wish you the best of luck with that and trying to get eBay to do likewise.

 

My experience is that eBay offers more protection for the seller than the buyer, after all it is the sellers that make eBay money.

 

I tried to get a refund in a similar case (via PayPal) and even returned the item as instructed, only to have the seller refuse to accept it back (using recorded delivery). So, not only was I out of pocket for the goods that didn't work as advertised, I also paid for postage too.

 

I personally would never use eBay again. I'm sure there are some genuine good sellers on there, but the crooks are spoiling it for them.

[+Renegade Knight]

The seller said he drives taxi for a living and that is why he has to have the "lifetime map updates"....

 

Lets assume he's legit. If so he would be sending you the orginal DVD, and any update DVD's he's got. He would also contact Garmin to transfer the "unlock code" or whatever to you. As he can't do that since it's locked to the GPS he would aslo send you the GPS.

 

Failing that you have made your case.

 

You shoudl be able to confirm with Garmin how a legal transfer would work. That's the information you give PayPal and eBay.

 

eBay was quick enough to shut down my legitimate auction. They dang well better work with you on an actual case of piracy.

[+F1sh]

Thanks guys, good advice.

[+F1sh]

So the paypal dispute was escalated to a claim and the seller contacted me and offered a refund of all but the shipping cost. I'm thinking I should probably take it.

He had been telling me that he was not refunding anything and that I would have to claim it through Paypal, but after I told him that I had contacted Garmin's legal department, this offer showed up.

 

Thanks for your help everyone. This has been a real crash course for me. I used to know nothing about this program, and now I feel like I could spot a fake from a mile away.

 

Thanks again,

 

Chad

[+The Yinnies]

So the paypal dispute was escalated to a claim and the seller contacted me and offered a refund of all but the shipping cost. I'm thinking I should probably take it.

He had been telling me that he was not refunding anything and that I would have to claim it through Paypal, but after I told him that I had contacted Garmin's legal department, this offer showed up.

 

Thanks for your help everyone. This has been a real crash course for me. I used to know nothing about this program, and now I feel like I could spot a fake from a mile away.

 

Thanks again,

 

Chad

Do not take it. PayPal will check into it and you will get all your money back. It might take awhile. They will check into them and they might be in trouble, that is why they will refund now.

[+Team Veverca]

Do not take it. PayPal will check into it and you will get all your money back. It might take awhile. They will check into them and they might be in trouble, that is why they will refund now.

+1 to this suggestion. You'll get all your money back and please DO file a claim. I don't have anything against people that use pirated software on their devices because it their choice but selling the said software is wrong and should be severely punished.

 

P.S.: Also contact Garmin.

[jholly]

Some additional thoughts for you:

 

1. *ALL* Garmin DVD's install on a PC (or mac). They install mapsource and/or bootcamp in addition to the map product.

2. *ALL* Garmin DVD products install the maps to the GPS using mapsource or Bootcamp?. Not sure about Bootcamp because I have not used it. Locked maps *require* a unlock code to install on a given GPS. This is a Navteq license requirement. You don't copy a .img file.

3. *ALL* Gramin DVD products come in a jewel case with a printed sleeve or a cardboard sleeve that has logo and other information printed on the sleeve.

4. *ALL* Garmin DVD's have logo and other information silkscreened on the disk.

5. Lifetime map products are *locked* to a particular GPS.

 

I would tell this person that when the offer is the full refund of the product purchase *and* shipping you will consider the offer. Until then I would continue the escalation process and the contact with Garmins legal department. I would make this person understand that anything else than the *complete* refund of all money spent will not be considered. I would make it clear that if this person wants the pirated disk back until you receive a prepaid shipping container you will not return the disk. I would also state that any check or other instrument must be fully negotiated (i.e. the several week delay to clear your bank) before it is considered paid. I would check with paypal to make sure any refund via paypal can not be rescinded once it is made.

 

Jim

Edited July 14, 2009 by jholly

[+Renegade Knight]

So the paypal dispute was escalated to a claim and the seller contacted me and offered a refund of all but the shipping cost. I'm thinking I should probably take it. ...

 

For fraud he can spot you the shipping cost.

[+cummings66]

How was it shipped? If he was stupid which it sounds like he may have used the postal service. Big no no and the post office has forms for fraud that can be filled out.

 

If shipping was only a couple dollars I'd go for the deal just to get the money back quickly, but that's me.

[+F1sh]

Hey guys,

 

I wish that I had checked here first before I accepted his offer of a partial refund. Shipping was included in the cost of the auction but he subtracted $6 from the refund to cover that cost. I was tempted to hold out for the Paypal investigation but then I started to worry about what would happen if he just decided to quit using that account and opened another one under a different name or something. I decided to try and get something out of him while I could, and just counted the $6 as the cost of learning a lesson.

 

I left him some well-deserved negative feedback and by my estimate, he is probably out $13 for the cost of shipping, eBay fees, and Paypal fees. Plus, the seller is now missing one of the writable DVD's from his stack of 100 . I left a message for Garmin's legal department as well.

 

Thanks again,

 

Chad