Letterbox Hybrids

[+headshot119]

I've just been looking round my local area and I'm surprised that there's hardly any Letter box caches near me.

 

Why is it people don't seem to place them.

[Alan White]

My guess - and it is just a guess - is that LHs were introduced as an attempt to attract Letterboxers into Geocaching by providing the stamp which their hobby requires.

 

However, from a caching perspective there's nothing special about a LH. It's also a Trad, Multi or Mystery that also has a stamp. So people just place the more common types of cache, as the attempt I guessed at hasn't succeeded .

[+vw_k]

There's a simple way to get more letterbox hybrids in your area. Place some yourself

 

I like the fact that you can get a different icon for the find, and that you can hunt them using co-ords or sometimes by using letterbox type clues as well.

 

If you look at some logbooks in caches there are so many personal stamps and stickers they may as well be classed as a letterbox!

[+Delta68]

We've found five and set one.

By far the best we've found is GC136H4 Stagecoach Stash

 

It's really well thought out, original and the narrative is excellent.

 

It would be great to see more LBHs especially with this much effort put into them

 

 

M

[+careygang]

Perhaps the general feeling is that you need to be a 'letterboxer' yourself to place one?

[+Amberel]

I've just been looking round my local area and I'm surprised that there's hardly any Letter box caches near me.

 

Why is it people don't seem to place them.

I think I've only come across two in the course of my caching. One didn't need to be stamped as a logging requirement, so it wasn't any different to a normal cache for me, the other one did need to be stamped, so I didn't look for it (I don't have a stamp).

 

I think I would assume that they are only placed by people who play both games, and maybe there aren't many who do. If I'm right, maybe the question would be better phrased as "why don't people play both games".

 

Is there anything non-obvious about letterbox caches that is different from an ordinary cache that might make a non-letterboxer want to place one?

 

Rgds, Andy

[+spannerman]

I've just been looking round my local area and I'm surprised that there's hardly any Letter box caches near me.

 

Why is it people don't seem to place them.

I think I've only come across two in the course of my caching. One didn't need to be stamped as a logging requirement, so it wasn't any different to a normal cache for me, the other one did need to be stamped, so I didn't look for it (I don't have a stamp).

 

I think I would assume that they are only placed by people who play both games, and maybe there aren't many who do. If I'm right, maybe the question would be better phrased as "why don't people play both games".

 

Is there anything non-obvious about letterbox caches that is different from an ordinary cache that might make a non-letterboxer want to place one?

 

Rgds, Andy

 

I found this interesting because I do play both games and despite having set a few caches I have never even thought about placing a letterbox cache.

 

I know many letterboxers now use GPS but I still like the map and compass style of letterboxing so for me they are two different games. All the letterboxes I have out use at least three bearing points to pinpoint the box so I'm not sure how you could use that for a cache. It would also require the finder to have a decent sighting compass which are not cheap.

 

Maybe, as a letterboxer, I have a different perception of what a letterbox is. To me, it isn't a geocache with a stamp in the box but now after reading this post I am probably being too purist. The only way I could see to set a true hybrid would be to have a set of coordinates for the general area then bearings using compass for the final homing in. The only problem with that is that it would have to be classed as a puzzle cache and not a letterbox. Perhaps I have found the reason letterboxers don't place hybrids.

[+Morton]

The only way I could see to set a true hybrid would be to have a set of coordinates for the general area then bearings using compass for the final homing in. The only problem with that is that it would have to be classed as a puzzle cache and not a letterbox.

I don't think that would be allowed actually. From the listing guidelines: "GPS usage is an essential element of geocaching. Therefore, although it is possible to find a cache without a GPS, the option of using accurate GPS coordinates as an integral part of the cache hunt must be demonstrated for all physical cache submissions." Coordinates which just lead to the general area don't meet this criterion IMO.

 

The Stagecoach Stash cache quoted above meets the "integral GPS" rule by having a micro cache you need to find, using your GPS, first. It's quite a neat way of including both elements in one hunt, and maybe would help draw people across from one style to the other.

 

I've always imagined the idea behind a letterbox hybrid was "dual listing" - that you could provide separate letterbox-style instructions and geocache-style coordinates which led to the same box. But I'm guessing and could well be wrong.

 

Cheers

Richard

[+T.R.a.M.P.]

The only way I could see to set a true hybrid would be to have a set of coordinates for the general area then bearings using compass for the final homing in. The only problem with that is that it would have to be classed as a puzzle cache and not a letterbox.

I don't think that would be allowed actually. From the listing guidelines: "GPS usage is an essential element of geocaching. Therefore, although it is possible to find a cache without a GPS, the option of using accurate GPS coordinates as an integral part of the cache hunt must be demonstrated for all physical cache submissions." Coordinates which just lead to the general area don't meet this criterion IMO.

There is this one that was only set last August, so they are obviously allowed.

Cheers,

Trevor

[+spannerman]

I don't think that would be allowed actually. From the listing guidelines: "GPS usage is an essential element of geocaching. Therefore, although it is possible to find a cache without a GPS, the option of using accurate GPS coordinates as an integral part of the cache hunt must be demonstrated for all physical cache submissions." Coordinates which just lead to the general area don't meet this criterion IMO.

 

Yes, I would agree up to a point but I am thinking about night caches where you only get the starting coordinates then have to follow fire tacks to the cache. Would general area starting coordinates on a letterbox hybrid be classed as "an essential element" and if so, could it still be classed as a letterbox hybrid or would it have to be a mystery?

[+Delta68]

I confess that I know nothing about Letterboxing but simply based our LBH on the ones we'd found.

 

We decided it would be nice to set a circular walk and incorporate as many different cache types as possible

A trad, a multi, a mystery,a virtual (I requested YOSM to move to a trigpoint en route) and of course a Letterbox Hybrid. Basically you have to find a micro using GPS and then walk a certain distance in a certain direction to locate the cache. The path to follow is an old 'death road' which adds a bit of interest to the place.

 

I have no idea if any letterbox only letterboxers have done it...

 

 

(It was also nice to add an new icon to our caches owned portfolio of course )

 

 

M

[+Delta68]

Something I've thought about before is night caches where you follow a fire-tack trail.

These are not really pukka geocaches as you don't use a GPSr for the final location; the same goes for caches in tunnels.

 

These would perhaps make good letterbox hybrids

 

 

M

[+sTeamTraen]

The only problem with that is that it would have to be classed as a puzzle cache and not a letterbox. Perhaps I have found the reason letterboxers don't place hybrids.

If everything were restarted from scratch, Lettbox Hybrid would probably be an attribute ("has a stamp, letterboxers welcome"). As it is, "LH" status trumps "Trad/Multi/Mystery". In other words, an LH can be a Trad or a Multi or a Mystery, but once you put the stamp in it, it's an LH.

 

You also have to have a minimum amount of GPSr usage. If you want to recycle an existing letterbox description - for example, because you're cross-listing your letterbox as an LH - you have to modify it to include some GPSr usage. This could be an intermediate micro, or a projection like "347 metres on a bearing of 214 degrees" (but not "15 paces south-west"). And generally, finding the car park does not count as sufficient GPSr usage.

 

Night caches where you follow a firetack trail also need minimum GPSr usage. They shouldn't be published if the first tack is in the car park. (In any case, a much better night cache is made as a multi, with each firetack indicate the hiding place of a micro with the coordinates of the next. Almost all European night caches work like this.)

 

Tunnel caches... well, I guess if you use a GPSr to find the tunnel entrance, it's OK. Just. (GPSr usage is not necessarily required to find the final location; it just has to be involved. My rule of thumb is "if I discovered that I'd left the GPSr in the car, would I turn back to get it?" If the answer is "nah, we've got all the info we need here on the cache page", then there's not enough GPSr usage.)

 

In all these cases, quite a lot depends on your reviewer, especially when it comes to "enough GPSr usage". I suggest maintaining good relations with him or her.

Edited November 12, 2008 by sTeamTraen

[+spannerman]

"LH" status trumps "Trad/Multi/Mystery". In other words, an LH can be a Trad or a Multi or a Mystery, but once you put the stamp in it, it's an LH.

 

Thanks for the clarification, I had never read that before and knowing that, I may set some hybrids myself.

[+maxkim]

As I understand it the stamp is the important thing in one of these caches. Without it it would be a puzzle cache or similar. I have set one and without the stamp it would be an offset cache or puzzle as you need a compass and need to measure distances to navigate from the co-ords to the final cache site. They are great fun. Rodz in London has one where you also need to stamp the log with a stamp that clearly shows your cache name... That was a challenge. Cheers MaxKim

[+careygang]

We've done a couple of tunnel caches, both times the co-ords were for the actual location.

 

One was a old Victorian (or older) pedestrian tunnel about 50yds long and the micro was in the brickwork inside. I think it was in the lake District.

The other was a rail tunnel near Stoke on Trent, again the co-ords were along the tunnel, it was just that as you got to the entrance there was still several 100 ft to go!

 

Sorry, not exactly on topic,

[+Delta68]

We've done a couple of tunnel caches, both times the co-ords were for the actual location.

 

 

Yes, this has been the case on all the tunnel ones we've found as well - easy enough to set using Google Earth etc but not possible to find with a gps alone due to lack of signal

[+vw_k]

Tunnel caches... well, I guess if you use a GPSr to find the tunnel entrance, it's OK. Just. (GPSr usage is not necessarily required to find the final location; it just has to be involved. My rule of thumb is "if I discovered that I'd left the GPSr in the car, would I turn back to get it?" If the answer is "nah, we've got all the info we need here on the cache page", then there's not enough GPSr usage.)

 

In all these cases, quite a lot depends on your reviewer, especially when it comes to "enough GPSr usage". I suggest maintaining good relations with him or her.

 

I believe letterbox hybrids were created in the beginning to allow letterboxers to also find geocaches, back when there weren't many caches/cachers around. I always thought the idea was that seekers could choose wether to search for the cache using GPS or letterbox style clues.

 

I know of many caches that use the co-ords just for the car park and then rely on other techniques, letterbox style clues, fire tacks, map reading, waypoint projection etc etc and have found others just using the hint and local knowledge. Wether or not these caches have sufficient GPSr usage to be called a geocache doesn't bother me personally, I just like finding hidden stuff.

 

Following an arrow isn't the only way of finding a hidden sandwich box, I feel that these other types of caches offer some variety to the game, and having caches like these on gc.com is more convenient than having to search different listing sites for different types of challenge.

 

I like the idea of letterbox hybrids, and any cache that offers cachers the oppurtunity of learning new searching skills other than just tapping in 14 digits and following an LCD arrow.

 

On the subject of stamps, personal ones can be made by taking an ordinary pencil eraser (or a funny shaped one ) and carefully carving your name/initials/logo/whatever into it. Or interesting stamps or stamp kits are available from any good craft/stationary/scrapbooking shop so don't let that put you off (even though a stamp isn't usually a necessity anyway).

[Alan White]

On the subject of stamps, personal ones can be made by taking an ordinary pencil eraser (or a funny shaped one ) and carefully carving your name/initials/logo/whatever into it

We did that . We made it specifically for V is for Vows and haven't used it since.

[+headshot119]

Well I've just bought a pack of 40 assorted stamps of a well known auction site. So be on the look out for some new LH caches near Wrexham.