Monkeying Around in Wendover Woods (Bucks) Take 2

[+Simply Paul]

Ok, so I was being too commercial. Sorry to anyone who felt compelled to click on a link. I've requested the unpublished event cache listing is unarchived so I can amend it to better reflect Groundspeak's rules on c-content (not charity, the other c this time) but if that's not possible, I have a heavily edited duplicate page awaiting more information to ensure it'll not fall fowl (yuk yuk) of any new/new interpretations of GS rules again. I've put a lot of time and effort into the planning of this one so I'm keen to see an event in Wendover Woods on Sunday the 14th of September in one form, or more likely, another.

 

I'll post more information here as and when I get it and if you might be interested, please keep the 14th free in your caching diaries. Thanks

[Deceangi]

Please contact Groundspeak directly as requested to do so concerning the event, as they have decided that it is a commercial enterprise, the listing of a event there will have to have their approval. As this is beyond the remit of Volunteer Reviewers. The event submission was Archived on their instructions.

 

Deci

[+Simply Paul]

In the past (and I do so miss those days) I'd be told what the problem/s was/were and given the option to amend my cache listing to reflect the changes TPTB required to approve it. Now, I thought I'd made it clear on the page that any non-caching opportunities were optional and didn't constitute a part of the event but... etc. I was told I could contact appeals@geocaching.com but having seen how effective that is (I laughed on the inside) I think it'll be quicker and more effective to resubmit a totally new event page worded more carefully.

 

If there hadn't been a near identical event (or more) in the past -and I do know something approved in the past counts for nowt- I'd be more understanding of the 'issue' but when I've made the point several times on the cache page that there's no charge, nothing to buy, no pressure applied- well, it sort of makes me wonder why I'm bothering to try to put something back into caching when it would be so very much easier to be one of those who don't.

 

Anyway, I'm not ready to give up on this just yet so stay tuned. Oh, and September the 14th is a Sunday, if anyone was wandering.

[+The HERB5]

Oh, and September the 14th is a Sunday, if anyone was wandering.

Sunday is a day of rest, surely there's a rule for that

[dodgydaved]

Please contact Groundspeak directly as requested to do so concerning the event, as they have decided that it is a commercial enterprise, the listing of a event there will have to have their approval. As this is beyond the remit of Volunteer Reviewers. The event submission was Archived on their instructions.

 

Deci

 

 

Did you catch this post Deci?

[+Dorsetgal & GeoDog]

So how does a Go Ape cache bash with optional opportunity to Go Ape differ from an On the Piste event which has an optional toboggan run?

 

11. Cachers on the piste (Event Cache) (GC1EMHK) Location: East Midlands, United Kingdom (140.2mi N (225.6km N))

Date: 9/18/2008 by The Web Rat

[+Simply Paul]

So how does a Go Ape cache bash with optional opportunity to Go Ape differ from an On the Piste event which has an optional toboggan run?

 

11. Cachers on the piste (Event Cache) (GC1EMHK) Location: East Midlands, United Kingdom (140.2mi N (225.6km N))

Date: 9/18/2008 by The Web Rat

In some deeply meaningful way, I have no doubt. On the surface, sure, there doesn't seem to be much difference, but you can be certain that when one looks a little deeper at these two seemingly very similar ideas you'll see one involves an optional toboggan run, and the other one doesn't

 

Just to be clear, I have nothing at all against the above event or its organiser/s. Indeed, it sounds like a splendid idea.

[+The Hornet]

So how does a Go Ape cache bash with optional opportunity to Go Ape differ from an On the Piste event which has an optional toboggan run?

I don't suppose it's because Paul has got "form"?

[Deceangi]

Sorry but I've been extremely busy on several cache issues. I believe as I have pointed out on that forum, that since those events the guidelines have been tightened up by Groundspeak. Something which you personally are well aware of.

 

And has been pointed out it was Groundspeaks decision over this event, not a local Reviewer.

 

Because the event owner decided to copy and paste the full event description before either Graculus or myself had a chance to Review it, to this forum. There was no opportunity to work with the event owner to rectify issues. As the event owner is a very experienced extreme event organiser, this was hardly a simple inexperienced mistake.

[+Simply Paul]

I can see how all this is my fault. Somehow. Thanks for that.

 

Here's a crazy idea; perhaps I posted information for the proposed event under the impression that it wasn't commercial as there was no requirement to buy anything (not even a drink at a pub) or pay anything- not even for parking. From that standpoint... Hello, I've been here before.

[+Graculus]

I'd like to make a clarification about the archiving of the original 'Monkeying around cache':

Deceangi's statement that Groundspeak had told us to archive it was incorrect; this resulted from miscommunication between the two of us and Groundspeak during our conversations when we were discussing the listing. I actually archived it after these discussions with Deceangi and Groundspeak. The event cache listing breached the guidelines in several respects and even BEFORE it was reviewed for publication the owner had promoted it on these forums by copying the text and quoting the GC number. The UK team then decided to archive it immediately. The owner has the right to follow the appeals process.

 

Graculus

[+Simply Paul]

Earlier today I offered a significantly different cache event listing up for review as I felt this might prove faster and simpler than appealing, unarchiving and editing the old one. As yet I've heard nothing back but I'm sure it's being looked at. As soon as it's approved, or I'm given official (and preferably not conflicting) advice on any changes I need to make to get it approved, I make them, and it's approved, I'll add a link here. I have until Sunday to get this sorted out (as not to drop below the two week notice limit) and with the help of the volunteer reviewers I know it can be done.

[+Simply Paul]

Working on the principle that there's no such thing as bad publicity, Monkeying Around in Wendover Woods (Bucks) should be very well attended! My thanks go to Graculus for his patience and help in navigating the event-listing Ok/Not Ok minefield and for flexibility as far as Groundspeak would allow. I think the published version is as 'close to the limit' as I could expect to get.

 

I've been barking up the wrong tree, to mix my animal/forestry metaphors, anyway. Regardless of what may or may not make up a commercial location (pubs aren't, and camping even when there's a fee to camp isn't, and I'm glad of this) it does say in the guidelines: 'Additionally, links to businesses, commercial advertisers, charities, political or social agendas, or the inclusion of their associated logos are not permitted on cache descriptions without prior permission from Groundspeak.' This hasn't been applied overly vigorously in the past (see the link above to an event passed just a month ago for example) and hopefully won't be in the future; I was just very unlucky with my timing, and that my original proposal came to the attention of Groundspeak 'directly' rather than just the UK reviewers. Lesson learnt.

 

Now, that does say 'cache descriptions'. What about logs?

Edited August 30, 2008 by Simply Paul

[+Bear and Ragged]

What about logs?

 

Two ways to find out.

1 -Ask Groundspeak.

2 - Just do it.

 

(If we don't hear from you for three days, we know what you've done! )

[+Simply Paul]

This is an automated message from Geocaching

 

Your log entry for the listing Monkeying Around in Wendover Woods (Bucks) (Event Cache) was deleted by Michael at 9/2/2008 2:31:57 PM

 

Visit this listing at the below address:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...61-ed292d35b03a

 

Michael profile:

http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=04...33-2f797cee4ab9

That's that question answered then. There was no link in my note, just the offer of discount codes for 'an optional activity in the wood' and a reiteration that the event was free and open to all. No explanation of the reason for the deletion from Michael either but, even though the rules on what makes a commercial cache don't mention logs, and I didn't link to anything (I'd been warned not to), I'm prepared to have a guess as to what the problem was.

 

Edit: Graculus just emailed me with an explanation. I broke an unwritten rule. In contrast, have a look at what was fine in Spain on the 30th of August 2008, just 4 days ago... Aventura, tómbola i TB's. Weirdly, I expect to get into trouble for linking to one of Groundspeak's own cache listings on a Groundspeak forum. But I'm sure I'm just being paranoid

Edited September 2, 2008 by Simply Paul

[+mongoose39uk]

Is this still being dragged up

[+Simply Paul]

Is this still being dragged up

I prefer to think of it as highlighting an important issue which, in theory affects every cacher. If it's just me and these things aren't going to happen to anyone else then yes, I'm making a big fuss over 'nothing' and will continue to do so when swamped by GS-BS

 

Edited to add a smiley. Thus:

Edited September 2, 2008 by Simply Paul

[+mongoose39uk]

Is this still being dragged up

I prefer to think of it as highlighting an important issue which, in theory affects every cacher. If it's just me and these things aren't going to happen to anyone else then yes, I'm making a big fuss over 'nothing' and will continue to do so when swamped by GS-BS

 

Edited to add a smiley. Thus:

 

To be honest its already been sorted, talk to the reviewers and if they are concerned that there is a commercial aspect ask permission. So whats the big deal.

 

Move on

[+Simply Paul]

To be honest its already been sorted, talk to the reviewers and if they are concerned that there is a commercial aspect ask permission. So whats the big deal.

 

Move on

If by sorted you mean deleted, then yes, it has. As for asking reviewers where the line is I did, above: "Now, that does say 'cache descriptions'. What about logs? " I didn't receive any guidance (publicly would be the place, so others can also learn what is ok and what isn't) and my log was deleted for, to quote Graculus, "...because it specifically mentions the commercial event that you were asked not to include on the event page description.". I've now asked if being more vague about what I might have discount codes for would be ok. No feedback yet.

 

Oddly, the two word name of an organisation I don't want to name on this forum for fear of an official warning, but which did appear in the log, does appear on the cache page approved by Graculus. It's hard to know when you're going to break a rule which isn't in the guidelines and seems at odds with other 'guidelines'. I've also been warned that if it happens again the event could be retracted, which is a bit rough as I have no control over what others put in their Will Attend logs. I don't know what is ok to put in a log and what isn't, so I can't be expected to police them...

 

Keeping this on topic, it's going to be a wonderful day out in the woods, with me in a gorilla suit. There will be photos. Bring yourself, bring some drinks and some nibbles and bring your little mon- kids.

[+mongoose39uk]

 

Keeping this on topic, it's going to be a wonderful day out in the woods, with me in a gorilla suit. There will be photos. Bring yourself, bring some drinks and some nibbles and bring your little mon- kids.

 

Now that's much more positive

[+Happy Humphrey]

Edit: Graculus just emailed me with an explanation. I broke an unwritten rule. In contrast, have a look at what was fine in Spain on the 30th of August 2008, just 4 days ago... Aventura, tómbola i TB's. Weirdly, I expect to get into trouble for linking to one of Groundspeak's own cache listings on a Groundspeak forum. But I'm sure I'm just being paranoid

Ah - but that Spanish event was posted back in July. The unwritten rules have changed since then. Keep up, will you!

[+Dorsetgal & GeoDog]

The unwritten rules have changed since then. Keep up, will you!

 

This could be the basis of an interesting philosophical discussion ...

[+Bear and Ragged]

The unwritten rules have changed since then. Keep up, will you!

 

This could be the basis of an interesting philosophical discussion ...

 

It would. But you have to wait for the rules to change, so we can discuss it!

[+The Cache Hoppers]

The unwritten rules have changed since then. Keep up, will you!

 

This could be the basis of an interesting philosophical discussion ...

You is living in cloud cuckoo land Girlfriend!

[+Dorsetgal & GeoDog]

The unwritten rules have changed since then. Keep up, will you!

 

This could be the basis of an interesting philosophical discussion ...

You is living in cloud cuckoo land Girlfriend!

 

I know, but I is happy!

 

La la la, la la la la, la la la, la la la! (to the tune of the Banana Splits)!

[+The Cache Hoppers]

Well I is happy wiv ya - hang on .. does that contravene Forum Guidelines?

[+Simply Paul]

Bump time!

 

After all the fun and games, this event should be blessed with good weather and is on tomorrow, from 12pm til about 4pm. It'd be apeleasure to see you there

[+Simply Paul]

For those who missed this lark with bark, this tree teehee, here's a little YouTube video of my exploits. Thanks to nottheactor and Andybug for their excellent camera work

[+Sensei TSKC]

For those who missed this lark with bark, this tree teehee, here's a little YouTube video of my exploits. Thanks to nottheactor and Andybug for their excellent camera work

Isn't it funny how in the photos, it's seems so easy but when doing it 'in real time' and having it captured on video - it's so much harder.

 

I did the course earlier in the day and must say the experience is fantastic!

 

Great Event, photos and video.

 

Oss!

[big_bob]

Well I'm glad the "authorities" allowed you to publish your event in the end. It looked a lot of fun and you seemed to get good weather as a bonus. It shows that an event doesn't HAVE to be a group of people having a drink and a chat (not that there's anything wrong with that!).