Religious material in caches

[Mushtang]

KBI I admit that I have done that in the past and I'm sorry. I have not done it in a long time and I now just ignore all those caches. However, equating film cannisters with someone's God is an incredibly huge stretch unless those people are actually worshipping film cannisters. Tell me that you see the difference?

He wasn't equating the two. He was comparing the disrespect of one belief (a religion) to the disrespect of another belief (a game).

 

Tell me that you see the difference.

Yes I do see the difference. Disrespect of a game is completely different than disrespect of someone's religion.

How is it completely different? Disrespect is disrespect. The target is irrelevant.

 

However, if someone worships a game then they would be equally disrespectful.

I don't understand why somebody has to worship something for disrespect to become something that should be avoided.

 

Unlike you, I already apologized.

Apology accepted. What do I need to apologize for?

 

You really don't see any difference in severity of the infraction? If some kid at school disrespected your son's deepest beliefs versus your son's marble collection then you would see those as completely equal? If that is the case, then there is no point in even talking to you.

You're stuck on looking at the severity of the infraction. I'm trying to tell you that you can't run around disrespecting the way someone believes the game is fun and then demand that nobody disrespects something you feel is important, but they don't give two shakes about. The severity of the infraction is only lopsided in that direction to you. Someone else that feels concepts of fairness, personal responsibility, and respect for others’ rights is more important than some invisible friend you claim to have might feel you're the one going overboard.

 

It's like someone telling me I shouldn't ride my motorcycle because it's too dangerous while they're holding a lit cigarette in their mouth.

 

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone. I'm sure I read that somewhere.

Edited August 13, 2008 by Mushtang

[+TrailGators]

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone. I'm sure I read that somewhere.

It's good to see that some of the better religious "stuff" has made it through to you.

 

I'm far from perfect and it is definitely a journey. I already told you that I no longer diss people because of film cannisters hidden in parking lots. So it only seems fair that you and your brother follow suit and become more tactful when discussing sensitive subjects like this. Deal?

[Roadtorque]

KBI I admit that I have done that in the past and I'm sorry. I have not done it in a long time and I now just ignore all those caches. However, equating film cannisters with someone's God is an incredibly huge stretch unless those people are actually worshipping film cannisters. Tell me that you see the difference?

He wasn't equating the two. He was comparing the disrespect of one belief (a religion) to the disrespect of another belief (a game).

 

Tell me that you see the difference.

Yes I do see the difference. Disrespect of a game is completely different than disrespect of someone's religion.

How is it completely different? Disrespect is disrespect. The target is irrelevant.

 

However, if someone worships a game then they would be equally disrespectful.

I don't understand why somebody has to worship something for disrespect to become something that should be avoided.

 

Unlike you, I already apologized.

Apology accepted. What do I need to apologize for?

 

You really don't see any difference in severity of the infraction? If some kid at school disrespected your son's deepest beliefs versus your son's marble collection then you would see those as completely equal? If that is the case, then there is no point in even talking to you.

You're stuck on looking at the severity of the infraction, and I'm trying to tell you that you can't run around disrespecting the way someone believes the game is fun and then demand that nobody disrespect something you feel is important but they don't give two shakes about. The severity of the infraction is only lopsided in that direction to you. Someone else that feels that concepts of fairness, personal responsibility, and respect for others’ rights is more important that some invisible friend you claim to have might feel you're the one going overboard.

 

It's like someone telling me I shouldn't ride my motorcycle because it's too dangerous while they're holding a lit cigarette in their mouth.

 

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone. I'm sure I read that somewhere.

hmm it was said earlier that any one trying to offer advise like this is doubly rude and dilusional.

Edited August 13, 2008 by Roadtorque

[+Renegade Knight]

...Respect is in the intention, not the action....

Yes and no. Your flag burning example is a good one, but it falls short on one key point.

There is a perception as well. While you may mean no disrespect, if you are aware that the other person can percieve your statement/action as such and do it anyway, you are at a minimum disrespecting the person, and in so doing actually disrespecting their faith as well. Maybe it is in the intention after all.

 

I see this a lot in the larger debate that this thread is only one piece of.

I can't agree. If I burn a flag in a respectful way but TrailGators gets his shorts in a wad over it, you're suggesting that I've disrespected TrailGators?...

 

If you make a point to have TG present or make sure he knows you are burning flags just to bug TG. Yes. That's where the intent kicks in. If you are burning the flag with the boy scouts as part of their program to lay them to rest respectuflly, and a protestor comes up and claims to be offended. Your intent isn't to bug them. That's another thing.

Edited August 13, 2008 by Renegade Knight

[Roadtorque]

...Respect is in the intention, not the action....

Yes and no. Your flag burning example is a good one, but it falls short on one key point.

There is a perception as well. While you may mean no disrespect, if you are aware that the other person can percieve your statement/action as such and do it anyway, you are at a minimum disrespecting the person, and in so doing actually disrespecting their faith as well. Maybe it is in the intention after all.

 

I see this a lot in the larger debate that this thread is only one piece of.

I can't agree. If I burn a flag in a respectful way but TrailGators gets his shorts in a wad over it, you're suggesting that I've disrespected TrailGators?...

 

If you make a point to have TG present or make sure he knows you are burning flags just to bug TG. Yes. That's where the intent kicks in. If you are burning the flag with the boy scouts as part of their program to lay them to rest respectuflly, and a protestor comes up and claims to be offended. Your intent isn't to bug them. That's another thing.

 

I would agree that intent plays a part in it but still even the smallest boat in the biggest ocean wont sink unless it lets water inside. Today with so many extreme people with extreme ideas if you choose you can be offended with every turn of the head. I dont remember who said "He who chooses to be offended when no offense was intended is a fool. He who chooses to be offended when offense was intended is even a bigger fool" I couldn't agree more.

[+KBI]

When has it ever been agreed that we have a right not to have our feelings hurt? I never voted on that one.

[Mushtang]

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone. I'm sure I read that somewhere.

It's good to see that some of the better religious "stuff" has made it through to you.

 

I'm far from perfect and it is definitely a journey. I already told you that I no longer diss people because of film cannisters hidden in parking lots. So it only seems fair that you and your brother follow suit and become more tactful when discussing sensitive subjects like this. Deal?

I'm going to continue to give my opinions and viewpoints in the forums. I'll continue to not intend any disrespect. If you continue to choose to be offended anyway, that's out of my control.

 

Deal?

[+TrailGators]

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone. I'm sure I read that somewhere.

It's good to see that some of the better religious "stuff" has made it through to you.

 

I'm far from perfect and it is definitely a journey. I already told you that I no longer diss people because of film cannisters hidden in parking lots. So it only seems fair that you and your brother follow suit and become more tactful when discussing sensitive subjects like this. Deal?

I'm going to continue to give my opinions and viewpoints in the forums. I'll continue to not intend any disrespect. If you continue to choose to be offended anyway, that's out of my control.

 

Deal?

If someone tells you that saying something is disrespectful/offensive will you still keep saying it?

[+PokerPlayingEMT-&a-BookWormQueen]

We've seen religious pamphlets in caches but never gave it a second thought. We just ignore them and go about our business of signing the log and trading items.

Personally, we feel everyone has a right to their own beliefs and preferences...nobody has a right to push one belief or perception on another. We also believe that nobody has a right to get mad or upset with someone else for believing what they believe in. I (BookWormQueen) believe in Jesus Christ and God and am a member of a Protestant church, yet I have devout Atheists as friends, strong Catholics as friends...I care about the people, not their religious perceptions or beliefs...and I wouldn't dream of pushing my beliefs on them, nor would I expect them to do it to me. When we come across religious items in a cache, we leave them alone. Haven't come across anything yet that seems forceful or pushy in the religious or non-religious aspect (if that makes sense)...if we don't care for it, we ignore it.

[Mushtang]

...Respect is in the intention, not the action....

Yes and no. Your flag burning example is a good one, but it falls short on one key point.

There is a perception as well. While you may mean no disrespect, if you are aware that the other person can percieve your statement/action as such and do it anyway, you are at a minimum disrespecting the person, and in so doing actually disrespecting their faith as well. Maybe it is in the intention after all.

 

I see this a lot in the larger debate that this thread is only one piece of.

I can't agree. If I burn a flag in a respectful way but TrailGators gets his shorts in a wad over it, you're suggesting that I've disrespected TrailGators?...

 

If you make a point to have TG present or make sure he knows you are burning flags just to bug TG. Yes. That's where the intent kicks in. If you are burning the flag with the boy scouts as part of their program to lay them to rest respectuflly, and a protestor comes up and claims to be offended. Your intent isn't to bug them. That's another thing.

The two bolded statements seem to be in conflict. How can you be disrespecting the person in the first example, and not in the second?

 

I'd agree more with your second example. If you're not intending any disrespect, and someone chooses to be offended, that's out of your control and completely their problem.

[+KBI]

If someone tells you that saying something is disrespectful/offensive will you still keep saying it?

Ugh. Your post offends me. I would very much like you to respect my views and go back and delete it, please.

[Mushtang]

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone. I'm sure I read that somewhere.

It's good to see that some of the better religious "stuff" has made it through to you.

 

I'm far from perfect and it is definitely a journey. I already told you that I no longer diss people because of film cannisters hidden in parking lots. So it only seems fair that you and your brother follow suit and become more tactful when discussing sensitive subjects like this. Deal?

I'm going to continue to give my opinions and viewpoints in the forums. I'll continue to not intend any disrespect. If you continue to choose to be offended anyway, that's out of my control.

 

Deal?

If someone tells you that saying something is disrespectful/offensive will you still keep saying it?

If I didn't intend to disrespect/offend by saying it, and someone seems to be a little too sensitive, then I don't see why it should matter. How about you? If you found out any little thing you were posting was offensive to someone, would you stop?

 

What if someone joined the website today and started posting, and told you that your username was offensive to them because they'd had a foot bitten off by a gator one day while on a trail. Every time you posted they were offended. Would you be willing to stop posting, or go through the process to change your username, just to appease the sensitive person? Of course not, that would be ridiculous. I realize that's a pretty extreme example but it illustrates why my answer is yes, I'll keep saying something even if it offends someone.

 

As long as I'm not intending on being disrespectful I'm not going to change my behavior every time someone claims they've been rubbed the wrong way.

 

That doesn't mean they're not allowed to keep telling me that something I'm doing is offending them. I can decide to keep ignoring them or not.

Edited August 13, 2008 by Mushtang

[+KBI]

If someone tells you that saying something is disrespectful/offensive will you still keep saying it?

Ugh. Your post offends me. I would very much like you to respect my views and go back and delete it, please.

I repeat: Please go back and edit out (delete) your post. I find it to be offensive and disrespectful.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone. I'm sure I read that somewhere.

It's good to see that some of the better religious "stuff" has made it through to you.

 

I'm far from perfect and it is definitely a journey. I already told you that I no longer diss people because of film cannisters hidden in parking lots. So it only seems fair that you and your brother follow suit and become more tactful when discussing sensitive subjects like this. Deal?

I'm going to continue to give my opinions and viewpoints in the forums. I'll continue to not intend any disrespect. If you continue to choose to be offended anyway, that's out of my control.

 

Deal?

If someone tells you that saying something is disrespectful/offensive will you still keep saying it?

 

I know this question wasn't aimed at myself, but in a word... yes, I would. Just because someone finds offense in something I'm saying it doesn't mean what I'm saying is offensive. It's a difference of opinion obviously. It doesn't constitute intent.

 

A quick example for you. I was working on a computer that was not operating properly. It was working very slow and a bit odd. When someone asked me what was going on I replied that the computer was retarded. They were immediately offended and told me that was a repulsive word to use and that I should be more sensitive the the mentally impaired. I proceeded to ask them if they were themselves mentally impaired and how had I insulted them. They got even more upset and said that I was bigot. Now at this point I'm completely confused. I asked them if they knew the definition of either bigot or retarded at which point they left in a huff. For clarification, when I said the computer was retarded, it was exactly that it was running slow. By definition, to be retarded means to be slow. The computer was running slowly and/or being retarded by some unkown operational issue. Their assumption that I was making a stab at mental retardation or mental slowness was a leap all their own. Will I stop using the correct language because people make incorrect assumptions? No.

 

Someone found what I said to be offensive. Not because what I said WAS offensive, only that they believed it be so. Why should their lack of comprehension cause me to modify my behavior to compensate for their ignorance?

[+ReadyOrNot]

we feel everyone has a right to their own beliefs and preferences...nobody has a right to push one belief or perception on another. We also believe that nobody has a right to get mad or upset with someone else for believing what they believe in.

 

Ok... Let me see if I follow this...

 

1) EVERYONE has a right to their own beliefs and preferences

 

and then you continue on

 

2) Nobody has a right to push one belief or perception on another...

 

#2 is your belief that you are pushing on me!!!! You tell me I have a right to my own beliefs and then tell me what I can and can't do...

 

And then you continue to the whammy

 

3) Nobody has a right to get mad or upset with someone else for believing what they believe in.

 

So now I don't have a certain right according to you, which you just told me in #1 I have a right to...

 

I'm spinning....

[+TrailGators]

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone. I'm sure I read that somewhere.

It's good to see that some of the better religious "stuff" has made it through to you.

 

I'm far from perfect and it is definitely a journey. I already told you that I no longer diss people because of film cannisters hidden in parking lots. So it only seems fair that you and your brother follow suit and become more tactful when discussing sensitive subjects like this. Deal?

I'm going to continue to give my opinions and viewpoints in the forums. I'll continue to not intend any disrespect. If you continue to choose to be offended anyway, that's out of my control.

 

Deal?

If someone tells you that saying something is disrespectful/offensive will you still keep saying it?

If I didn't intend to disrespect/offend by saying it, and someone seems to be a little too sensitive, then I don't see why it should matter. How about you? If you found out any little thing you were posting was offensive to someone, would you stop?

 

What if someone joined the website today and started posting, and told you that your username was offensive to them because they'd had a foot bitten off by a gator one day while on a trail. Every time you posted they were offended. Would you be willing to stop posting, or go through the process to change your username, just to appease the sensitive person? Of course not, that would be ridiculous. I realize that's a pretty extreme example but it illustrates why my answer is yes, I'll keep saying something even if it offends someone.

 

As long as I'm not intending on being disrespectful I'm not going to change my behavior every time someone claims they've been rubbed the wrong way.

 

That doesn't mean they're not allowed to keep telling me that something I'm doing is offending them. I can decide to keep ignoring them or not.

So as long as you are ignorant and don't intend anything it's OK? When people make jokes about someone's religion they are being not too sensitive when they ask these people to knock it off. This is true especially when you consider that the jokes are completely irrelevant to the topic.

[+KBI]

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone. I'm sure I read that somewhere.

It's good to see that some of the better religious "stuff" has made it through to you.

How about this one: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

 

I know I read that one somewhere.

 

In other words, you cannot demand consideration for your sensitivities while ignoring the sensitivities of others.

 

I'm serious, TG. I'm going to have to insist that you go back and remove the contents of your offensive post, number 358. I find the contents of your post #358 to be offensive and disrespectful. It represents a system of thought that I cannot abide; it insults my own beliefs.

 

Go erase it now.

[+Cherokee Bill]

Am I the only one here, that finds it hard to believe that this thread is sill going on How many times do we need to beat a dead horse

 

Lets close the post and move on

[+Renegade Knight]

...I know this question wasn't aimed at myself, but in a word... yes, I would. Just because someone finds offense in something I'm saying it doesn't mean what I'm saying is offensive. It's a difference of opinion obviously. It doesn't constitute intent.

 

A quick example for you. I was working on a computer that was not operating properly. It was working very slow and a bit odd. When someone asked me what was going on I replied that the computer was retarded. They were immediately offended and told me that was a repulsive word to use and that I should be more sensitive the the mentally impaired. I proceeded to ask them if they were themselves mentally impaired and how had I insulted them. They got even more upset and said that I was bigot. Now at this point I'm completely confused. I asked them if they knew the definition of either bigot or retarded at which point they left in a huff. For clarification, when I said the computer was retarded, it was exactly that it was running slow. By definition, to be retarded means to be slow. The computer was running slowly and/or being retarded by some unkown operational issue. Their assumption that I was making a stab at mental retardation or mental slowness was a leap all their own. Will I stop using the correct language because people make incorrect assumptions? No. ....

 

You have a correct understanding of the word retarded. Its use to describe folks was actually wrong in most cases. Someone fully functional but with an IQ of 72 isn't retarded but someone who had the potential to have an IQ of 250 and who suffered a developmentmental problem only got 150 out of the deal is retarded. Oh well.

 

My entire point for this post was to point something out. It took me a long time to learn that even though I'm not an alcoholic and I’m not the one with the problem, not drinking around those who are is the right thing to do. There is a reason for that.

 

Some things run deeper than the use of a single word, or a single drink. Sometimes things are connected to something larger.

[+Renegade Knight]

If someone tells you that saying something is disrespectful/offensive will you still keep saying it?

Ugh. Your post offends me. I would very much like you to respect my views and go back and delete it, please.

I repeat: Please go back and edit out (delete) your post. I find it to be offensive and disrespectful.

Having learned your deep rooted beliefs conflict with that past post, I'm sure TG didn't repeat it. That's his point. Knowing your style, you are just blowing smoke.

[Mushtang]

As long as I'm not intending on being disrespectful I'm not going to change my behavior every time someone claims they've been rubbed the wrong way.

 

That doesn't mean they're not allowed to keep telling me that something I'm doing is offending them. I can decide to keep ignoring them or not.

So as long as you are ignorant and don't intend anything it's OK?

I'll assume you mean ignorant as in, "didn't know about", instead of "stupid". And knowing or not knowing has no effect. If you're offended by my use of the letter E I'm not going to stop using it even if you educate me that it offends you.

 

When people make jokes about someone's religion they are being not too sensitive when they ask these people to knock it off.

Making jokes about someone's religion seems like something where the intent would be to disrespect, and so I would agree that they shouldn't continue.

 

This is true especially when you consider that the jokes are completely irrelevant to the topic.

You, as one of the most prolific off topic posters here, seem to keep bringing this up so I'll go ahead and bite. Where is this joke that was made that is off topic that you seem to think was intended to show disrespect to your religion? I remember asking Mr. T if something he read in a tract was an old joke about the Pope. I hope me asking about a joke isn't what's offended you so badly. Or maybe I did actually tell the joke and my memory is going bad in my old age. Please quote the off topic joke since you keep bringing it up. Edited August 13, 2008 by Mushtang

[+KBI]

Knowing your style, you are just blowing smoke.

Are you suggesting that TrailGator's post does NOT offend me?

[+ReadyOrNot]

Knowing your style, you are just blowing smoke.

Are you suggesting that TrailGator's post does NOT offend me?

 

You are choosing to be offended by it. Its not TrailGator who offended you. You allowed yourself to be offended. Stop doing that!

[+Snoogans]

Am I the only one here, that finds it hard to believe that this thread is sill going on How many times do we need to beat a dead horse

 

Lets close the post and move on

 

I actually believe that is whyyy it's allowed to go on. This subject happens soooo often that maybe one big royal rumble will suffice for a year or so.

 

It has been entertaining for me and I actually agreed with flask once which like NEVER happens. FUN.

[+KBI]

Knowing your style, you are just blowing smoke.

Are you suggesting that TrailGator's post does NOT offend me?

You are choosing to be offended by it. Its not TrailGator who offended you. You allowed yourself to be offended. Stop doing that!

You have already stated your belief that I am merely trolling, that I have no real convictions, that I’m arguing just for the sake of arguing, and that I don’t truly believe anything I write.

 

Why, then, are you continuing to respond to me? What could possibly be the point? Don’t you realize what that makes you? What does that say about your own ability to think things through?

[+TrailGators]

When people make jokes about someone's religion they are being not too sensitive when they ask these people to knock it off.

Making jokes about someone's religion seems like something where the intent would be to disrespect, and so I would agree that they shouldn't continue.

We finally agree on something! Woo hoo!

[+wigglesworth]

in the beginning there was darkness - and for some they never saw the light!

[Mushtang]

When people make jokes about someone's religion they are being not too sensitive when they ask these people to knock it off.

Making jokes about someone's religion seems like something where the intent would be to disrespect, and so I would agree that they shouldn't continue.

We finally agree on something! Woo hoo!

That's it? What about the rest of the post? When you ignore part of my posts it offends me, please reply to the rest.

 

Thanks.

[+ReadyOrNot]

Knowing your style, you are just blowing smoke.

Are you suggesting that TrailGator's post does NOT offend me?

You are choosing to be offended by it. Its not TrailGator who offended you. You allowed yourself to be offended. Stop doing that!

You have already stated your belief that I am merely trolling, that I have no real convictions, that I’m arguing just for the sake of arguing, and that I don’t truly believe anything I write.

 

Why, then, are you continuing to respond to me? What could possibly be the point? Don’t you realize what that makes you? What does that say about your own ability to think things through?

 

I've already stated that sometimes you troll and sometimes you do actually have a real stake in a discussion beyond your desire to argue. Correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe this discussion has no real impact on your life and that your continued presence in this thread is for the mere pleasure of debating the topic... Just for the record, that's why I am here..

 

Why are you here? If I'm way off base as to your motives, let me know..

[+wigglesworth]

this makes the UK forum look tame. But there we have strict moderators!!

[+TrailGators]

When people make jokes about someone's religion they are being not too sensitive when they ask these people to knock it off.

Making jokes about someone's religion seems like something where the intent would be to disrespect, and so I would agree that they shouldn't continue.

We finally agree on something! Woo hoo!

That's it? What about the rest of the post? When you ignore part of my posts it offends me, please reply to the rest.

 

Thanks.

Let's leave it it on a high note and not rehash all that. By the way ignorant doesn't mean stupid. It means that you don't know any better. When people are rude because they are ignorant, they can learn so they are not rude the next time. That was my point.

[+BlueDeuce]

Remember the good old days when bacon was bacon and religious tract threads were about swag?

 

mmmm, bacon.

[+ReadyOrNot]

this makes the UK forum look tame. But there we have strict moderators!!

 

That's probably why we aren't being moderated over here, because you guys are over there in the UK forum throwing around your nasty words and all....

[+KBI]

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone. I'm sure I read that somewhere.

It's good to see that some of the better religious "stuff" has made it through to you.

How about this one: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

 

I know I read that one somewhere.

 

In other words, you cannot demand consideration for your sensitivities while ignoring the sensitivities of others.

 

I'm serious, TG. I'm going to have to insist that you go back and remove the contents of your offensive post, number 358. I find the contents of your post #358 to be offensive and disrespectful. It represents a system of thought that I cannot abide; it insults my own beliefs.

 

Go erase it now.

Why are you refusing to remove the contents of that offensive post, TG? Are you trying to hurt my feelings?

[Mushtang]

When people make jokes about someone's religion they are being not too sensitive when they ask these people to knock it off.

Making jokes about someone's religion seems like something where the intent would be to disrespect, and so I would agree that they shouldn't continue.

We finally agree on something! Woo hoo!

That's it? What about the rest of the post? When you ignore part of my posts it offends me, please reply to the rest.

 

Thanks.

Let's leave it it on a high note and not rehash all that. By the way ignorant doesn't mean stupid. It means that you don't know any better. When people are rude because they are ignorant, they can learn so they are not rude the next time. That was my point.

Well I guess you don't practice what you preach then do you? You were educated on the fact that not replying to part of my post offended me, yet you decided to keep offending me. Some people never learn.

 

I guess I just need to stop clicking on the links that let me see your posts, and since you made it clear you don't care what offends me I'll no longer care what offends you.

 

Good choice about not re-hashing all that, or should I say hashing it since we never actually went over it. Your claim wasn't one you'd have been able to back up, which is probably the real reason you refused to reply to it.

 

Now where did I put my Pope joke book???

[+KBI]

I've already stated that sometimes you troll and sometimes you do actually have a real stake in a discussion beyond your desire to argue. Correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe this discussion has no real impact on your life and that your continued presence in this thread is for the mere pleasure of debating the topic... Just for the record, that's why I am here..

 

Why are you here? If I'm way off base as to your motives, let me know..

Yes, you are WAY off base as to my motives.

 

Who are you to decide this discussion has no real impact on my life? We are talking about religion, geocaches and whether tracts should be viewed as offensive, right? ALL those things are important to me, whether you believe they are or not.

 

Part of this discussion has been about Ultimate Truth, and whose version may be the correct one. That is something that is very important to me.

 

Part of this discussion has been about Geocachers and their mutual respect for each other, and how religious tracts can best be handled among geocachers in an acceptable way. That is also something that is very important to me.

 

It seems you can’t fathom that anyone could possibly believe anything that conflicts with your own set of beliefs. You therefore claim my personal convictions and principles to be non-existent. You don’t believe the evidence; therefore my beliefs cannot possibly exist, right? (Wow, why does that sound familiar?)

 

I’m telling you that your assumption is wrong – and that unless you convince me that you can see the error of your assumption, there is no point in my debating you any further.

 

So tell me: Do you still believe me to be an insincere forum troll?

[+ReadyOrNot]

I've already stated that sometimes you troll and sometimes you do actually have a real stake in a discussion beyond your desire to argue. Correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe this discussion has no real impact on your life and that your continued presence in this thread is for the mere pleasure of debating the topic... Just for the record, that's why I am here..

 

Why are you here? If I'm way off base as to your motives, let me know..

Yes, you are WAY off base as to my motives.

 

Who are you to decide this discussion has no real impact on my life? We are talking about religion, geocaches and whether tracts should be viewed as offensive, right? ALL those things are important to me, whether you believe they are or not.

 

Part of this discussion has been about Ultimate Truth, and whose version may be the correct one. That is something that is very important to me.

 

Part of this discussion has been about Geocachers and their mutual respect for each other, and how religious tracts can best be handled among geocachers in an acceptable way. That is also something that is very important to me.

 

It seems you can’t fathom that anyone could possibly believe anything that conflicts with your own set of beliefs. You therefore claim my personal convictions and principles to be non-existent. You don’t believe the evidence; therefore my beliefs cannot possibly exist, right? (Wow, why does that sound familiar?)

 

I’m telling you that your assumption is wrong – and that unless you convince me that you can see the error of your assumption, there is no point in my debating you any further.

 

So tell me: Do you still believe me to be an insincere forum troll?

 

I believe that you have strong convictions and beliefs...

 

I believe that you believe what you say in these forums...

 

I also believe that you enjoy arguing and enjoy a good debate...

 

I believe that if you believe that Jesus is just "some dude" or as your brother referred to him as an "Invisible friend" (which insults my intelligence), then you are wrong...

 

I believe that you feel that my belief is wrong...

 

I believe we disagree...

 

Are you at least willing to admit that you sometimes troll? You gonna give me that?

[+BlueDeuce]

Part of this discussion has been about Geocachers and their mutual respect for each other, and how religious tracts can best be handled among geocachers in an acceptable way.

 

We will never, ever get a consistent approach on how geocachers should handle tracts OTHER than each person address the trade item with their own set of values, and the guidelines set down by gc.com.

 

How a person deals with tracts does not matter to me and nor should it to anyone else. What is available to trade, regardless of social impact, does not fall under any sort of restriction or requirement to be traded out.

Edited August 13, 2008 by BlueDeuce

[+TrailGators]

Now where did I put my Pope joke book???

So much for the high note.

[+TrailGators]

Why are you refusing to remove the contents of that offensive post, TG? Are you trying to hurt my feelings?

I thought you were blowing smoke. What exactly did I say that offends you and why does it offend you?

[+ReadyOrNot]

Why are you refusing to remove the contents of that offensive post, TG? Are you trying to hurt my feelings?

I thought you were blowing smoke. What exactly did I say that offends you and why does it offend you?

 

Don't accuse them of blowing smoke.... They are VERY, VERY serious about everything they do on the forums... Their arguments are all VERY, VERY important and serious...

 

Seriously serious.

[+KBI]

I believe that you have strong convictions and beliefs...

 

I believe that you believe what you say in these forums...

 

I also believe that you enjoy arguing and enjoy a good debate...

 

I believe that if you believe that Jesus is just "some dude" or as your brother referred to him as an "Invisible friend" (which insults my intelligence), then you are wrong...

 

I believe that you feel that my belief is wrong...

 

I believe we disagree...

 

Are you at least willing to admit that you sometimes troll? You gonna give me that?

No.

 

I do NOT “troll.”

 

Posting just for the sake of posting makes about as much sense to me as ... well, posting fake “Found it” logs.

 

I see no reason to waste my time discussing something in which I have no true interest. As I said, I believe your assumption otherwise stems from your disbelief that anyone could possibly believe anything different from what you believe. You even said as much in your latest post:

 

I believe that if you believe that Jesus is just "some dude" or as your brother referred to him as an "Invisible friend" (which insults my intelligence), then you are wrong...

I disagree with you, therefore I must be a troll? Is it so hard to believe that someone can have a carefully considered and deeply held belief that differs from yours?

 

No, I do not troll.

 

In fact, I generally only get involved in these debates whenever I have a strong personal viewpoint, AND that viewpoint puts me among the minority opinion on an issue. If I find I agree with the majority I usually stay out of it. Posting that I agree with the majority is a waste of time and only clutters the threads, in my opinion – which is why you hardly ever see any “I agree” posts from me, even though I frequently agree with things people post in these forums – even you.

 

You are correct, however, in concluding that I enjoy arguing and enjoy a good debate. I think good debate is healthy, educational, and fun. I always learn a lot from threads like this one. What is there to learn from people I already agree with? Debating folks with an opposing viewpoint is much more enlightening.

 

The mere fact that someone enjoys a debate is no reason for you to conclude that person is insincere.

 

I have never accused you of having made up your position just for the sake of making noise; I thank you for now withdrawing your similar claim against me.

 

That is very big of you, and I appreciate it.

[+KBI]

Why are you refusing to remove the contents of that offensive post, TG? Are you trying to hurt my feelings?

I thought you were blowing smoke. What exactly did I say that offends you and why does it offend you?

It is the content of your post #358.

 

What does it matter to you why it offends me? Isn’t it enough that I told you it offends me?

 

You have made it clear that you believe anything anyone finds highly offensive should not be posted, out of respect for the sensitivities and feelings of the offendee. I am therefore telling you that your post #358 is something I find to be disrespectful and offensive, and that I now expect you to go back and erase it.

[+TrailGators]

Why are you refusing to remove the contents of that offensive post, TG? Are you trying to hurt my feelings?

I thought you were blowing smoke. What exactly did I say that offends you and why does it offend you?

It is the content of your post #358.

 

What does it matter to you why it offends me? Isn't it enough that I told you it offends me?

 

You have made it clear that you believe anything anyone finds highly offensive should not be posted, out of respect for the sensitivities and feelings of the offendee. I am therefore telling you that your post #358 is something I find to be disrespectful and offensive, and that I now expect you to go back and erase it.

It matters why so I can understand and not make similar statements. It also matters why because I still think you are pulling my leg. Edited August 14, 2008 by TrailGators

[+KBI]

Why are you refusing to remove the contents of that offensive post, TG? Are you trying to hurt my feelings?

I thought you were blowing smoke. What exactly did I say that offends you and why does it offend you?

 

Don't accuse them of blowing smoke.... They are VERY, VERY serious about everything they do on the forums... Their arguments are all VERY, VERY important and serious...

 

Seriously serious.

Huh?

 

Weren't you the first one who cried foul when you thought someone wasn't paying your belief set the respect you feel you automatically deserve?

 

Are you suggesting it is okay when you take certain subjects -- like religion -- serious ... but somehow bad when other people take certain subjects -- like religion -- serious?

 

Certainly you aren't proposing a double standard?

[Roadtorque]

in the beginning there was darkness - and for some they never saw the light!

 

Thats awsome! Makes you wonder if people even stop to think before they reply or if they wait at their computer for a post just to fire back at. For me this topic as taken a recent turn in the last page or two from being an interesting topic to being down right pathetic . I might return later to read to see if it swings back to a more educated argument/topic but for now I'm out. In the mean time some of you might need to pull out some of the religious items in the caches...from the sounds of it, might do you some good

[+KBI]

It matters why so I can understand and not make similar statements.

Actually, I already explained why. In fact, I am offended that you didn't read this post the first time around:

I'm going to have to insist that you go back and remove the contents of your offensive post, number 358. I find the contents of your post #358 to be offensive and disrespectful. It represents a system of thought that I cannot abide; it insults my own beliefs.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

It also matters why because I still think you are pulling my leg.

Why do you believe I am insincere? Who are you to even question what does and does not offend me? Why isn’t it enough that I am telling you I am offended?

 

It was suggested to you that the offendee might be the one who is actually responsible when one finds oneself offended, not the person who posted the thing in question. When it was suggested that your offense at the pope comment was not justified, that no insult was intended, and that maybe you should have ignored it, you argued instead that your mere claim of being highly offended was enough reason for folks to respect your view and not post the offending thing.

 

You are the judge of what you find offensive; I am the judge of what I find offensive. According to you, I don’t get to tell you what is okay to be offended by; you therefore don’t get to tell me what is okay to be offended by.

 

I find your post to be offensive; therefore, unless you are proposing a double standard, you must now remove the contents of that post if you truly believe in the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

[+TrailGators]

It matters why so I can understand and not make similar statements.

Actually, I already explained why. In fact, I am offended that you didn't read this post the first time around:

I'm going to have to insist that you go back and remove the contents of your offensive post, number 358. I find the contents of your post #358 to be offensive and disrespectful. It represents a system of thought that I cannot abide; it insults my own beliefs.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

It also matters why because I still think you are pulling my leg.

Why do you believe I am insincere? Who are you to even question what does and does not offend me? Why isn't it enough that I am telling you I am offended?

 

It was suggested to you that the offendee might be the one who is actually responsible when one finds oneself offended, not the person who posted the thing in question. When it was suggested that your offense at the pope comment was not justified, that no insult was intended, and that maybe you should have ignored it, you argued instead that your mere claim of being highly offended was enough reason for folks to respect your view and not post the offending thing.

 

You are the judge of what you find offensive; I am the judge of what I find offensive. According to you, I don't get to tell you what is okay to be offended by; you therefore don't get to tell me what is okay to be offended by.

 

I find your post to be offensive; therefore, unless you are proposing a double standard, you must now remove the contents of that post if you truly believe in the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

There was nothing I said that was offensive. When you get serious let me know...

[+TrailGators]

in the beginning there was darkness - and for some they never saw the light!

 

Thats awsome! Makes you wonder if people even stop to think before they reply or if they wait at their computer for a post just to fire back at. For me this topic as taken a recent turn in the last page or two from being an interesting topic to being down right pathetic . I might return later to read to see if it swings back to a more educated argument/topic but for now I'm out. In the mean time some of you might need to pull out some of the religious items in the caches...from the sounds of it, might do you some good

I agree.

[+KBI]

There was nothing I said that was offensive. When you get serious let me know...

I am quite serious.

 

I'm afraid it doesn't work that way, TG. You don't get to decide what is offensive to me. *I* decide what is offensive to me.

 

Suppose you posted your objection to the pope comment and someone responded to you by telling you: "There was nothing there that was offensive. When you get serious let me know..." Would that have been acceptable to you?

 

Like Mushtang, I think I am ready to give up on you, and I will no longer waste my time worrying about what might or might not offend you. Why should I care? You certainly don't seem interested in reciprocating.

 

Hey Mushtang, did you find that book of Pope jokes?