Want to support an E-Petition on wild-camping in England/Wales?

[+harold1066]

For those unaware but interested in getting involved there's an E-Petition currently seeking support on the 10 Downing Street website:

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/wildcamp/#detail

 

"We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to legalise wild camping in England and Wales

Currently without the landowners consent it is illegal to wild camp on the moors, mountains, National Parks and MOD land. It is time to give people the same rights as those given North of the Border in Scotland to allow them to wild camp in these places without threat of legal action"

 

It was listed earlier in Feb and will need all the votes it can if it is to get any serious credence.

 

Deadline to sign up is 24 May 2008, and you must be a British citizen or resident to sign (It's quite quick and simple to do)

 

Please spread the word if you wish - it will need all the support it can get if it's to at least get those in power interested

 

Whatever your view on UK Gov's E-Democracy ideas - if its not used then nothing will happen.

 

Thanks for reading this

[+keehotee]

Is this not going to open the floodgates for everybody to wild camp - that's everybody that wants a party, but doesn't want to tidy up afterwards -and all the travellers, (apologies if there are any tidy travellers (reading this)).

 

There are areas that still allow wild camping - and in other areas I've camped - well, I've always been gone long before anybody would have seen me even if they had been in the area......

Edited March 18, 2008 by keehotee

[+PopUpPirate]

Perhaps those that make a mess would be those that wouldn't acknowledge the law as it stands now? The proposal could benefit us law abiding citizens...

[+harold1066]

Is this not going to open the floodgates for everybody to wild camp - that's everybody that wants a party, but doesn't want to tidy up afterwards -and all the travellers, (apologies if there are any tidy travellers (reading this)).

 

This is an argument that has been aired a fair bit.

 

There are a few websites that will help to address the limitation and status of the petition.

 

http://www.cameronmcneish.co.uk/blogs/212#comments

 

http://whitespider1066.com/?p=1557

 

http://blog.outdoorsmanning.com/2008/01/30...riving-me-wild/

 

John Manning blog entry gives a good response to these questions.

 

There are areas that still allow wild camping - and in other areas I've camped - well, I've always been gone long before anybody would have seen me even if they had been in the area......

 

This is one of the problems; people believe that they allow to wild camp in England & Wales, you can't. Technical you need to ask the landowners permission.

 

Another one of our group has posted this article on the subject.

 

Nailing my colours to the mast

 

Sorry to be posting links but this has been running since February and there is a lot of information out there.

 

Thanks for taking the time to look and reponse.

 

Harold1066

[wolfshead57]

I allways thought you could wild camp at a certain height above sea level am I wrong on this score if so sorry to all you land owners out there for camping onyour land while out hiking.

 

[+spannerman]

I'm lucky then, Dartmoor National Park are happy for people to "wild camp" as long as a few reasonable guidlines are met.

 

DNP page

[+keehotee]

This is one of the problems; people believe that they allow to wild camp in England & Wales, you can't. Technical you need to ask the landowners permission.

Actually, wild camping's allowed on dartmoor without asking prior permission - as long as "you choose your spot sensibly and don't pitch your tent on farmland, on moorland enclosed by walls, within 100 metres of a road, on flood plains or on archaeological sites" - according to the byelaws!

 

Edited to add - I was typing that as Spannerman posted...!!!

Edited March 18, 2008 by keehotee

[+harold1066]

This is one of the problems; people believe that they allow to wild camp in England & Wales, you can't. Technical you need to ask the landowners permission.

Actually, wild camping's allowed on dartmoor without asking prior permission - as long as "you choose your spot sensibly and don't pitch your tent on farmland, on moorland enclosed by walls, within 100 metres of a road, on flood plains or on archaeological sites" - according to the byelaws!

 

Edited to add - I was typing that as Spannerman posted...!!!

 

That's is true: I forget about Dartmoor.

 

So if it is O.K on Dartmoor and there isn't hoards of people that want a party, but doesn't want to tidy up afterwards -and all the travellers camping on Dartmoor then surely a move to allow the same access to other areas like snowdonia, exmoor is not going to be a problem either.

 

What we are looking for is similar access to what Scotland has.

 

This is part of the Scottish Outdoor Access Code (PDF Link)

 

 

Responsible behaviour by the public

 

Access rights extend to wild camping. This type of camping is lightweight, done in small numbers and only for two or three nights in any one place. You can camp in this way wherever access rights apply but help to avoid causing problems for local people and land managers by not camping in enclosed fields of crops or farm animals and by keeping well away from buildings, roads or historic structures. Take extra care to avoid disturbing deer stalking or grouse shooting. If you wish to camp close to a house or building, seek the owner’s permission.

 

Leave no trace by:

 

* taking away all your litter;

* removing all traces of your tent pitch and of any open fire (follow the guidance for lighting fires);

* not causing any pollution

 

Responsible behaviour by land managers

 

If you are experiencing large numbers of roadside campers or have well-used wild camping areas, you could work with your local authority and with recreational bodies to assist the management of such camping.

 

Where and when you can exercise access rights

2.2 Everyone, whatever their age or ability, can exercise access rights over most land and inland water in Scotland, at any time of day or night, providing they do so responsibly. These rights do not extend to all places or to all activities (see paragraphs 2.11 to 2.15). Provided you do so responsibly (see Parts 3 and 5 of the Code), you can exercise access rights in places such as:

 

* hills, mountains and moorland;

* woods and forests;

* most urban parks, country parks and other managed open spaces;

* rivers, lochs, canals and reservoirs;

* riverbanks, loch shores, beaches and the coastline;

* land in which crops have not been sown;

* on the margins of fields where crops are growing or have been sown;

* grassland, including grass being grown for hay or silage (except when it is at such a late stage of growth that it is likely to be damaged);

* fields where there are horses, cattle and other farm animals;

* on all core paths agreed by the local authority;

* on all other paths and tracks where these cross land on which access rights can be exercised;

* on grass sports or playing fields, when not in use, and on land or inland water developed or set out for a recreational purpose, unless the exercise of access rights would interfere with the carrying on of that recreational use;

* golf courses, but only for crossing them and providing that you do not take access across greens or interfere with any games of golf;

* on, through or over bridges, tunnels, causeways, launching sites, groynes, weirs, boulder weirs, embankments of canals and similar waterways, fences, walls or anything designed to facilitate access (such as gates or stiles).

 

Where do access rights not apply?

2.11 Access rights do not apply in the following places.

...and there's a big long list ... including nearby houses (privacy), sport grounds, land excluded by byelaws

 

What activities are excluded from access rights?

2.12 Access rights must be exercised in ways that are lawful and reasonable. By definition this excludes any unlawful or criminal activity from the time at which it occurs. Furthermore, being on or crossing land for the purpose of doing anything which is an offence or a breach of an interdict or other order of a court is excluded from access rights. This means that a person intent on such a purpose is excluded from access rights at the time they seek to enter the land. This is also taken to include the carrying of any firearm, except where the person is crossing land or water to immediately access land or water, or return from such, where shooting rights are granted, held or held in trust or by any person authorised to exercise such rights.

2.13 A list of the more obvious statutory offences relating to people’s behaviour is provided at Annex 1. This list includes poaching, vandalism, not clearing up after your dog has fouled in a public place, being responsible for a dog worrying livestock, dropping litter, polluting water, and disturbing wild birds, animals and plants. There are also common law of such as breach of the peace.

 

[+alma]

im all for it i will be supporting it.hope its sucsesful

[+NickandAliandEliza]

Perhaps those that make a mess would be those that wouldn't acknowledge the law as it stands now? The proposal could benefit us law abiding citizens...

 

What he said...........petition signed.

[+keehotee]

Surely this would down to local NPA's and their byelaws though, rather than central government? Can you really see the New Forest allowing themselves to be railroaded by a government decree - whereas other NPA's might be far more amenable....... (just look at cache permissions as an example of how NPA's outlooks vary)

[Lactodorum]

This is a Geocaching forum and promoting a "political" petition really has no place here. I hope that any personal feelings I might have for or against the aims of the petition have not influenced my decision to close this thread for being "Off topic".

 

Topic closed.