Neither Rain Nor Snow, nor Permission...

[+wesleykey]

 

Nacho AND a coke, please!

[+Renegade Knight]

....Newbies (and some of us older salts as well) have tried hiding caches on mailboxes, under bridges and near government or such buildings...those areas are big NO NO's and anyone doing this SHOULD be prosecuted if it causes a big fuss such as the Lite-Brite incident. You KNOWINGLY cause a fuss....

 

I'm not with you here.

 

My senior class president was late with his Honors English Paper. He phoned in a bomb threat to delay when he could turn in his assignment. He got caught. That's knowingly causing a fuss. He went on to become a local news anchor. Go figure.

 

If you drop your PDA at the courthouse, or hide a cache behind the 10 Commandments statue that's not knowingly causing a fuss and both can result in a big fuss. So could a really big burrito you at yesterday in a confined environment. In all cases we actually don’t want a response or a fuss. That’s key.

 

Boston created a big Fuss by their own choices. The other cities didn't by their own choices. Who was in control of the level of Fuss? Not the people who placed the light bights. The City's themselves created their own response. I'm not saying Boston was wrong or the other cities were right about the level of response. The line on wrong was crossed with the threats of prosecution over something that was intended as a harmless stunt and It was a harmless stunt. We cachers do not determine the level of response and because of that unless we have a harmful intent we should get the same 'whoops sorry about that', that the street department is likely to get for their traffic counter.

 

Oh and something to keep in mind. Geocaching and bomb makers have different goals that dictate placement. Terrorists need publicity. They need to maximize disruption and harm to gain the most press and expand their impact beyond the bomb crater. Cachers try to minimize the risk of their cache being taken on accident and most of the time try to allow for some discression on the part of the seeker.

[+Confucius' Cat]

The line on wrong was crossed with the threats of prosecution over something that was intended as a harmless stunt and It was a harmless stunt.

THAT summarizes the thread as far as i am concerned.

 

This is relevant to us because the legal and innocent thing we do is easily misinterpreted by over-zealous authorities who want to "make a statement" and frankly IMO, don't give a hoot in Helsinki who gets hurt.

[Archangel_UK]

Obviously the thing to do is to avoid urban caching in preference of more rural locations thereby reducing the blow-up factor to a manageable size. (

 

One question......Have there been more domestic terrorists OR more international terrorist incidents?

 

I can`t be sure but I think there may have been more homegrown terror acts ... correct me if I`m wrong

Edited October 26, 2007 by Archangel_UK

[+sbell111]

[+Renegade Knight]

Obviously the thing to do is to avoid urban caching in preference of more rural locations thereby reducing the blow-up factor to a manageable size. (

 

One question......Have there been more domestic terrorists OR more international terrorist incidents?

 

I can`t be sure but I think there may have been more homegrown terror acts ... correct me if I`m wrong

 

It's in the spin.

Real terrorism has as a goal the use of the news media to spread it's message and achieve it's goals. The other part is the means by which they get the attention of the media so the media will spread the message. Both military and terrorist organizations use the media. They only differ in the latter. Organizations that would persist in their activities without the media (like the military) would tend to not be terrorist. Organizations that would radically change how they do things without the media would tend to be terrorist.

 

Many of the home grown events that some may spin into terrorism fail to meet the first part of the test.

 

The legal spin on what terrorism is, is broadening. If a farm boy likes blowing up mailboxes (not too much different than mailbox baseball in intent) that's not terrorism, but if you identify the use of bombs as a terrorist activity now it is, and the tools to go after the kid, lock him up and throw away the key get a heck of a lot more liberal. So in todays world we are going to suffer from "terrorism creep". If all real terrorism quit tomorrow...you would still have more reported terrorism and more terrorist related presecution from nothing more than the definition creep.

 

The short answer is this. 20 years ago we had a lot more wack jobs making bombs. Today those same wack jobs are not likley more common, but more of them would be prosecuted under our terrorist rules as terrorists leading to a "massive spike in domestic terrorism" without much of anything changing.

[+Renegade Knight]

On topic:

Recently I read two articles within a day of each other.

One the guy had a pipe that contained personal effects inside of it in his luggage.

 

The other was luggage containing training bombs.

 

In the first the guy was drug through the mud by the newspaper and by the police for being so freaking stupid and putting the public in harms way. The latter was written off as one of those things that just happen and that the public was never in danger because the fake bombs were inert.

 

The difference in spin was astounding.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-0...506845672_x.htm

 

I can't find an online source for the other one.

 

Just for kicks and to point out what all gets reported.

(Chemical Terrors Scare over Chili)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england...don/7025782.stm

[+Confucius' Cat]

There is a "bandwagon" effect. These reports come in spurts.

 

By way of analogy, it came to my attention today how much I and the wife are seeing things differently in regard to our family doctor who has recently been arrested for everything under the sun.

 

Since the reports came out on TV, we suddenly "remember" all the really odd things we have seen in his office over the years. At the time they meant nothing. But "spinning" them with the current events, all of a sudden he is the embodiment of evil and we are surprised that we didn't see it all along.

 

In reality, we have probably witnessed nothing out of the ordinary. Our perception has been coloured by the reports of wrong-doing.

 

Similarly, when someone is "tried on TV" for molestation, everyone comes "out of the woodwork" with stories (most of which are probably highly embellished) of how the guy was "always acting strange." And of course there will be many additional stories that are much worse than the one for which he's on trial.

 

As long as terrorism is in the media, any "suspicious activity" is going to be automatically labeled "terrorism." We can expect pretty much the same response any time a cacher gets "caught."

 

The sad thing is, this ubiquitous terrorism paranoia is exactly what the terrorists are fishing for and we have taken the bait hook, line and sinker.

[+Confucius' Cat]

The other was luggage containing training bombs.

The latest report is that 75% of those get through airport security.

[+EScout]

See this video where they show the Bomb Squad blowing up a "suspicious device." From the location, and description, I would guess it could be a cache.

 

Allied Gardens Park "suspicious device"