Religion Themed Caches

[4wheelin_fool]

Would I remove a wiccan item, yes. Would I remove the star of David, no.. Is that ducking?

 

It's offensive, and non-tolerant of other's beliefs.

 

As a general rule I've found that most people who debate religion, athiesm, agnoticism seldom understand the basics of their own beliefs are built on, let alone the others. It's generally true of all 3. Becuase of that an honest and good debate is seldom possible as dogma creeps in.

 

I'll agree with that.

[+ReadyOrNot]

Would I remove a wiccan item, yes. Would I remove the star of David, no.. Is that ducking?

 

It's offensive, and non-tolerant of other's beliefs.

 

As a general rule I've found that most people who debate religion, athiesm, agnoticism seldom understand the basics of their own beliefs are built on, let alone the others. It's generally true of all 3. Becuase of that an honest and good debate is seldom possible as dogma creeps in.

 

I'll agree with that.

 

Ok. I respect your opinion, but I do have a question.. Where is your line? and how do you draw it? I bet it's not nearly as cut and dry as you think. I hate to bring things back to pornography, but it's one of the better examples out there. Someone leaves a Hustler in the cache. I bet 99.9% of the cachers would remove it. But what really defines pornography? One person's pornography is another person's art. I'm sure my removing something offensive like pornography may bother someone out there, but I can't live my life based on what may or may not offend you. It's my personal responsibility to make sure I live my life according to my beliefs and what I believe is right or wrong. If you lived your life making sure that everything you did was not offensive to anyone, then you might as well lock your front door and not leave the house. The fact that you find my behavior intollerant or offensive does not mean anything to me because you are not the judge of my behavior. You may think that you are, but you are entitled to be and do whatever you feel fit.

 

If you read the thread, you'll see that I agreed that I should have checked with the TB owner before removing the item. Had it just been "Cache Fodder", I think we've established that I would have been well within the guidelines to remove the item (as long as I replaced it with an item of equal or greater value)

[4wheelin_fool]

 

Ok. I respect your opinion, but I do have a question.. Where is your line? and how do you draw it? I bet it's not nearly as cut and dry as you think. I hate to bring things back to pornography, but it's one of the better examples out there. Someone leaves a Hustler in the cache. I bet 99.9% of the cachers would remove it. But what really defines pornography? One person's pornography is another person's art. I'm sure my removing something offensive like pornography may bother someone out there, but I can't live my life based on what may or may not offend you. It's my personal responsibility to make sure I live my life according to my beliefs and what I believe is right or wrong. If you lived your life making sure that everything you did was not offensive to anyone, then you might as well lock your front door and not leave the house. The fact that you find my behavior intollerant or offensive does not mean anything to me because you are not the judge of my behavior. You may think that you are, but you are entitled to be and do whatever you feel fit.

 

You are comparing pornography to another person's religion.

 

You also mention that I am not the judge of your behavior, but you seem to be judging the Wiccans pretty well with your actions.

 

make sure I live my life according to my beliefs and what I believe is right or wrong.

 

Thats right. Interfering with the property of others is making your beliefs a little less personal.

Edited December 12, 2006 by 4wheelin_fool

[+ReadyOrNot]

You are comparing pornography to another person's religion.

 

You also mention that I am not the judge of your behavior, but you seem to be judging the Wiccans pretty well with your actions.

 

make sure I live my life according to my beliefs and what I believe is right or wrong.

 

Thats right. Interfering with the property of others is making your beliefs a little less personal.

 

I kindly ask that you read the entire discussion before making uninformed comments. I think it is extremely dishonest, bordering on disgusting to imply that I compared someone's religion to pornography. The discussion was about removing items that are deemed objectionable. The only valid comparison is that I felt the wiccan item was objectionable, not that I compared it to pornography.

 

If you'd like to have a discussion, please keep the discussion honest and respectful.

 

1) In response to your comment about judging the wiccan's behavior. I can't honestly say that I even know any wiccan's?? I'm trying for the life of me to determine who it is I am judging exactly. I removed an item that I felt was objectionable and WAS NOT the property of the TB owner.. But as has been stated previously, I should have spoke with the owner of the TB before removing the item.

 

So I'm left wondering what exactly your point is? Maybe your world-view doesn't contain right and wrong, but mine does. And if I happen across something that is "not right" (we'll be PC here), then I have an obligation to make it right if I can. If you disagree with that, then welcome to America, because the last time I checked, I get to believe what I want.

[+flask]

i'm sure you've all been waiting for me to weigh in...

 

it's like this:

 

i'm against caches and/or TBs that appear to have the intent to proselytize.

 

i'm ok with caches and/or TBs that are of religious nature provided they are not intended to work toward conversion.

 

it's sometimes hard to tell the difference.

 

ammocan on RC church property with RC themed stuff? fine so long as it's respectful of visitors who are not RC.

 

wiccan TB? sure. if i don't like it, i don't have to pick it up.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

You are comparing pornography to another person's religion.

 

You also mention that I am not the judge of your behavior, but you seem to be judging the Wiccans pretty well with your actions.

 

make sure I live my life according to my beliefs and what I believe is right or wrong.

 

Thats right. Interfering with the property of others is making your beliefs a little less personal.

 

I kindly ask that you read the entire discussion before making uninformed comments. I think it is extremely dishonest, bordering on disgusting to imply that I compared someone's religion to pornography. The discussion was about removing items that are deemed objectionable. The only valid comparison is that I felt the wiccan item was objectionable, not that I compared it to pornography.

 

If you'd like to have a discussion, please keep the discussion honest and respectful.

 

1) In response to your comment about judging the wiccan's behavior. I can't honestly say that I even know any wiccan's?? I'm trying for the life of me to determine who it is I am judging exactly. I removed an item that I felt was objectionable and WAS NOT the property of the TB owner.. But as has been stated previously, I should have spoke with the owner of the TB before removing the item.

 

So I'm left wondering what exactly your point is? Maybe your world-view doesn't contain right and wrong, but mine does. And if I happen across something that is "not right" (we'll be PC here), then I have an obligation to make it right if I can. If you disagree with that, then welcome to America, because the last time I checked, I get to believe what I want.

 

The last line is the issue - yep, you are entitled to believe what you want... but that does not mean that you can act against others with different beliefs.

 

I do have a caching buddy that is Wiccan, and have known others in the past. I don't agree with his beliefs, but will fight for his right to believe them. I have never known him to leave Wiccan-related items in a cache, but he can if he wants. I don't leave Baptist materials in caches, but can if I want to, and you have no right to dispose of them any more than you can burn books you don't like!

 

Ed

[+CYBret]

Are we done yet?

 

Bret

[4wheelin_fool]

I think it is extremely dishonest, bordering on disgusting to imply that I compared someone's religion to pornography. The discussion was about removing items that are deemed objectionable. The only valid comparison is that I felt the wiccan item was objectionable, not that I compared it to pornography.

I hate to bring things back to pornography, but it's one of the better examples out there.

 

Analysis: You were comparing offensive items. You then brought up pornography in comparison to a Wiccan item.

 

I'm trying for the life of me to determine who it is I am judging exactly.

And if I happen across something that is "not right"(we'll be PC here),

Analysis: Sounds fairly judgemental to me.

 

If you disagree with that, then welcome to America, because the last time I checked, I get to believe what I want.

But you will attempt to prevent others from doing the same, eh?

 

 

I'm done here.

 

I'm also a non-wiccan BTW.

Edited December 12, 2006 by 4wheelin_fool

[seakayak]

I think it's a GREAT idea. If someone doesn't like it, they don't have to find it.. It's a free country..

[+ReadyOrNot]

You are comparing pornography to another person's religion.

 

You also mention that I am not the judge of your behavior, but you seem to be judging the Wiccans pretty well with your actions.

 

make sure I live my life according to my beliefs and what I believe is right or wrong.

 

Thats right. Interfering with the property of others is making your beliefs a little less personal.

 

I kindly ask that you read the entire discussion before making uninformed comments. I think it is extremely dishonest, bordering on disgusting to imply that I compared someone's religion to pornography. The discussion was about removing items that are deemed objectionable. The only valid comparison is that I felt the wiccan item was objectionable, not that I compared it to pornography.

 

If you'd like to have a discussion, please keep the discussion honest and respectful.

 

1) In response to your comment about judging the wiccan's behavior. I can't honestly say that I even know any wiccan's?? I'm trying for the life of me to determine who it is I am judging exactly. I removed an item that I felt was objectionable and WAS NOT the property of the TB owner.. But as has been stated previously, I should have spoke with the owner of the TB before removing the item.

 

So I'm left wondering what exactly your point is? Maybe your world-view doesn't contain right and wrong, but mine does. And if I happen across something that is "not right" (we'll be PC here), then I have an obligation to make it right if I can. If you disagree with that, then welcome to America, because the last time I checked, I get to believe what I want.

 

The last line is the issue - yep, you are entitled to believe what you want... but that does not mean that you can act against others with different beliefs.

 

I do have a caching buddy that is Wiccan, and have known others in the past. I don't agree with his beliefs, but will fight for his right to believe them. I have never known him to leave Wiccan-related items in a cache, but he can if he wants. I don't leave Baptist materials in caches, but can if I want to, and you have no right to dispose of them any more than you can burn books you don't like!

 

Ed

 

I didn't tell anyone what they could and couldn't believe. If he has the right to leave wiccan items, does everyone else not have the right to remove them?

 

If someone leaves an item in a cache, I have EVERY right to take the item out of the cache and then it becomes mine to do with as I please (as long as I trade). Are you implying that you have the right to leave a Baptist book if you want, but then the right to remove that book does not exist for anyone else? I believe you need to review the guidlines for trading items in caches.

[+BlueDeuce]

I didn't tell anyone what they could and couldn't believe. If he has the right to leave wiccan items, does everyone else not have the right to remove them?

 

If someone leaves an item in a cache, I have EVERY right to take the item out of the cache and then it becomes mine to do with as I please (as long as I trade). Are you implying that you have the right to leave a Baptist book if you want, but then the right to remove that book does not exist for anyone else? I believe you need to review the guidlines for trading items in caches.

 

Trade even, trade up or don't trade at all.

 

Your intent behind the reason for your trade is nobody else's business. You like it, trade for it. You don't like it, trade for it. Doesn't really matter why, does it?

[+DudleyGrunt]

Arrgghh. Why do people have to be so politically correct? If some one is going to get offended because they find something in a cache they don't like, they probably ought be participating in a more predictable hobby. I often place pocket crosses in caches and have even (gasp) left a few New Testaments I had laying around the house. I do post them in my logs incase anyone would burst into flame upon finding them. Some people need to loosen up.

[+Renegade Knight]

...I hate to bring things back to pornography, but it's one of the better examples out there. Someone leaves a Hustler in the cache. I bet 99.9% of the cachers would remove it. But what really defines pornography?...

 

This one is easy. Kids can't buy the magazine and my rule of thumb for valid trade items is that kids should be able to possess it. Thus skin magazines, beer, cigarettes and pistols, among other things, are not good trade items even if adults do enjoy them.

[+jcblough]

My gut reaction to religious themed caches or TB's is why? It's a game gang. Who is going to be swayed or moved by any of it? I was born and raised Methodist, 16 years in a catholic school and this stuff drives me crazy. Religion is out there for everyone to find. You want to put a cache at a church, cool. No harm no foul to me. But why go the extra step and make it themed? If I want to feel closer to the higher-power-of-my-calling or whatever, I'll do it by being out doors and spending some time to reflect. I don't need an ammo box of trinkets to get me in the mood for it.

 

To me, if you want a religious themed cache that works and/or may impacts someone. Put it in a good spot - a pretty church or a quiet reflective area. Put someone in the position to think, don't cram it down their throats. That goes for any religion - period. No one wants to be force fed.

 

And I don't think it is offensive necessarily just maybe not the most proper approach. I would say that a religious themed cache is our game's version of getting stuck at a religion discussion at a dinner party. It probably just isn't the right thing to do.

Edited December 19, 2006 by jcblough

[Dinoprophet]

My gut reaction to religious themed caches or TB's is why? It's a game gang. Who is going to be swayed or moved by any of it? I was born and raised Methodist, 16 years in a catholic school and this stuff drives me crazy. Religion is out there for everyone to find. You want to put a cache at a church, cool. No harm no foul to me. But why go the extra step and make it themed? If I want to feel closer to the higher-power-of-my-calling or whatever, I'll do it by being out doors and spending some time to reflect. I don't need an ammo box of trinkets to get me in the mood for it.

You're assuming the purpose is to convert. I think it's more likely they're placed because that religion is important to the person who placed it. I agree that no one will be swayed, but to say no one will be moved ignores what others may feel about the religion. It's no different than any other theme. You might as well ask "Why any theme?"

[+jcblough]

 

You're assuming the purpose is to convert. I think it's more likely they're placed because that religion is important to the person who placed it. I agree that no one will be swayed, but to say no one will be moved ignores what others may feel about the religion. It's no different than any other theme. You might as well ask "Why any theme?"

 

Very true, I'd say I'd assume the purpose of the religious theme would be at the very least to promote or raise awareness. I guess to me religion is very personal so I wouldn't do it period. The only reason I'd do a theme cache is to make the hide/hunt cooler

[+BlueDeuce]

Good Lord, are we still covering the same ground five pages later?

 

I leave items that people will want to take and trade for. I'm going for low cost, high want, trade value. If I think I'm converting somebody by a leaving a St Chris Medal then I need smack in the head.

[+Renegade Knight]

Good Lord, are we still covering the same ground five pages later?

 

I leave items that people will want to take and trade for. I'm going for low cost, high want, trade value. If I think I'm converting somebody by a leaving a St Chris Medal then I need smack in the head.

 

You would need a smack in the head for trying to use a medal. You should use a St. Chris Geocoin. It's all about knowing your customer.

[+BlueDeuce]

It's all about knowing your customer.

 

[+ReadyOrNot]

It's all about knowing your customer.

 

 

I'm amazed that this thread hasn't been closed. I think we've witnessed a miracle folks I think the OP established that the cache in question was not religious themed, but involved a very cool historical church. The original discussion was whether it should be approved or not. I think (this may be an assumption) that the majority do not have a problem with the cache in question being approved.

 

I'd be interested to find out if the cache got approved or if it was even submitted??????

[+BlueDeuce]

I'd be interested to find out if the cache got approved or if it was even submitted??????

 

No indication in the OP's profile.