Right Of Way In The Uk

[+Cooties!]

Ok, now that I've researched a few of the caches we're going to visit I'm getting a little worried about the "right of way" rules regarding access to property, crossing fields, climbing mountains, etc...

 

The Canonballs Cache (GCQFPG) is a good example (sorry Write and Mane)

I've worked out the solution, but after looking at the spot on GoogleEarth, I'm worried about how to get there!

Here in the states, private property is usually fenced off (pretty clearly) and access is usually strictly forbidden (not to mention against the rules for geocaching). Caches are on public land, and it's not too hard to find out how to get to them.

 

Am I overthinking this? I really wouldn't want to be known as "those darned American tourists" who can't follow the rules... ;P

Any tips on pathfinding?

 

Thanks in advance.

[+Firth of Forth]

If you plan to visit Scotland, it's a lot simpler (the laws are different here to those in England). There is Access Code, which allows anyone the right of access anywhere, as long as you behave in a responsible manner. That includes on the land, underground, and on the water.

 

You can find out more here.

[+MarcoXono]

Caches are on public land, and it's not too hard to find out how to get to them.

 

As a general rule, there is no "public land" here - it all belongs to someone.

There is a network of Rights Of Way which include footpaths, bridleways, byways and roads

(see HERE for definitions)

 

Clicking on the streetmap.co.uk link on the cache page will take you to a 1:50,000 map, on which these rights of ways are marked:

Footpath: ----------

Bridleway: _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Road used as a path: . _ . _ . _ . _ .

Byway: -+-+-+-+-+

 

(Note: If you use the 1:25,000 Ordnance Survey maps, Rights Of Way are marked in green, not red)

 

Hope that helps

Edited August 4, 2006 by MarcoXono

[Deceangi]

Visit Geocaching Resources which is hosted by Lactodorum one of my Reviewer colleagues.

 

Towards the bottom you'll see Rights of Ways, and the Countryside and Rights of Way Act (CRoW) which can be downloaded in Word or PDF formats. This gives a very simple explanation of RoWs and the CRoW Act (Open Access).

[+Jango & Boba Fett]

If you look at the latest Ordnance Survey (equivalent of USGS) 1:25,000 Explorer Maps they show Rights of Way in green (footpaths, bridleways and byways) and Open Access countryside in buff. If you go to the Get-a-Map website you can view an OS map extract for your cache by typing in the National Grid Grid Reference.

 

Another good source is the Open Countryside website which shows all the open access areas across England & Wales. And look out for these signs which tell you that you are entering open access land:

In actual fact there are lots of other footpaths which though not rights of way are open to the public, and these are normally sign posted or have maps posted in the centre of villages, by commons etc to show you where these are; discretionary footpaths, footpaths opened by farmers as part of Countryside Stewardship schemes, etc

[+The Flying Boots]

 

The Canonballs Cache (GCQFPG) is a good example (sorry Write and Mane)

I've worked out the solution, but after looking at the spot on GoogleEarth, I'm worried about how to get there!

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Don't worry about the above cache, having just been there I can vouch for it being very close to a piblic right of way. Using Ordnance Survey Explorer map 166 Rhondda & Merthyr Tydfil will get you there with no problems at all.

[+Cooties!]

All were very helpful links. Thanks!

[+Happy Humphrey]

I would recommend the Ramblers' Association web site for definitive and clear access info;

 

RA.

 

In practice, British walkers (and geocachers) enjoy almost complete access to anywhere except very small areas - which are often marked on the map (military areas, for instance). Even though land may be "owned" privately, there's nothing to stop you walking across it as long as you act with common sense, don't violate the residents' privacy and don't damage anything (e.g. climbing drystone walls!). Unlike in the US, there's a general attitude that we are free to go where we want. The CRoW makes this official in the most popular areas, but in practice has meant little change. The worst you can expect is to be made to feel unwelcome with the odd “Trespassers will be prosecuted” sign: if you're not actually damaging anything, there's nothing the landowner can do (except shout "get orff moi laand!").

 

Usually, there's a decent footpath nearby anyway, so you rarely need to worry even about this.

 

From the RA web site;

 

Trespass

 

If you are on private land where (or when) access rights or other public access arrangements don't apply, or you fail to comply with the conditions of access rights, for example by acting irresponsibly, the landowner could claim you were trespassing. In most cases this is a civil rather than a criminal matter, so signs stating “Trespassers will be prosecuted” are normally meaningless.

 

In England and Wales, the landowner can use reasonable force, such as taking you by the arm, to get you to leave. In Scotland, the Outdoor Access Code advises landowners never to use force. A landowner could also seek an injunction or, in Scotland, an interdict against you returning to the same land, or attempt to sue you for damages, but the lack of cases suggests that this is unlikely in the case of harmless recreational use of land.

 

The exception is on certain special areas such as land around railways, airports, ports and military land, where it’s a criminal offence to walk without permission: such land is usually fenced off and clearly marked.

 

HH

Edited August 4, 2006 by Happy Humphrey

[+doctor scotland]

I would recommend the Ramblers' Association web site for definitive and clear access info;

 

RA.

 

In practice, British walkers (and geocachers) enjoy almost complete access to anywhere except very small areas - which are often marked on the map (military areas, for instance). Even though land may be "owned" privately, there's nothing to stop you walking across it as long as you act with common sense, don't violate the residents' privacy and don't damage anything (e.g. climbing drystone walls!). Unlike in the US, there's a general attitude that we are free to go where we want. The CRoW makes this official in the most popular areas, but in practice has meant little change. The worst you can expect is to be made to feel unwelcome with the odd “Trespassers will be prosecuted” sign: if you're not actually damaging anything, there's nothing the landowner can do (except shout "get orff moi laand!").

 

Usually, there's a decent footpath nearby anyway, so you rarely need to worry even about this.

 

From the RA web site;

 

Trespass

 

If you are on private land where (or when) access rights or other public access arrangements don't apply, or you fail to comply with the conditions of access rights, for example by acting irresponsibly, the landowner could claim you were trespassing. In most cases this is a civil rather than a criminal matter, so signs stating “Trespassers will be prosecuted” are normally meaningless.

 

In England and Wales, the landowner can use reasonable force, such as taking you by the arm, to get you to leave. In Scotland, the Outdoor Access Code advises landowners never to use force. A landowner could also seek an injunction or, in Scotland, an interdict against you returning to the same land, or attempt to sue you for damages, but the lack of cases suggests that this is unlikely in the case of harmless recreational use of land.

 

The exception is on certain special areas such as land around railways, airports, ports and military land, where it’s a criminal offence to walk without permission: such land is usually fenced off and clearly marked.

 

HH

 

Under the current Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 - a landowner does not have the option to use 'reasonable force'.

Most jurisdictions do not allow "self-help" to remove trespassers. The usual procedure is to ask the trespassing person to leave, then to call the police if they refuse to leave.

 

As long as the trespasser is not posing an immediate threat, they cannot be removed by force. It is usually illegal to arrest a trespasser and hold them on the property until law enforcement arrives as this defeats the purpose of allowing them to cure the trespass by leaving.

 

However, if the trespasser has the specific intention of disrupting, intimidating, or obstructing someone from going about their lawful activity, this in practice becomes 'aggravated trespass' - under section 68 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994.

 

I know this from experience as an ex photojournalist, and I reckon it'd be hard for a cacher to get pulled up for any of this!

[+NickandAliandEliza]

Under the current Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 - a landowner does not have the option to use 'reasonable force'.

 

Who knows what the law is in Scotland. In England and Wales, on private land (where there are no rights of access etc)- landowners most definately can use reasonable force to eject you. Simple trespass - as in the case of a cacher going onto private land - has very little to do with the CJ & PO Act. Unless of course they wanted to have a rave whilst caching or decided to set up a big camp in the field, cause a nuisance, interfere with a lawful pursuit, etc etc! If you refuse to leave, the landowner can use reasonable force to remove you. They wouldn't need to call the police.

 

As for the 'most jurisdictions' not allowing 'self help'......... If the police are called to a civil trespass where no criminal offences are committed, they act as observers - there to prevent a breach of the peace. If they assist with the ejection of a civil trespasser (again where no criminal offences are committed), they are acting outside their duty and become agents of the landowner. These are basics that you learn in the first 2 weeks of Hendon. 'Not allowing' doesn't come into it. It's the law that they can - and they do.

 

As there are no mountains, moorland or similar where I work I don't claim to be an expert on the Rights to Roam Act. But by and large all land is owned by someone.

 

I'm surprised that an ex-photojournalist wouldn't know all this. Otherwise you would all be sitting in the back garden of David and Victorias, rather than outside the front gates wouldn't you?!?!?!?

 

PS - and if you don't believe me......have a look here

Edited August 5, 2006 by Nick & Ali

[+Cooties!]

Well, the topic has gotten much more in-depth than I needed.

 

I don't expect that we'll need to be "forcibly removed"

 

I'll be closing the topic now...