Letterbox Hybrids: Getting Creative With The Cinderella Cache Type

[+Jango & Boba Fett]

Contrary to what I've read elsewhere in the Forums there really aren't that many LB Hybrids in the United Kingdom, and outside of dartmoor (where there are 1000s) there are only a couple of hundred regular Letterboxes (some of which are also listed on GC.com) - most of the traditional Letterboxes on Dartmoor aren't listed online at all.

 

But it seems to us that it is possible to get really creative with this Cache Type because:

• You get to design a stamp (as well as the hunt and the container) - which is great fun for kids,
  
• Collecting the prints from stamps is much more fun than hording bits of broken McD toys
  
• Within limits a LB Hybrid can have elements of a Puzzle or Multi not just be a special kind of Trad
  
• You can also get creative describing how to find the cache location, as you are not compelled to give the actual coordinates of the hide, as long as you describe the route to it from a set of coors
  

We can't understand why there are so few LB Hybrids given that the creative possibilities are potentially so great. So as a starter here are some of the stamps we've either designed or collected:

And for a starter idea we're planning a a small series where each of the first 4 caches is a LB Hybrid containing a stamp of a jigsaw peice with part of the clue to the location of the bonus cache. To find the Bonus Cache you will have to reassembling the jigsaw which we've based on this template:

Has anyone else either set, found or come up with a creative idea for LB Hybrids, and why aren't there more?

[Keystone]

• You can also get creative describing how to find the cache location, as you are not compelled to give the actual coordinates of the hide, as long as you describe the route to it from a set of coors
  

Hi, I'm just posting to highlight the above statement as it relates to the Listing Guidelines for Letterbox Hybrid Caches, which state:

 

Letterbox hybrids are a mixture of letterbox and geocache. They should contain a signature stamp that stays with the box, and they must conform to the guidelines for traditional caches and therefore must contain a logbook. They must be referenced by latitude and longitude, not just clues. Whether or not the letterbox hybrid contains trade items is up to the owner. In most cases personal stamp and personal logbook are not necessary to be a seeker of a letterbox hybrid.

(Emphasis mine)

 

It is a *very* common error for hiders of LB hybrids to assume that the clues can be solely letterbox-style, and I wanted to draw attention to that. So, in brainstorming ideas in this thread, please bear in mind that GPS use must be an integral part of the cache hunt for a letterbox hybrid. You can meet this requirement, for example, by using latitude and longitude coordinates to navigate the finder to a random tree in the middle of the forest, from which point the letterbox-style clues would commence. This is the alternative referenced correctly by Jango & Boba Fett. Or, you could provide the letterbox clues in the cache description, but put the coordinates written out in the encrypted hint section. There are no doubt other ways to mix the two finding styles together.

Edited August 2, 2006 by Keystone

[+Kit Fox]

This was my very first attempt at carving a rubber stamp. Clearly I cut too much rubber near the fox's front leg. I have big plans for my first Letterbox Hybrid. The plans shall remain secret.

 

Edited August 2, 2006 by Kit Fox

[+briansnat]

It is a *very* common error for hiders of LB hybrids to assume that the clues can be solely letterbox-style, and I wanted to draw attention to that.

 

Where the misunderstanding comes is that some people think that a letterbox hybrid is a geocache that is found like a letterbox. It is actually a geocache AND a letterbox, not a geocache that is LIKE a letterbox.

 

As far as the OP's question about why there aren't more, I think its because most geocachers either don't know about letterboxing, or don't fully understand it. I've found that only a small portion of geocachers also participate in letterboxing.

[+The Leprechauns]

Where the misunderstanding comes is that some people think that a letterbox hybrid is a geocache that is found like a letterbox. It is actually a geocache AND a letterbox, not a geocache that is LIKE a letterbox.

Right on, briansnat!

[+Jango & Boba Fett]

Where the misunderstanding comes is that some people think that a letterbox hybrid is a geocache that is found like a letterbox. It is actually a geocache AND a letterbox, not a geocache that is LIKE a letterbox.

The fact that the front end/homepage of the www.Geocaching.com website is not very intuitive only adds to the problem. For instance, another local cacher who also caches with his preteen son, and myself have asked lots of ordinary local cachers (<200 finds, never visit Forums or attend Events) and most of them assume that there are only two types of cache Traditionals and Really Hard Stuff. I would challenge anyone to try and find these three (strangely confusing) descriptions of what a Letterbox Hybrid is just by navigating from the GC.com homepage. They are all from the GC.com website:

letterbox(ing)

 

Letterboxing is similar to Geocaching, but you use a series of clues to find a container. Once you find the container (or letterbox), you take a carved stamp from the box and stamp your personal logbook. You then take your carved stamp and stamp the letterbox's log book. See Letterboxing North America for more info.

Letterbox Hybrid

 

A letterbox is another form of treasure hunting using clues instead of coordinates. In some cases, however, a letterbox has coordinates, and the owner has made it a letterbox and a geocache. To read more about letterboxing, visit the Letterboxing North America web site.

Letterbox Hybrid

 

Letterboxing is another form of treasure hunting that uses clues to direct hunters to a hidden container. Each letterbox contains a stamp which is the signature for that box. Most letterboxers have their own personal stamps and personal logbooks. They stamp the letterbox logbook with their personal stamp, and use the stamp contained in the letterbox to “sign” their personal logbook.

 

Letterbox hybrids are a mixture of letterbox and geocache. They should contain a signature stamp that stays with the box, and they must conform to the guidelines for traditional caches and therefore must contain a logbook. They must be referenced by latitude and longitude, not just clues. Whether or not the letterbox hybrid contains trade items is up to the owner. In most cases personal stamp and personal logbook are not necessary to be a seeker of a letterbox hybrid.

Remember no Googling :D

 

So just to make sure we're all clear on that a Letterbox Hybrid (LB Hybrid)is:

• a LB Hybrid is type of GeoCache which is listed on a Geocaching listings site and has a rubber stamp relating to the cache inside the cache container. (In the UK the Reviewers, quite helpfully, insist that it also have an inkpad - Letterboxing letterboxes mostly don't have ink pads).
  
• most LB Hybrid are a variation of the Traditional cache type although it is quite possible to have a LB Hybrid which is a variation (within reason) of the Multicache or Unknown cache types.
  
• LB Hybrid may be dual listed with a traditional Letterboxing group but this is not a requirement; LB Hybrids are primarily a type of GeoCache rather than a type of Letterboxing letterbox.
  
• the cache listing for a LB Hybrid must have a set of coordinates to be navigated to by GPSr even if the final approach to the cache follows some kind of verbal description (just as it would for an Unknown cache)
  

[+Jango & Boba Fett]

My you're all quiet over that side of the pond, guess I now know why Letterbox Hybrids are the Cinderella cache type as no one apart from Kit Fox has been able to think of any ideas, must be the heat I guess. Anyway here's another two that I've picked up courtesy of a Canadian and an 11 year old:

1. Geo-Post Office franking stamp to stamp your post card with when you pop it into the cache container, to prove that it has travelled by Geo-Post.
   
2. Egg Stamps, these are tiny round (dia 10mm) stamps that were originally designed to be used on eggs but now get used for stamping personal approval on documents or plans. You can have them made up by a Rubber Stamp company, they are self inking and (I know this will make your ears prick up) they are small enough to go in a microcache as they are only about 20mm high. Just think if it was a requirement that every 3rd micro was a LB Hybrid we might get a lot more LB Hybrids.
   

- awaiting a flood of corespondence now -

[+briansnat]

Where the misunderstanding comes is that some people think that a letterbox hybrid is a geocache that is found like a letterbox. It is actually a geocache AND a letterbox, not a geocache that is LIKE a letterbox.

The fact that the front end/homepage of the www.Geocaching.com website is not very intuitive only adds to the problem. For instance, another local cacher who also caches with his preteen son, and myself have asked lots of ordinary local cachers (<200 finds, never visit Forums or attend Events) and most of them assume that there are only two types of cache Traditionals and Really Hard Stuff. I would challenge anyone to try and find these three (strangely confusing) descriptions of what a Letterbox Hybrid is just by navigating from the GC.com homepage. They are all from the GC.com website:

letterbox(ing)

 

Letterboxing is similar to Geocaching, but you use a series of clues to find a container. Once you find the container (or letterbox), you take a carved stamp from the box and stamp your personal logbook. You then take your carved stamp and stamp the letterbox's log book. See Letterboxing North America for more info.

Letterbox Hybrid

 

A letterbox is another form of treasure hunting using clues instead of coordinates. In some cases, however, a letterbox has coordinates, and the owner has made it a letterbox and a geocache. To read more about letterboxing, visit the Letterboxing North America web site.

Letterbox Hybrid

 

Letterboxing is another form of treasure hunting that uses clues to direct hunters to a hidden container. Each letterbox contains a stamp which is the signature for that box. Most letterboxers have their own personal stamps and personal logbooks. They stamp the letterbox logbook with their personal stamp, and use the stamp contained in the letterbox to “sign” their personal logbook.

 

Letterbox hybrids are a mixture of letterbox and geocache. They should contain a signature stamp that stays with the box, and they must conform to the guidelines for traditional caches and therefore must contain a logbook. They must be referenced by latitude and longitude, not just clues. Whether or not the letterbox hybrid contains trade items is up to the owner. In most cases personal stamp and personal logbook are not necessary to be a seeker of a letterbox hybrid.

Remember no Googling

 

So just to make sure we're all clear on that a Letterbox Hybrid (LB Hybrid)is:

• a LB Hybrid is type of GeoCache which is listed on a Geocaching listings site and has a rubber stamp relating to the cache inside the cache container. (In the UK the Reviewers, quite helpfully, insist that it also have an inkpad - Letterboxing letterboxes mostly don't have ink pads).
  
• most LB Hybrid are a variation of the Traditional cache type although it is quite possible to have a LB Hybrid which is a variation (within reason) of the Multicache or Unknown cache types.
  
• LB Hybrid may be dual listed with a traditional Letterboxing group but this is not a requirement; LB Hybrids are primarily a type of GeoCache rather than a type of Letterboxing letterbox.
  
• the cache listing for a LB Hybrid must have a set of coordinates to be navigated to by GPSr even if the final approach to the cache follows some kind of verbal description (just as it would for an Unknown cache)
  

 

 

I find the three descriptions to be pretty clear and consistant. A letterbox hybrid is simply a geocache and a letterbox. From geocaching.com's point of view it needs to have, at minum, a stamp. Any letterboxer will tell you that a letterbox without a stamp is not a real letterbox. It would be like a geocache without a logbook.

 

It's not a requirement on this website for the LB hybrids to be cross listed on a letterbox site, but it wouldn't make sense to create a letterbox hybrid if you didn't cross list it. Otherwise how are letterboxers supposed to find it?

 

As far as this website is concerned, a LB hybrid is indeed primarily a type of geocache. If you go to a LB website, the same container will be just another letterbox.

[+ar_kayaker]

It might have to do with the cost of the ruber stamp. I checked into them at the local office supply store and getting one made costs about $50 for even the smallest stamp. I can't imaging the cost of a custom made jigsaw stamp.

 

Of course if you are crafty and can make your own stamper....I have no idea what the costs there would be.

[+Kit Fox]

It might have to do with the cost of the ruber stamp. I checked into them at the local office supply store and getting one made costs about $50 for even the smallest stamp. I can't imaging the cost of a custom made jigsaw stamp.

 

Of course if you are crafty and can make your own stamper....I have no idea what the costs there would be.

 

I bought a Speedball Speedy-Stamp #4100 kit, and it cost me a total of $12.00. My wife already had the ink pad.

[+Jango & Boba Fett]

It might have to do with the cost of the ruber stamp. I checked into them at the local office supply store and getting one made costs about $50 for even the smallest stamp. I can't imaging the cost of a custom made jigsaw stamp.

 

Of course if you are crafty and can make your own stamper....I have no idea what the costs there would be.

Wow, many thanks ar_kayaker for posting, I was a bit afraid that all those big guys stomping around in here doing there no ask me I really know what a LB Hybrid is might be putting the more creative types off.

 

Must admit that that we just went to our local rubber stamp maker for our first few and they cost about $10 each. However we've now found a mail order company that will do an A5 or A4 sized sheet (210x149mm & 297x210mm) of stamps for under £30 - using the McDs BigMac conversion method (rather than the official exchange rate) that means that a similarly priced service for you should cost under $30. I've teamed up with another local cacher who goes caching with his kids and we are gradually putting together our art work for a sheet of stamps. By our reckoning that should work out at around £1 or $1.75 for the rubber impression which has a strong adhesive on the back, and we plan to mount them on small wooden blocks (hard wood). The people we are using are in Devon England but they have supplied stamps to Germany, you would just have to pay by PayPal.

 

I have just been for a Google and found several online stamp makers who would make a 38mm x 38mm stamp for under $9 including postage in the Lower 48, or you could try the maker we are using where it would cost you $37.60 for a 210x149mm rubber sheet of stamps.

 

Anyway lets hear all your imaginative ideas. As I said right at the top we (Jango & Boba Fett and Shannock) are family GeoCachers who think that LB Hybrids are really fun and whose kids particularly like to be able to collect there own copy of the stamp. We've had some great positive ideas from other UK cachers but posted this thread because we thought that US and other worldwide cachers might have come across or thought up some very creative ideas too.

[+briansnat]

It might have to do with the cost of the ruber stamp. I checked into them at the local office supply store and getting one made costs about $50 for even the smallest stamp. I can't imaging the cost of a custom made jigsaw stamp.

 

Of course if you are crafty and can make your own stamper....I have no idea what the costs there would be.

 

It cost me 50 cents for a rubber eraser and $6 for some carving tools to make my personal stamp. My wife bought a block of rubber stamp material for $4. I could make 3-4 stamps (depending on size) for that $4.

 

You don't need to be Van Gough to make your own stamps. I have zero artistic ability so my stamp is very simple. The LBNA site has a good tutorial about making your own stamp.

Edited August 3, 2006 by briansnat

[+MountainMudbug]

I have hidden letterboxes and one letterbox-hybrid geocache. I've carved almost all of my stamps out of cheap rubber erasers (FYI, this is a great time of year to buy them with all the 'back-to-school' stuff available in most stores.

I use an exacto knife and a cheap Speedball carving tool set (this is better for more detailed images and especially text carving, gives you more control).

 

Unfortunately, the LB-hybrid cache I hid was quickly muggled, apparently by a homeless person who stumbled across it after establishing his 'camp' next to my hiding spot I knew I should have kept it higher up the hill where I originally stashed it, away from the flat area..... oh well. I never even got to check the logbook and look at the few stamps that finders had entered

Also unfortunately, I don't have a pic to show of the stamp that was in the hybrid. For some reason I didn't remember to stamp it into my own LB notebook, duh! It was cool, too. It was an image of a giant statue that you passed on your search for the hybrid. *sigh*

 

Anyway, here is a pic of the hybrid container before I stuffed it with trades:

I used a large plastic canister for the 'cache' part, then secured an Altoids tin inside the canister to hold the LB stamp and logbook. I figured by keeping the LB part 'separate' inside the cache, that cachers might be less inclined to mistake the LB stamp as a trade item.

I guess it would have worked, but I'll never know until I hide another hybrid.

 

Here are a few more stamps I've carved for letterboxes and hitch-hikers (those are the LB version of Travel Bugs). "MountainMudbug" and "TigerShark" are mine and my husband's signature stamps (I do have another LB identity, but it is a 'secret' )

 

I have considered an idea similar to your triangle puzzle, in which each separate LB or LB-hybrid would have a different piece and once all were found, they'd all create a completed image. But I haven't gotten around to it yet. Maybe someday!

[TCE]

I haven't had time to cache or box for a while. But, I do prefer boxing to caching. I just take the GPS along on the boxing trip

 

I found that I can get a sheet/brick of rubber/stamp material for about $6 at the cheapest, and can make 4-6 nice size stamps from it. On a large block of rubber/stamp material I can get about a dozen stamps off it fairly easily. I just use an x-acto knife for the carving.

 

And, yes, the turtorial mentioned in the previous post is good, and helped me to make my first ones.

 

Happy caching & boxing! - TCE

[+DeRock & The Psychic Cacher]

We really like letterbox hybrids. Searching for them is very different from a traditional cache hunt, a more enjoyable challenge for us.

 

We enjoy it so much we created our own, Bellah's Letterbox, named after our dog who loves to cache with us. The stamp in the box is a paw print.

 

I must confess our own stamp (which we do carry all the time) is a cheap pre made one.

 

I think the reason more people don't hunt/hide letterbox hybrids is that they are so different to find. And the fact that they feel self conscience about not having a stamp.

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

[+Dew Crew]

It might have to do with the cost of the ruber stamp. I checked into them at the local office supply store and getting one made costs about $50 for even the smallest stamp. I can't imaging the cost of a custom made jigsaw stamp.

 

Of course if you are crafty and can make your own stamper....I have no idea what the costs there would be.

 

It cost me 50 cents for a rubber eraser and $6 for some carving tools to make my personal stamp. My wife bought a block of rubber stamp material for $4. I could make 3-4 stamps (depending on size) for that $4.

 

You don't need to be Van Gough to make your own stamps. I have zero artistic ability so my stamp is very simple. The LBNA site has a good tutorial about making your own stamp.

Thanks for the tutorial! If you don't mind me asking where did she get that block of rubber stamp? I already looked at a few places, but we don't have a craft store up here.

 

Thanks!

[J.A.R.S.]

 

Thanks for the tutorial! If you don't mind me asking where did she get that block of rubber stamp? I already looked at a few places, but we don't have a craft store up here.

 

Thanks!

 

Try white erasers. That's what I use for most of my carved stamps. Sometimes white erasers are too small for the image I want to carve so then I use Nasco's Safety-Kut (I buy it online and have it mailed to me). It comes in a variety of sizes. The postcard size is handy, it can be cut it into smaller pieces depending on the size you need.

 

Here's a link to the Safety-Kut catalogue page:

http://www.enasco.com/artsandcrafts/Produc....do?sku=9704655

 

Also, here's a nice chart that goes over some of the more popular carving mediums (including white erasers and Safety Kut):

http://www.ruthannzaroff.com/carving/how-to3.htm

 

J.A.R.S.

[+Dew Crew]

 

Thanks for the tutorial! If you don't mind me asking where did she get that block of rubber stamp? I already looked at a few places, but we don't have a craft store up here.

 

Thanks!

 

Try white erasers. That's what I use for most of my carved stamps. Sometimes white erasers are too small for the image I want to carve so then I use Nasco's Safety-Kut (I buy it online and have it mailed to me). It comes in a variety of sizes. The postcard size is handy, it can be cut it into smaller pieces depending on the size you need.

 

Here's a link to the Safety-Kut catalogue page:

http://www.enasco.com/artsandcrafts/Produc....do?sku=9704655

 

Also, here's a nice chart that goes over some of the more popular carving mediums (including white erasers and Safety Kut):

http://www.ruthannzaroff.com/carving/how-to3.htm

 

J.A.R.S.

Thanks!

[+emb021]

Thanks for the tutorial! If you don't mind me asking where did she get that block of rubber stamp? I already looked at a few places, but we don't have a craft store up here.

 

Thanks!

 

Michael's Craft Store is a good source of stuff. Look for 'speedball' as a maker of rubber stamp stuff.