Curious

[+Firefighter Skippy]

I'm curious as to have many people dig, and how deep when looking for marks? Also,what are some of your methods for finding these marks?

I only look for surface marks as I am not equiped to find burried mark. I also worry about disturbing/displacing a mark. Am I the only one ?

[+seventhings]

Firefighter Skippy -

 

I'll dig, but only if I am very certain that I have, by either probing with a weeding tool or with a good return on my metal detector, found the mark. That is, I won't dig to find a mark but I'll dig to uncover one once I'm sure I've found it.

 

I won't dig on private residential property or in places, like the courthouse lawn or a public park, where my activities may be overly disruptive. But I'll dig on a highway right-of-way in a heartbeat.

 

Very often, benchmarks are one to six inches below the surface. These are no problem whatsoever - it takes only a few seconds to get to them and digging can be done and cleaned up in less than a minute. Occasionally, marks are more than six inches below the surface. I usually don't look very hard for these - too much trouble. I'll take a look around the area in the hope that a survey crew has uncovered the mark for me but, unless the location is ideal, I won't start a new excavation myself. [i have recovered 6 - 10 buried marks that were serendipitously uncovered by survey crews and the like.]

 

I've dug for several hundred marks (usually in the one to three inch subsurface range), with my deepest recovery at about one foot (on a large triangular "island" formed by the intersection of two secondary highways in rural Delaware - perfect location).

 

Method: Find the location using the description in the datasheet then probe with a weeding tool. If the weeding tool doesn't hit something very solid, get the metal detector out.

 

When I dig, I do take care not to gouge the disk with the shovel, and I won't use much leverage force when digging so as not to disturb the disk's mounting.

 

Will

 

p.s. - I carry a weeding tool, metal detector, garden trowel and a shovel with a long, narrow blade.

Edited March 22, 2006 by seventhings

[Bill93]

I usually am no more agressive than Will described. I dig, but only when I am very sure I won't hit a fiber optic, phone, or power cable. Pay a lot of attention to the signs and connection boxes up and down the road right of way to be alert for them.

 

I have done almost all of my digging, even when I went a foot deep, with a garden trowel. I figure the chances of damaging a cable or disk are less with that than with a spade. It takes a little longer, but the control is worth it.

 

Definitely carry a probe of some kind and don't dig until the probe tells you there is something there.

[Photobuff]

I do pretty much as described above. Normally marks will be close to the surface, though there's one I've been after nearby that might be a foot or so down. That can be beyond metal detector range, and the probe rod becomes less useful in rocky soil. With the landowners permission, I've been doing some pretty extensive digging, but that's an unusual exception. Because only one landmark still exists, I've been working a trench about a foot wide, a foot deep, and 10' or so long. I think I found the pouring that held the witness post, but no benchmark. With more experience and the right preparation, my confidence is usually high that I've got the position of the mark down to a few inches when I probe. That was the case recently, but it took me a bit to realize the mark had been destroyed, and I was probing and detecting a horizontal cement post, and a edge-on disk. It's important to know what you're looking for, but also important to be open to what might have happened since the mark was monumented! My favorite digging tool is a 3" wide straight spade with a short (2') handle, and I always start offset from where the metal detector and probe rod suggest the mark is, to avoid scratching or damaging it. Bottom line is that many surviving marks in this area are buried, so digging is essential if one intends to find anything of interest.

[+Klemmer]

About 2 inches max, so far. I usually carry a small light weight hard plastic garden shovel in my backpack anyway for -- uhh... "other wilderness uses". I haven't done any serious digging so far, but if the right spot tempted me, I think I would!

[+Shorelander]

As a beginner, I'll tell you, I've dug only on one trip, and the experience sort of altered my feelings. It was on the right of way of a semi-controlled access highway (Rte 1 in Massachusetts - it has turn-offs for stores, but no access to local roads and, luckily, a sidewalk). I did some digging off the road, found nothing, and afterwards was asked by a cop what I was doing. I explained, and he seemed satisfied with the explanation, but my new rule of thumb is that if I can't dig for it using a plastic spoon or my foot, that I should avoid it. I know I should have been smarter about it, no doubt, and I think my behavior has changed accordingly, for the better. I assume what happened was that someone driving by saw me and called 911 (I don't think the cop actually saw me, but was responding to reports), but I don't want to waste civic resources again like that or scare people.

Edited March 22, 2006 by Shorelander

[+Astro_D]

We just did our first digs this past weekend. Only had to go through 2 inches of still frozen dirt. Before we dig, we try to get as close to ground zero as possible with the coords and then pay close attention to the description to ensure we are in the right location. If we can't readily see the BM, we will then take out the metal detector and see if we get any beeps. If we are confident that the beep is most likely the BM, we'll slowly start scraping the dirt away with a garden tool.

 

As mentioned, we do not dig directly under the 'beep', we off center it a bit so we don't damage the mark. Most areas we had to dig so far have been road right aways, and other public property. We do what we feel comfortable doing. And try not to dig up to big an area. After digging, if we did not find the mark, we replace the dirt and grass. We found after explaning what we were doing and our respect for private property etc., to enquiring onlookers, they tend to just shrug their shoulders and leave. Leaving us free to continue.

[+BuckBrooke]

I've been carrying a metal bladed hand garden trowel, which doesn't handle enough volume for my taste. Most of my digging has been along highway ROW fences, where they graded the ROW and the dirt piled up along the fence, burying the station. I can usually tell, if there isn't enough fence showing, and I've had to dig a foot or so. Sandy dirt that keeps falling back in. I always am careful around fiber optic and natural gas lines, though. Take it easy.

[Papa-Bear-NYC]

My home territory is New York City, so there's not much digging (maybe a few inches of leaves in Riverside Park). But when I had to dig, it was a real chore. A rivet was mounted on a retaining wall off the side of a railroad. (KU0890) The wall had an old fence on it. Problem is, the fence was there but no wall. The entire wall had been burried by about 2-3 inches. So you say 2-3 inches, what's the bid deal? The big deal is I had a small garden trowel and the fill was almost entirely ballast! Ever try to dig ballast with a garden trowel? Happy ending: I found the rivet (although it was bent).

 

Here's the scene:

 

(click for full size)

 

But horray! Here's the rivet:

 

(click for full size)

 

Pb

Edited March 23, 2006 by Papa-Bear-NYC

[mloser]

On roadways or beside railbeds I have been known to get out the regular sized shovel I keep in the trunk for just such as occasion. My most recent and deepest "dig" was about 2 feet. Unlike seventhings, most of the digging was on speculation--I just figured it had to be where I was digging. After I had cleared away a lot of dirt the metal detector helped me pinpoint the disk. See KW2661 for pics of how far I dug. This was with a camp shovel that I keep in my benchmarking backpack at all times.

 

One I dug for with permission was KW0976. It is actually on highway right of way, but I accessed it through a nursery. The owner was aware of there being marks there but had said someone looked for this one and didn't find it. He was interested in seeing it after I dug it out. I was interested in passing out, as the day was very hot and I overworked in digging because I was in a hurry to pick my daughter up from nearby soccer practice.

 

I dug up all three marks of tri-station BOWER with the owner's permission AND HELP. He got out the shovel and uncovered the first one, and I did the other two.

 

I will not dig without permission of the property owner, or on properties like seventhings mentioned--court lawns, etc. I have been known to surreptitiously cut three sides of a square around a mark, peel back the sod, take a pic, then replace the flap. With care I can leave little evidence of my visit.

[+Kewaneh & Shark]

If I feel that the mark is most likely gone, I might scuff up the surface, or dig/probe a few inches into the ground, but if I'm confident that the mark may be there, or if the ground is soft, I'll dig down a foot or more. Farming equipment routinely cover and/or bury marks and I've found many of them them that deep. I found GU1617 down about a foot and a half. Luckily, the soil was sandy and the two witness posts were a strong indication that it would be there. I know I've dug deeper for others.

 

I don't tend to do a lot of digging if I'm on my motorcycle (not many tools with me), but occasionally, I'll be in my survey truck when I'm searching for benchmarks. Digging for survey marks is part of the job and a compliment of shovels, picks, and bars make digging for marks easier. Luckily, most benchmarks are on the surface, but many cadastral marks (section corners & property corners) are deep - in the neighborhood of 30"-60" (or more). When the soil is clay or hardpan, it is far from fun. If I know the mark is deep, or the soil conditions are going to be ugly, I'll use a small jack hammer, and I have used a back hoe more than once too. The deepest I've personally dug for a survey mark using only hand tools was 70" (5.833') through clay and mud. It made for a long day.

 

I might also mention that it was over 100 degrees that day.

 

Compared to that, all my benchmark digs have been easy.

 

- Kewaneh

[+Firefighter Skippy]

Wow, I am out of the league you guys are in. I don't have a metal detector, and I don't carry any digging equipment, so I just try to go by discriptions and guesstamate the distances which are most often in meters around here. And let me tell you, it's tough going by some discriptions that are 75 yrs old with all the suburban growth in CT.

[Difficult Run]

Firefighter Skippy,

 

Most of the marks out there can be probed fairly quickly, (unless you are in a very rocky area). Through trial and error, you can probe the ground and "sense" if the tip is touching wood, rock, metal and even glass, just by the sound it makes. A 1/4 inch stainless steel rod works best.

 

All it takes is a little practice.

 

~ Mitch ~