Geo-rant

[+johmer79]

I've been thinking about this for a while now, and I just finally made the decision to write something about it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love getting FTFs on caches, but there are a few rules that I like to follow when finding a cache.

 

1.) I like to follow the rules of geocaching.com.

2.) I like to follow the rules of the places where the caches are located.

 

Since we are all geocachers, we're supposed to adhere to these rules, right? Then why is it that there are some people breaking those rules just so they can write "FTF!!!!!!!" in their cache logs?

 

There are rules about trespassing, of course, and they can either be to keep you off of private property, or to keep you safe. I have a friend (who I have discussed this with) who went to get a FTF, but found that the area was closed due to construction that had started after the cache owner had placed the cache. He didn't care...he went around the closed signs, went around the construction equipment and found the cache. The next day, someone else went to find it and actually obeyed the signs, and posted a note about it. The cache was subsequently archived, because you're not supposed to be in there.

 

Another time, I was visting back home around Thanksgiving, and a new cache popped up in an area that I was planning on caching the next morning anyway. So we got up earlier, and went to the park where the cache was located. On the park sign, it says "Park closed from dusk to dawn. All violaters will be prosecuted for tresspassing." Since the sun was just coming up, I thought we may be in luck. Unfortunately, someone logged the cache at 2:00 AM, and bragged about how they found it with their flashlights before anyone else could. Last time I checked, the sun isn't up at 2:00 AM in western NY at the end of November.

 

There are several other instances that come to mind, but I don't want to make this ridiculously long.

 

My main point is this. Geocaching hasn't always gotten the greatest attention from law enforcement officials, because people don't always follow the rules. Geocaching doesn't need people entering the grounds of parks that are closed for construction, or closed after a certain time, to get arrested. Then it will get published that the person was trespassing while geocaching. So observe ALL the rules of this sport. Breaking a rule like this is no better than placing a bucket-cache under a bridge. When people are doing things they shouldn't be doing, the sport gets negative publicity that it doesn't need.

 

Just be smart, because getting a FTF isn't worth it if you do it illegally.

[+Squealy]

Just be smart, because getting a FTF isn't worth it if you do it illegally.

I hear what you're saying but to some it is. There are FTF whores everywhere - if it's not important to you or how you play the game then don't let it bother you.

[His Master's Voice]

Just be smart, because getting a FTF isn't worth it if you do it illegally.

I hear what you're saying but to some it is. There are FTF whores everywhere - if it's not important to you or how you play the game then don't let it bother you.

How the FTF and numbers freaks play the game can be important to the integrety of the game. Having had the good fortune of following a power cacher one day this fall, we found a string of caches in plain sight, on the ground asking for muggles to investigate. We rehid everything well. However would it make a difference in the number of caches found for the power cacher to take an extra minute or two on each cache and hide them well?

 

Otherwise I could care less how the power cachers play the game. If they are into massing 1000s of finds go for it. Just how can you enjoy the game if its all a blur??

[+ParrotRobAndCeCe]

Just be smart, because getting a FTF isn't worth it if you do it illegally.

I hear what you're saying but to some it is. There are FTF whores everywhere - if it's not important to you or how you play the game then don't let it bother you.

Unfortunately, negative publicity affects all of us, though.

[+johmer79]

Just be smart, because getting a FTF isn't worth it if you do it illegally.

I hear what you're saying but to some it is. There are FTF whores everywhere - if it's not important to you or how you play the game then don't let it bother you.

Unfortunately, negative publicity affects all of us, though.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I am just as much a FTF whore as anyone else around here, but I don't like seeing people do it in a way that could cause places to second guess letting other people hide caches in the area.

[4wheelin_fool]

My main point is this. Geocaching hasn't always gotten the greatest attention from law enforcement officials, because people don't always follow the rules. Geocaching doesn't need people entering the grounds of parks that are closed for construction, or closed after a certain time, to get arrested. Then it will get published that the person was trespassing while geocaching. So observe ALL the rules of this sport. Breaking a rule like this is no better than placing a bucket-cache under a bridge. When people are doing things they shouldn't be doing, the sport gets negative publicity that it doesn't need.

 

Just be smart, because getting a FTF isn't worth it if you do it illegally.

I couldn't agree more. When they get caught it will make geocaching look bad. In areas where there is no chance of getting caught, writing in the logs that they went in at night when the cache page says "closed at dusk" makes it look bad - as ANYONE with a computer can see this, especially the people who you need to ask for approval to place a cache. A town manager in New Jersey may stumble upon a log on a cache in Florida and decide the entire sport is a bad thing and may attempt to ban it from the town limits.

 

Perhaps caches could be published or approved only in the morning, but that still wont solve the problem.

[Mr.Yuck]

 

Another time, I was visting back home around Thanksgiving, and a new cache popped up in an area that I was planning on caching the next morning anyway.  So we got up earlier, and went to the park where the cache was located.  On the park sign, it says "Park closed from dusk to dawn.  All violaters will be prosecuted for tresspassing."  Since the sun was just coming up, I thought we may be in luck.  Unfortunately, someone logged the cache at 2:00 AM, and bragged about how they found it with their flashlights before anyone else could.  Last time I checked, the sun isn't up at 2:00 AM in western NY at the end of November.

 

I don't know. nor have I ever spoken to the thread starter, but I'm somewhat local to them, and am pretty sure I even know the incident in question I'm quoting above. I can assure them, that locally for us at least, The rabid FTF competition in this particular area didn't even exist 1 year ago. Probably 8 months at most. And yes, if you ain't flashilight caching in the dark at 10:00 PM (or later) or up and out the door at 5:00 AM (also pitch dark this time of year), you will never get an FTF around here. Period. And yes, the vast majority of the FTF's take place in parks that are closed from dawn to dusk. Hell, I even admit trying it once or twice before it occured to me that something wasn't right. So I don't think anyone can argue with the original premise here. But on the bright side, if you look closely, you will see an occasional cache description that states "please respect park hours" or something to that effect.

Edited January 27, 2006 by TheWhiteUrkel

[+briansnat]

I think this will continue until owners start deleting logs for illegal finds.

 

I really can't believe the bozos who break the law, then brag about it in their logs. Park officials and the authorities do read these things. The practice can only be harmful to our sport.

[Mr.Yuck]

I think this will continue until owners start deleting logs for illegal finds.

 

I really can't believe the bozos who break the law, then brag about it in their logs. Park officials and the authorities do read these things.  The practice can only be harmful to our sport.

I dunno man, the mad dash of flashlight FTF seeking cachers in Western N.Y. just sort of happened overnight, and hit us between the eyes like a brick in the head within the past 8 months or so. I can say with a great deal of confidence that the thread starter is talking about This cache which I myself have found, where both the first and second finder talk about caching with flashlights after/before park hours. I didn't mean to imply that every single one of the new caches around here involved flashlight caching FTF hounds violating posted park hours. For example, I hid This cache a few months ago on town land with hiking trails and no posted hours, that was FTF'd by a neighborhood resident at 11:40 PM. But nonetheless, in the current environment around here, he felt the need to go out with a flashlight after 11:00 PM.

 

I don't travel like I used to; but I'd be very interested in hearing from other people here in the all New Jersey OOOOPS I mean Northeast forum . Is there a mad dash of flashlight caching FTF hounds in your area going after every single new listing posted?

Edited January 28, 2006 by TheWhiteUrkel

[4wheelin_fool]

Well, even looking for a "parking lot micro" can get you arrested.

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=121432

[+Mastifflover]

I agree that you should obey all posted hours. But if it is in an area where night caching is allowed I'm all over it in the dark trying to be FTF. In fact it is 2:15 am in PA and I'm getting ready to go look for a cache that was just posted about a 1/2 hour ago.

[+johmer79]

I dunno man, the mad dash of flashlight FTF seeking cachers in Western N.Y. just sort of happened overnight, and hit us between the eyes like a brick in the head within the past 8 months or so. I can say with a great deal of confidence that the thread starter is talking about This cache which I myself have found, where both the first and second finder talk about caching with flashlights after/before park hours.  I didn't mean to imply that every single one of the new caches around here involved flashlight caching FTF hounds violating posted park hours. For example, I hid This cache a few months ago on town land with hiking trails and no posted hours, that was FTF'd by a neighborhood resident at 11:40 PM. But nonetheless, in the current environment around here, he felt the need to go out with a flashlight after 11:00 PM.

 

I don't travel like I used to; but I'd be very interested in hearing from other people here in the all New Jersey OOOOPS I mean Northeast forum  . Is there a mad dash of flashlight caching FTF hounds in your area going after every single new listing posted?

Yeah, that's one of the caches I was talking about. One of the worst parts about that is how it was double-posted on Navicache, and the people that use that site got to it even sooner....but that's another geo-rant altogether.

 

As for other flashlight FTFing, I'm all for it when the cache isn't in a place that has posted hours....as long as I don't look like someone who should be reported by the neighborhood watch.

 

I've heard stories about the WNY FTFing frenzy, but I think it's pretty much the same anywhere. Here in Central PA there are a few people, including myself, who try to get them. We just don't have the multitude of newly placed caches to go crazy over.

[Mr.Yuck]

Yeah, that's one of the caches I was talking about.  One of the worst parts about that is how it was double-posted on Navicache, and the people that use that site got to it even sooner....but that's another geo-rant altogether. 

 

As for other flashlight FTFing, I'm all for it when the cache isn't in a place that has posted hours....as long as I don't look like someone who should be reported by the neighborhood watch. 

 

Whoops. Actually I myself just pulled that stunt today (Navicache FTF).

 

Yeah, I'm for flashlight caching without posted hours as well, it's just that it hit us out of nowhere in these here parts. And I don't remember seeing much of it in other parts of the Northeast in the "old days".

 

[Edit] After a couple of things popped into my head. I obviously have no problem with the Navicache method of looking for FTF's, as they usually approve caches within hours of submittal. Besides, It most likely only happens in Rochester (Navicache World HQ) and Buffalo. No where else in the world. Maybe Germany, as over 1/2 of Navicache listings are there, but who knows.

 

A nice subject for a rant would be people who give the coords to their close friends before the cache is listed on Geocaching.com This has happened to me twice personally, once in WNY, and once in Scranton, Pa. where I was the legitimate first finder. So certainly this has happened to others; the duo in WNY who used to pull ths stunt have done it 4-5 times on each others caches, but not since early 2004, best I can tell. With the current rabid FTF competition in these parts, that one would go over like a lead baloon right about now.

Edited January 30, 2006 by TheWhiteUrkel

[Mr.Yuck]

I agree that you should obey all posted hours. But if it is in an area where night caching is allowed I'm all over it in the dark trying to be FTF. In fact it is 2:15 am in PA and I'm getting ready to go look for a cache that was just posted about a 1/2 hour ago.

Congrats by the way, for the 2:45 AM FTF! Yep, we're all addicted to this wacky little hobby.

[+nikcap]

I think this will continue until owners start deleting logs for illegal finds.

 

I really can't believe the bozos who break the law, then brag about it in their logs. Park officials and the authorities do read these things. The practice can only be harmful to our sport.

The only problem is that cache owners don't have the nerve to call out these logs.

I am guilty of this too.

 

It seems that there are a few FTF hos that get off on claiming that they searched for a cache with a flashlight, or somehow, beat the system by parking illegally.

I saw one log recently where the cacher (not a FTF) claimed to drive down a road for "authorize vehicles only". ???

 

I don't know about most cacher hiders, but personally, I have had conversation with most parks departments, township officials or park rangers in regards to Geocaching. I've assured them that the geocaching community is a bunch that is concerned about the environment and courteous to rules and regulation. More importantly, I state that geocacher are good for the parks because they can act as eyes and ears; we CITO, perform trail maintenance, and usually identify a problem in a park quicker then the public or authorities. Whenever I read a log where it's written that rules where broken, I generally take it as a personally and get pretty burnt up.

 

I've read and heard some crazy, inappropriate things regarding finding a cache. Part of the challenge of finding a cache is finding it with "the rules".

Will anyone take Barry Bonds, Rafaela Palmeiro or Mark McGuire's records seriously?

[+Mastifflover]

I agree that you should obey all posted hours.  But if it is in an area where night caching is allowed I'm all over it in the dark trying to be FTF.  In fact it is 2:15 am in PA and I'm getting ready to go look for a cache that was just posted about a 1/2 hour ago. 

Congrats by the way, for the 2:45 AM FTF! Yep, we're all addicted to this wacky little hobby.

Thanks! It helps that I work 3rd shift during the week so on weekends I don't sleep much.