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Who "owns" Online Cache Logs?

Snoogans

By Snoogans
in General geocaching topics

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Snoogans

+Snoogans

Posted
Posted

Splitting a tangent from the favorite log thread.

 

Here's why:

 

The logs from Quantum Leap could make a novel.

Team Firebird wrote:

I am going to write an ebook with all of them in there, so I need permission from the member.

 

I was going to say "You can use ANY of the logs on Quantum Leap," but it brings up an interesting question. Who owns the logs? Does the finder, or the hider, or BOTH own the logs? I'm thinking both, but others may think differently than I do. OK, Let's face it, most do think differently than me, or there wouldn't be any order to the universe. :D

 

Ultimately, I guess GC.com owns them.

 

:unsure:Well??? What do you think? :rolleyes:

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Prime Suspect

+Prime Suspect

Posted
Posted
Who owns the logs? Does the finder, or the hider, or BOTH own the logs? I'm thinking both, but others may think differently than I do. OK, Let's face it, most do think differently than me, or there wouldn't be any order to the universe. :D

 

Ultimately, I guess GC.com owns them.

 

:unsure:Well??? What do you think? :rolleyes:

It's spelled out quite clearly in the TOU:

 

6. License to Use Submissions

 

All comments, articles, tutorials, screenshots, pictures, graphics, tools, downloads, and all other materials submitted to Groundspeak in connection with the Site or available through the Site (collectively, “Submissions”) remain the property and copyright of the original author. (...)

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CoyoteRed

CoyoteRed

Posted
Posted

Clearly the content belongs to the original author and therefore couldn't be published by a third party without permission.

 

Here's an interesting twist; could you post one of your own caches on your own site and use the logs gathered for that cache at gc.com?

 

Further, is the log a collection of one's own writings like a storage of his adventures, a diary; or is it a communication from the writer to the cache owner?

 

Who owns the physical log?

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Airmapper

+Airmapper

Posted
Posted
Who owns the physical log?

From my understanding, I believe the cache, and the log inside it is my property. In the fact I hid and maintain it, all writings on the physical log are mine. Now the physical ownership of the cache could possibly challenged by the owner of whatever property it sits on.

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Snoogans

+Snoogans

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I was about to lock this thread, having had my question answered by Prime Suspect, BUT leave it to CR to give a reason to press on.

 

I give you the NEW topic of this thread:

 

Here's an interesting twist; could you post one of your own caches on your own site and use the logs gathered for that cache at gc.com?

 

Further, is the log a collection of one's own writings like a storage of his adventures, a diary; or is it a communication from the writer to the cache owner?

 

Who owns the physical log?

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GrizzlyJohn

+GrizzlyJohn

Posted
Posted
Clearly the content belongs to the original author and therefore couldn't be published by a third party without permission.

 

Here's an interesting twist; could you post one of your own caches on your own site and use the logs gathered for that cache at gc.com?

 

Further, is the log a collection of one's own writings like a storage of his adventures, a diary; or is it a communication from the writer to the cache owner?

 

Who owns the physical log?

Physical log belongs to the cache owner.

 

Words inside log belong to the person that wrote them. I don't think it is any different than if I pass you a note, or you buy a book written by someone else.

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Snoogans

+Snoogans

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Who owns the physical log?

I usually divest myself of all feelings of ownership toward a cache even though I consider myself more of a hider than a finder.

 

My caches are gifts to the geocaching community. When one goes missing, my sense of loss is mainly for everyone else. It's easier to handle and makes it much easier when geocaching maggots intentionally mess with a cache for whatever twisted/immature reasons they think they have. :D

 

That said it's hard to NOT feel ownership of the log. I've lost three logs total. One along with a cache was most likely taken by a metal detecting muggle. Two were taken by a local cache maggot and of those I got one returned by the cache maggot when they stole another log along with a bunch of travel bugs, from a different cache TWO YEARS LATER. :P

 

I was very happy to get that log back. It was my very first log book and as such had some more meaning to me.

 

So yes, I do feel ownership of the cache log. I remove them from my caches when they get full for fear of losing them somewhere down the road. They, along with sig items, are the real treasures of geocaching IMO.

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Renegade Knight

+Renegade Knight

Posted
Posted

Online is owned as Prime Suspect Suggested. It's also in the TOS that Groundspeak can use them in virtually anyway they so desire.

 

As for the physical log, Unless you copyright it, you may own the words but you have given the cache owner (and cache maggots who steal the log) the same rights that grounspeak states in their TOS.

 

If a cache owner took the time to have a TOS that applies to the logs...both physical and online I'm certain you have the right to use logs as you suggested. 3rd party TOS would probably quickly get bounced by the site TOS being modified.

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Geo Froggy

+Geo Froggy

Posted
Posted

I believe anything you write, a note, email, log, message on a forum, or book is the intellectual property of the author. It is automatically copyrighted as soon as you write it. I don't see how GC.com can take the written words of anyone and use them without the authors written permission.

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Renegade Knight

+Renegade Knight

Posted
Posted
I believe anything you write, a note, email, log, message on a forum, or book is the intellectual property of the author. It is automatically copyrighted as soon as you write it. I don't see how GC.com can take the written words of anyone and use them without the authors written permission.

Believe it or not, GC.com and any other listing site has to have a TOS That lets them use these logs just to diplay them. Since they can't know what they will do in the future they have to use a blanket statment saying that they can do anything.

 

In a legal world there is no way around not requirning that sort of permission to run a geocaching website.

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The Psion

The Psion

Posted
Posted

It's an issue that we've run into a lot over at a site that I help run. It gets even more complicated with international copyright laws (as a good portion of our membership isn't from the United States).

 

Mostly, it's up the individual site's Terms of Service. It could be worded to go either way (property of the person who wrote it, or property of the server/domain owner).

 

As far as the physical log, I kind of see it like a yearbook, it belongs to the cache owner, but people borrow it to sign it and then pass it on.

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Snoogans

+Snoogans

Posted
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Posted
I don't see how GC.com can take the written words of anyone and use them without the authors written permission.

They can't, without permission. But when you accepted the TOU, you gave them permission.

I agree. We are about done kicking this around unless someone wants to PM a reason to reopen it.

 

Thanks for all of your replies. :lol:

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