Internal Gps Compass

[Alphawolf]

Considering the facts:

1. Internal magnetic compasses are real battery hogs.

2. They require frequent calibration.

3. They can't do anything an $8.00 pocket compass can't do.

4. If the GPS dies, they die too.

5. In serious off-road travel, only a fool would trust an electonic compass as the only compass.

6. They cost way more than a suitable pocket compass.

 

Nope...I wouldn't consider paying for one!

 

But...They are fun to play with!

[Dale_Lynn]

Why would one need a compass.... It usually points you in a straight line over the most impossible terrain you don't want to ever go over....

 

Then again I use the "compass" screen on my Magellean almost exclusively to fine my caches.....

 

Dale

[+techtalkers]

Why would one need a compass

Well, I have a cache that's placed under some very heavy canopy. I took the readings in a nearby meadow, so the description says to walk about 50 feet at a heading of 300 degrees (or something like that).

 

The hint sends the finder to a landmark near the cache, but that's almost a spoiler.

 

Steve

[+IVxIV]

My current GPSr doesn't have a builtin magnetic compass,, but my "next one" will. Currently I carry a mechanical compass in one hand while viewing my GPS in the other. I would think it would be sweet to be able to free up that compass hand lol by having a builtin electronic one.

 

Having said that, even when I do upgrade to a GPSr with builtin electronic compass I would still ALWAYS bring along a mechanical compass as well, for backup.

 

As far as...

3. They can't do anything an $8.00 pocket compass can't do

 

I'm not sure if the GPS models are like some of the Casio wristwatch compasses or not (anyone?) but the Casio's will warn you if it detects abnormal magnetic fields present while you're using it, thus warning you that your compass reading may be compromised. Can your mechanical compass do that?

[Alphawolf]

That's probably ture, but then, there has never been a situation in my off-road travels where it's been a concern. I never use my compass near any vehicles, so the usual cause isn't anywhere around.

 

And no, I don't think any GPS based compasses do that.

[+Pirri]

We're on Geocaching forum here. How can you point out a cache with an traditional compass?

If you have a electronic compass, you have a realiable reading to the cache on your compass, even when you stop walking. Thats why I love it.

For all other purposes a traditional compass is preferable. No batteries needed.

[Alphawolf]

Well, the GPS will tell you the bearing (in degees) to your cache, right? Well, just shoot the bearing with the compass and walk it to the destination, just exactly like you do with the internal compass. Just make sure the GPS is set to Mag. north.

Edited August 10, 2005 by Alphawolf

[+Marky]

Considering the facts:

2.  They require frequent calibration.

Joani and I each have eXplorist 600s and neither of us has had to calibrate the compass once since we got it. Maybe our units are defective...

 

--Marky

[+TotemLake]

Considering the facts:

 

1.  Internal magnetic compasses are real battery hogs.

 

If you're not carrying extra batteries then you're setting yourself up for a DNF anyway so this becomes academic.

 

2.  They require frequent calibration.

 

No they don't. They require a calibration upon change of batteries. If you use the same set of rechargeables and put them in the same slot each time, you will not have to recalibrate.

 

3.  They can't do anything an $8.00 pocket compass can't do.

 

Yes they can. Mine for instance provides Course Over Ground, Points at North at the same time and points at the bearing my waypoint is at the same time providing what I call a live triangulation on the way to the geocache. That little handheld one can't do all that at the same time like the onboard compasses do.

 

4.  If the GPS dies, they die too.

 

No arguement there. I always carry spares to act as backup to get me back out of trouble.

 

5.  In serious off-road travel, only a fool would trust an electonic compass as the only compass.

 

Redundant to 4.

 

6.  They cost way more than a suitable pocket compass.

 

Depends on what you intended to use it for in the first place. That's subjective to personal opinion. Mine is I disagree with this statement. You pay for what you get with it.

 

But...They are fun to play with!

 

And more useful than a standard compass when you consider my points.

 

Nope...I wouldn't consider paying for one!

 

That's subjective too. I would consider it, did consider it, bought into it, and never regretted it.

Edited August 10, 2005 by TotemLake

[Alphawolf]

That little handheld one can't do all that at the same time like the onboard compasses do.

The handheld compass along with my GPS can do that, which is what your doing...A compass in tandem with a GPS

 

If you're not carrying extra batteries then you're setting yourself up for a DNF anyway so this becomes academic.

Well if your batteries die (a lot quicker with the compass) then you are back to that re-calibration issue

 

Depends on what you intended to use it for in the first place.

The only thing any compass knows how to do it to point to magnetic north. My point is, the cheapest pocket compass will do that cheaper than the cheapest internal compass. Any other use for a compass than pointing to magnetic north requires some other things built into it (like a gps receiver, or inclinometer, or sighting mirror or declination adjustment)

Edited August 10, 2005 by Alphawolf

[CenTexDodger]

People here talk about compass calibration as if it is something akin to rocket science or doing your taxes. It is not difficult, you make 2 tight circles to the left (or right)

[Alphawolf]

People here talk about compass calibration as if it is something akin to rocket science or doing your taxes.

 

I WISH my taxes were that quick and easy! Compass calibration is pretty easy to do, it's just something else I don't have to mess with or worry about with my trusty Silva!

[+joe gremlin]

1.  Internal magnetic compasses are real battery hogs.

I've only had experience with an internal electronic compass and so cannot comment on internal magnetics but my experience has been the batteries last plenty long for me.

2.  They require frequent calibration.

In my experience they do not. Furthermore, to me the whole calibration issue is akin to saying 'I will not use laces on my shoes because they require me to retie them frequently.' It's a non-issue to me YMMV.

3.  They can't do anything an $8.00 pocket compass can't do.

I disagree. They can leave the hand that would otherwise be holding said $8 compass free to do other or hold other things. To me, that's important.

4.  If the GPS dies, they die too.

If my GPS dies, my caching day is over by default. Again YMMV.

 

5.  In serious off-road travel, only a fool would trust an electonic compass as the only compass.

We carry a magnetic. We just don't use it much.

 

6.  They cost way more than a suitable pocket compass.

And to me it's worth every penny.

[+TotemLake]

That little handheld one can't do all that at the same time like the onboard compasses do.

The handheld compass along with my GPS can do that, which is what your doing...A compass in tandem with a GPS

 

Except mine is built in which means used with one hand versus two. I've always said I'm a klutz and I can't stand having to make a decision between breaking one toy over another when I stumble. I'd rather keep one hand free to steady myself when the need arises. Your method doesn't allow for that.

 

If you're not carrying extra batteries then you're setting yourself up for a DNF anyway so this becomes academic.

Well if your batteries die (a lot quicker with the compass) then you are back to that re-calibration issue

 

Batttery drain is negligible 6-7 hours versus 7-8 hours. Upon battery switch, I check to see if the compass needs calibration. More times than not, it doesn't. Time lost? An hour maybe. Again, if that hour breaks ya, then you set yourself up for failure.

 

Depends on what you intended to use it for in the first place.

The only thing any compass knows how to do it to point to magnetic north. My point is, the cheapest pocket compass will do that cheaper than the cheapest internal compass. Any other use for a compass than pointing to magnetic north requires some other things built into it (like a gps receiver, or inclinometer, or sighting mirror or declination adjustment)

 

Again, you get what you pay for. If you don't want the bells and whistles, don't pay for it. Having a built-in compass that handles all the things I need it to do at the same time versus using two separate instruments to do the same thing... ummmm the built-in wins hands down for me.

 

==took out a paragraph that had nothing to do with the debate in retrospect.==

 

There are advantages to having the electronic compass. Sure, your standalone can do the same thing... in conjunction with the GPS or in conjunction with the map... but it can't do it all on it's own and that's where your argument fails.

Edited August 10, 2005 by TotemLake

[+WildGooseChase]

3.  They can't do anything an $8.00 pocket compass can't do.

 

When I stop walking the internal compass keeps the arrow pointed at the cache. That in itself is worth the price of the internal compass. I got sick of having to keep moving, or back up and get a running start to keep the arrow on track. Very rarely will I use it for actually finding North.

 

Never will I buy one without an internal compass.

[Alphawolf]

You're just putting up an argumentative statement to justify your thriftiness.

 

 

Not exactly...I have been selling these things for 6 1/2 years now. I have lost track of how many GPS receivers I have owned since then. I teach GPS clinics for a national outdoor outfitters chain and do private lessons as well. Why am I telling you this? I get this question(about internal compasses) about 9 times a week asked of me. It is a fair question from someone shopping for their first receiver, or maybe an upgrade receiver.

 

So, the actual reason I asked it above, is just to get the debate out there so folks that have wondered but not asked could gain some insight. I really do appreciate your opinion and it's totally valid.

 

In case you are wondering what I use, my current arsenal is as follows:

 

Garmin Foretrex 101 (for backpacking it's lightweight and perfect)

Magellan Sporttrack Map

Garmin IQue 3600

Garmin Streetpilot C330

Garmin 60CS (best all around receiver in my opinion)

Magellan Meridian Gold

Garmin etrex (yellow)

 

Software for the GPSRs:

Garmin MetroGuide V6

Garmin City Select V6

Garmin Topo

Garmin National Parks Topo 1:24,000 (West)

Magellan MapSend Topo

Magellan MapSend Streets (Direct Route)

 

and lots of different commercial mapping programs

 

 

(I didn't buy all of these...Some were gifts and some were "trades".) So,

I stand by my previous statement "I wouldn't consider paying for one"...I didn't say I wouldn't own one or use one...

Edited August 10, 2005 by Alphawolf

[+IVxIV]

.. take a walk on the wildside & try a Lowrance out in your travels

 

As I said I'd definitely include an electronic compass in my wishlist for my next upgrade. But this whole issue of "recalibration" does sound a bit unnerving. I could see me needing a GOOD compass reference, and having doubts if my GPSr was correctly calibrated each time I used it.

 

Still, me likes gadgets, so say YEA to a compass, YEA to an altimeter, YEA to barometer, YEA to TFT color screens, and even (in iFinder Phd) YEA to builtin MP3 & audio recording capability

[CenTexDodger]

As I said I'd definitely include an electronic compass in my wishlist for my next upgrade. But this whole issue of "recalibration" does sound a bit unnerving. I could see me needing a GOOD compass reference, and having doubts if my GPSr was correctly calibrated each time I used it.

That is what I was referring to earlier. They don't require you to have a north reference (at least Garmins don't) You just spin the unit twice and it is done.

[+TotemLake]

You're just putting up an argumentative statement to justify your thriftiness.

 

 

Not exactly...I have been selling these things for 6 1/2 years now. I have lost track of how many GPS receivers I have owned since then. I teach GPS clinics for a national outdoor outfitters chain and do private lessons as well. Why am I telling you this? I get this question(about internal compasses) about 9 times a week asked of me. It is a fair question from someone shopping for their first receiver, or maybe an upgrade receiver.

 

So, the actual reason I asked it above, is just to get the debate out there so folks that have wondered but not asked could gain some insight. I really do appreciate your opinion and it's totally valid.

 

In case you are wondering what I use, my current arsenal is as follows:

 

Garmin Foretrex 101 (for backpacking it's lightweight and perfect)

Magellan Sporttrack Map

Garmin IQue 3600

Garmin Streetpilot C330

Garmin 60CS (best all around receiver in my opinion)

Magellan Meridian Gold

Garmin etrex (yellow)

 

Software for the GPSRs:

Garmin MetroGuide V6

Garmin City Select V6

Garmin Topo

Garmin National Parks Topo 1:24,000 (West)

Magellan MapSend Topo

Magellan MapSend Streets (Direct Route)

 

and lots of different commercial mapping programs

 

 

(I didn't buy all of these...Some were gifts and some were "trades".) So,

I stand by my previous statement "I wouldn't consider paying for one"...I didn't say I wouldn't own one or use one...

You're just putting up an argumentative statement to justify your thriftiness.

 

 

Not exactly...I have been selling these things for 6 1/2 years now. I have lost track of how many GPS receivers I have

 

Yah I pulled that whole paragraph out because it really wasn't a good point and wasn't germane to the discussion. As well, re-reading your posts I saw what you were doing. It was a different angle from the other threads that posted along the same lines.

 

Anyway, I'm a proud owner of a MeiPlat and have only lusted after the Garmin 60cs. The only thing that holds me back from going Garmin is the compass has to be held flat versus the 3-axis compass that comes with the Magellan series (not sure about the 600 though).

 

It comes down to personal preference. Mind you, I tried doing the compass and GPS two handed dance just to see how easy or difficult it was. I found myself trying to balance my hiking staff, and keeping my dog still long enough to be able to get a good reading for a bearing. Yuck. It was easier to flip between the pages and see in one glance while walking on a narrow and rough trail where I was, where I'm going, and in what direction I need to concentrate on. Standing still for a moment and looking at the electronic compass with the waypoint bearing live on it, without releasing the staff or the dog, was extremely convenient. I can't say it enough... You get what you pay for, but you have to be willing to pay for it.

 

I own only one GPS, but I have several compasses and I learned how to work with each of them. I know how to use them against a map and landmarks. I wouldn't dream of depending on an electronic gadget without having that as my backup. My favorite is the lensatic compass. However, the difference between that and the built-in would be best put as the difference between a bicycle and a motorcyle. A bicycle will never run out of gas, but the motorcycle is a lot more convenient in most cases. You just have to be willing to pay for the motorcycle.

[+Thrak]

Holding the Garmin level for the compass isn't a problem. If it isn't level enough it TELLS you to hold it level and when it is right the message goes away. I got the Garmin GPSMAP 76CS and I like it a lot.

 

Unless I get a lot more wild with my tromping I have zero need for even a backup compass. If you go back country tramping then I can see why you would insist on a manual backup but for many people there is simply no need. As for the batteries, I carry spares. If I manage to destroy the GPSr I don't plan to be out in the boonies anyway.

 

Knowing how to use a manual compass and a map is a good skill to have but most don't have that skill and many (myself for instance) are too darn lazy to learn since they don't plan on going out in the boonies.

[+TotemLake]

Holding the Garmin level for the compass isn't a problem. If it isn't level enough it TELLS you to hold it level and when it is right the message goes away. I got the Garmin GPSMAP 76CS and I like it a lot.

 

I expect that of a standard compass but I shouldn't have to worry about how I'm holding an electronic compass for accuracy. That's why I enjoy the 3-axis compass and it was the deciding factor over the Garmin's systems when I finally made my purchase.