Terrain Rating For A Cache You Need To Swim To

[+caughtatwork]

G'day all from Australia.

 

I have a quick question regarding a terrain rating for a cache that you may need to swim to. I've had a look at the standard rating systems and there's nothing about swimming so I'm a little bit stuck.

 

Basically I want to set a multi cache where the final cache will be a short way out in the water. It will be chained to a marker (no problems with permissions).

 

The water is essentially protected. ie. It's a bay rather than the open ocean.

 

The waves would be almost non existent as this part of the bay is 'protected'.

 

You can't walk to it, even at low tide.

 

You can hire a boat very close to the final location ($75.00 per hour, minimum 1 hour).

 

The cache description will be quite bereft of clues and will NOT tell you that the final location is in water and that you may need to swim for it.

 

You may not even be warned to come in shorts or bring a change of clothes.

 

The cache may be between 20 meters (about 60 feet) to 50 meters (150 feet) from the closest entry to the water. That would be a 120 foot to 300 foot return journey.

 

Swimming is permitted in the area.

 

I am (at this stage) assuming most people can swim, but that may be a false assumption and I will need to determine what to do if the cacher can't (rather than won't) swim.

 

Due to the difficulty of the puzzles at the intermediate waypoints, this will be a difficulty 5.

 

Based on the cacher having to swim, should this be a terrain 5 or a 4?

 

Kind regards from Oz.

[+Touchstone]

I'd rate it a five, maybe a six if you have to dodge jellies to get to it

 

Good luck with the cache.

[CoyoteRed]

I'm thinking this would be around a 3 terrain. The swim doesn't seem that hard or far for even a moderate swimmer. Most will likely do it in 2 trips out; one to retrieve the cache, return to shore to trade and sign in, and then a trip to return it.

 

A strong swimmer would think this would be trivial. I think both the wife and daughter could do it easily. Me, I don't swim, so I'd need a bit of gear. (Actually, watch while Sissy goes and gets it.)

 

You have to equate the swim for a moderate swimmer to the distance a moderate hiker would have to exert. I'm thinking that's around a 3.

[+tands]

5 is needed for specialized knowledge/equipment. Unfortunately, swimming is not a universal skill. The 5 rating is the most apt for this kind of cache because you could die if you didn't know how to swim. Needing a boat is less of a terrain difficulty. Also, any toothed critters about, mate?

 

- T of TandS

[+caughtatwork]

50 meters out is not that far. One lap of an Olympic pool. Another 50 meters back (another lap). If they're not a strong swimmer that could be a decent distance. If they're not a swimmer, they have no choice but to find someone who can swim it for them or get a boat which is why I was tending towards a 5.

 

Didn't think about the swaps and logging the find. Oops. So the distance would be doubled, but you could take a breather in between.

 

Remember that there is no information supplied that tells them they need to swim. They find the final co-ords and it will point into the water.

 

I'm pretty sure there are no toothy things in the bay. Nothing that's going to take a chunk out of you anyway.

 

There may be jellyfish (which I'll need to look into) but as far as I know they're all pretty benign around here.

 

I really just don't know how many people have a swimming skill up to the task and I would hate for someone to think they could do it and drown. I think I might change the final location with this in mind.

 

Thanks for the responses so far.

[CoyoteRed]

I've always looked at the rating as done by the fictional "moderate geocacher." I wouldn't up the difficulty based on the lowest common denominator.

 

Also, I wouldn't look at what gear one might need. We've got one that is a 5 terrain. You need a rope to complete at least one stage--unless you can fly--the others don't need a rope, but it makes it easier. If it were just the other stages, it wouldn't be a 5.

 

If you are concerned about someone drowning but want them to get wet, move it to a place where they only need to wade. Better yet, place it and say it is a swimming cache, at least one person in their party should be a strong swimmer and don't swim alone--you know, the basic disclaimer.

 

Hope this helps.

[+QDman]

If I had not been told that there was swimming involved, and I got to the area and saw my GPSr pointing into the water, I'd assume I had the wrong coordinates.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Ditto ODman's post - you are setting people up for dissapointment and begging to be flamed!

 

Water is everywhere here in the Southeast US , and most folks here know how to swim, but beyond knowing how is the desire to do so - a number of island caches here are ignored because folks don't want to swim for it.

 

It appears from your description that the seeker will have to first convince themselves that the cache is actually in the water - most are gonna say to themselves "this guys coords are crap" and go home, but if they do believe the coords, they then have to decide if they want to skinny-dip or get their clothes wet, since they won't have a swimsuit, then they have to swim out, detach the cache and swim, carrying it, back to shore.

 

I suspect that not 1 in 100 geocachers will return the cache and re-attach it! Many will drop it while swimming. I can see you having to replace this cache about every other time it gets visited!

 

Friendly bit of advice - remove the element of surprise. It does nothing to enhance and in fact degrades the whole experience. Tell the cacher they'll have to swim for the cache and only those who are willing will do it.

 

I mean, I have a sick and twisted sense of humor, but I don't TRY to anger geocachers!

 

In any event, it's a 5/5 rating.

[+caughtatwork]

Your points are well taken.

 

The co-ords in the water were more to get people to 'think' they were wrong, but they were actually right. Probably a bit too evil.

 

That's one of the problems in developing a cache concept alone, you miss out on valuable input from many talented people.

 

I now believe that the element of surprise should be removed. I'll ensure that they know it's in the water and that they will need a swimmer who can swim that distance comfortably. I may actually change the location so they can walk to it (provided they bring shorts).

 

I appreciate all of the feedback that you guys have to offer.

[+Kit Fox]

Friendly bit of advice - remove the element of surprise. It does nothing to enhance and in fact degrades the whole experience. Tell the cacher they'll have to swim for the cache and only those who are willing will do it.

 

I mean, I have a sick and twisted sense of humor, but I don't TRY to anger geocachers!

 

I'm with the Rambler on this. Misdirection can be fun on a cache, but blatantly omitting key information (You have to swim) is not a good idea.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I was in Nebraska last month looking for some caches. One of them was near the Platte River about 100 yards across). The coordinates put the cache 50 feet from shore, but that didn't match the description. Rather than go skinny dipping in 40 degree water (+/- 5 degrees), I started walking around. Sure enough, the cache was about 100 feet from the coords!

 

If the cache is in the water, you need to specify that on your cache page. I think a terrain rating of 5 fits here.

[+tands]

I also guide River Trips and own a 5/5 cache where water is involved. One piece of advice for anyone: Never swim in water you are not familiar with. Strainers and currents are most often not visible on the surface. Even if you are a good swimmer, don't swim unless you know the water. Don't even wade or walk in unfamiliar water. Most people who drown in our local rivers do so in waist deep water when they get a foot trapped and the current then pushes them over and holds them under.

 

- T of TandS

[+AtoZ]

Swimming is a lot more dangerous then walking. I am a moderate swimmer, you can not equate open water with a pool, and I know it would or could be dangerous to do a cache like this, I think poeple need to be forewarned as to what to expect exleast mention swimming maybe involved or bring a canoe, boat etc.... to do this. To say you have to rent a boat makes it a commerical cache. But even at 50 meter is can pose problems. You have to realize that people are not that bright some times. Geocachers get to focused on geocaching and put blinders on and don't realize what they are getting into.

I know we don't have a legal responsibility for placing caches that may endanger folks but I feel we should have a moral responsiblility. People just don't think some times. Maybe I am the oppsite after years of doing what are now called extreme sports, rock and ice climbing, backcountry skiing, open water and cave diving etc.... you learn you responsible for your self. So often I see people listing their cell phone as one of the essential. Most cell phones don't work in the wood/mountians so folks have a false sense of security, well that is another rant. But as for geocachers to often the are focused on the cache to think of what could go wrong.

So I would forewarn folks of what to expect.

 

cheers