Caching on Public Lands?

[FireFlyer]

Are there special rules for, or special permissions to seek, in order to hide a cache on public Federal lands? Specifically, do any of the following organizations have an official stand one way or the other on hiding caches: BLM, USFS, F&G, Corps of Engineers, state land, etc?

 

If not, must you contact a representative if you want to cache on that organization's property? What type of resource manager would you talk to: realty, forestor, geologist, archealogist, etc.?

[+Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking]

See the guidelines under hiding a cache for that info. Also check with any locals in your area. If you're in Arizona, check with azgeocaching.com for details of ALL the bureaucratic hoops certain land agencies are now making us jump through. Most agencies are okay, some specific ones....grrr.

 

Archaeological sites are forbidden except as virtuals under certain circumstances. See the guidelines.

 

**********

 

That moss-covered bucket I hailed as a treasure,

For often at noon, when I returned from the field,

I found it the source of an exquisite pleasure.

 

Samuel Woodworth The Old Oaken Bucket

[FireFlyer]

I checked http://www.geocaching.com/hideseek but it didn't say anything other than to obtain permission from the landowner or land manager. Because I work for one of the larger public land agencies in this area and yet the collegues I've talked with have never heard of geocaching, I'm guessing there isn't any nationwide stance on it.

 

Just wondered if anyone knew of any rules specific to the federal land agencies.

 

Can anyone advise WHOSE department caching would be under? i.e. Forestry, Geology, Realty, etc. No one seems to think it's their call.

[NightThree]

Sometimes a quick Internet search will even get you some information.

 

The Bureau of Land Management (BLM), for exampled, issued a memo about how Geocaches are supposed to be handled on their land. In short: you don't need to do anything as long as it's not harmful to the area.

 

Not sure for other agencies. National parks are off-limits, of course, but I think other than that the policies vary greatly.

[+Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking]

Fireflyer, what state are you in?

[+Desert_Warrior]

I recommend you try to get permission if you can. I say this for two reasons.

 

#1. If you do not get permission, and the cache is discovered, it may be in an unappropriate place. This may cause the landowners to have a negative view of geocaching and set a very negative policy that would be difficult to overcome if it ever was.

 

#2. If you ask permission, and get it, you set up a good relationship, which will benefit geocaching in the long run.

 

My first cache was put in a state park, with permission. It worked out well. I was asked to participate in the annual park expo-weekend. That worked out great, we got several new cachers out of it. Then I became a park volunteer. They ask me to investigate and approve cacher requests among other things. It has been a win-win-win situation. The park gets more visitors. I get to hike for free. Geocaching gets a good name in the area.

 

It doesn't get better than this!

 

Mike. Desert_Warrior (aka KD9KC).

El Paso, Texas.

 

Citizens of this land may own guns. Not to threaten their neighbors, but to ensure themselves of liberty and freedom.

 

They are not assault weapons anymore... they are HOMELAND DEFENSE WEAPONS!

[+briansnat]

The National Park Service bans geocaching on their lands. The BLM and USFS allow it, but with restrictions in some areas (usually up to the local authorities). I'm not sure about the Corps of Engineers, or F&G (what is the F&G anyways?).

 

States have varying policies ranging from total bans, permit/or permission policies and no policy at all.

 

"Au pays des aveugles, les borgnes sont rois"

[magellan315]

Firefly, which public agency do you work for? We maybe able to tell you what the policy is.

[+Renegade Knight]

The BLM is having public meetings right now for their planning process. This is where people make comments on everything that they have to take into account when they move forward with their plans.

 

Among other things I'll be commenting on is cultural resources (Archeological sites) and not excluding me and my progeny from using MY cultural heritage. It's not like this isn't my home after as many generations of my family have lived, died, here, not to mention fought to make it home. While it’s not obvious to some recreation is a cultural resource.

 

Off Road Vehicles. Are coming under fire (even if you hike 6 miles in to the cache odds are you drove the first 27 miles to the jump point.)

 

Geocaching. Might as well make it official.

 

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Wherever you go there you are.

[FireFlyer]

Hi, Thank you everyone, I appreciate your comments!

 

Brian, F&G = Fish & Game. Some states call them "Fish & Wildlife", some call them "Game & Fish", etc.

 

Wow, I read the BLM memo posted by NightThree... I can't believe they suggest to write up an EA or NEPA document for a cache!

 

Anyway, thank you, I'm glad to have something written to take in and show the staff that the organization does have an opinion on the issue. Everyone right now just looks at me like I'm crazy, or suspicious that I'm trying to plant a bomb or something.

 

Thanks again for all the suggestions. It's a bummer about not being able to use archaeological sites. Those are the places that are neat to see. And almost everything worth seeing in the woods (except for a view) is now listed as an archaeological site. I'll have to do some more checking on allowed hiding places...

[FullOn]

As far as the archaeological sites go, the rules pertaining to archaeological sites actually say "Please do not place caches on archaeological or historical sites."

 

It's OK to place them near sites where the increase in foot traffic will not have an impact on the site itself. Here in CA, there are still a lot of old ghost towns and cabins out in the woods. It would be OK to place a cache near the ruins, but not in them.

 

"The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either." - Benjamin Franklin

[+Yellow Alligator]

I am an archaeologist that works for the Bureau of Land Management and have been an avid geocacher for the past year (300+ caches as of my 1st anniversay date tomorrow). When I saw the first memo come through about geocaching, I was very worried, as I had JUST PLACED my first geocache on BLM lands! I went to the field office manager (my boss) and told him what I had done, and if there were any concerns regarding this. He told me that geocaching was such a small impact and because it actually INVITES people to explore public lands, he was all for it. He more or less said that we have much bigger things to worry about, like illegal off-roading and impacts from cattle (overgrazing), meth labs, etc.

As an archaeologist, I would see where geocaching on prehistoric or some historic sites could be an adverse impact. I was looking for a micro in Spokane about 4 months ago and saw that it was hidden in an old historic rock wall at a little park. Well, it must have been hidden very well because folks had begun to tear the loose rock wall down to find it. I notified the hider that it was likely missing and that newbies appeared to think it was ok to tear down historic objects in the search, and suggested he archive or move it. It was missing, and he did archive it.

So far I haven't seen ANY IMPACTS to historic or archaeological sites in or on public lands. And, I just found out last week that the US Fish and Wildlife Service does NOT allow geocaching on Wildlife reserves (or was it preserves?). They will take em away...

And one more note about the National Park Service- THEY are the ones who call up our office and TELL us that we have geocaches on our lands and that we should investigate them and remove them if necessary. My boss took this as the NPS trying to force THEIR policy on other agencies (and he wasn't all that appreciative of it). Thank goodness for rational BLMers like our field manager who recognizes that public lands are for everyone's use, so long as we use common sense!

YA

[+briansnat]

quote:

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As far as the archaeological sites go, the rules pertaining to archaeological sites actually say "Please do not place caches on archaeological or historical sites."

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I placed a cache near an archaeological dig where I'm a staff member. I did it to help promote public awareness of the site. The cache may well be on top of some long lost artifacts, but they're buried, so unless the geocachers come in with a shovel, or backhoe, it really isn't an issue.

 

Of course other sites, especially where there are structural and other cultural materials on the surface, should be avoided. The hard part is knowing where these places are, since they usually aren't publicized in order to protect them from pot hunters.

 

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

[+Yellow Alligator]

Yes, the big Catch 22 is precisely what you've just said:

 

"The hard part is knowing where these places are, since they usually aren't publicized in order to protect them from pot hunters."

 

I ran into the same issue regarding metal detecting on public lands near historic or archaeological sites. It is an allowable activity on most public lands, yet it is illegal to dig on historic sites (where many of these folks like to detect). My ranger at the time said that it is the metal detector enthusiast's responsibility to check with the agency prior to digging. And we all know how often that occurs!

[+Renegade Knight]

quote:

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Originally posted by Yellow Alligator:

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Hey, Yello Alligator, so far I've found the BLM very easy to work with. The hardest part is figuring out who to talk too.

[+Yellow Alligator]

The best folks to talk to are the Recreation people (regarding BLM lands). Just call up the main office (the District Office or Field Office in the area you are interested in- see http://www.blm.gov/nhp/directory/index.htm) and ask to talk to the specialist in charge of Recreation and hopefully they'll be able to assist you. You can go further up the line and ask to speak to the Field Office Manager, but they don't always know the answers and will probably refer you to someone else. Hope this helps.

YA