+shunra Posted March 12, 2004 Posted March 12, 2004 Yep. that's right, it simply isn't an option. All the other options are there: Find, Note, Needs Archived, etc. - but DNF is not among them. There must have been a well-considered reason to complicate things by not providing the standard menu. But what could that be? Anyway, someone showed up a LAST Sunday for an event cache for NEXT Sunday, and I have told him he could log a DNF. He countered that he can't and he is right. What now?
+GrizzlyJohn Posted March 12, 2004 Posted March 12, 2004 Ok I am going to go with thinking you are half joking. But I think you can't log a DNF on locationless caches either. I think the reasons are somewhat obvious. It is a one time event. Either you make it or you don't. They are not hidden and they occur at a specific time. Showing up early or late for an event cache is not really a DNF from the way I see it. No more than logging a DNF for an archived cache. The cache is really only active for the duration of the event. Have him post a note if it is really that important and wants everyone to know that he can't follow directions. DNFs I think would be useful to the other types of cache owner to maybe think they might have to check on the cache if they start seeing a few of them. Event caches come and go either you are there or you are not. Not sure how hard that is really. Nobody really needs to know before the event that you could not find it. And there is nothing to look for after the event. Man talk about complicating things!
+Jamie Z Posted March 12, 2004 Posted March 12, 2004 I didn't know you couldn't do it.. but you should be able to. Like any cache, if you can find it, there should be a possibility of not finding it. That's what geocaching is. I almost logged a DNF on an event a while back. I got lost on my way there. I made it, but if I hadn't, that sure as heck should have been a DNF. Jamie
+southdeltan Posted March 12, 2004 Posted March 12, 2004 If you show up early or late - you did NOT find the event so you should be able to log a DNF. We had somebody do that earlier in the year but I don't think he logged a DNF - but at the time he COULD have logged one. I don't see why the option isn't there anymore... southdeltan
+Mopar Posted March 12, 2004 Posted March 12, 2004 I'm with GrizzlyJohn on this one (is that allowed?). In this case a DNF does not notify the owner or other cachers of a problem, just that the poster is trying to be silly. If it's that important to tell the world you can't read a calender, leave a note.
+GrizzlyJohn Posted March 12, 2004 Posted March 12, 2004 I'm with GrizzlyJohn on this one (is that allowed?). I would seem that one of us will need to rethink our position on this.
+shunra Posted March 13, 2004 Author Posted March 13, 2004 It is a one time event. Either you make it or you don't. They are not hidden and they occur at a specific time. Showing up early or late for an event cache is not really a DNF from the way I see it. No more than logging a DNF for an archived cache. The cache is really only active for the duration of the event. Re the limited time span: If it is technically possible to log a Find a week in advance, it should also be possible to log a DNF at that point. With respect to it being impossible to log a DNF on an event because you either make it or you don't - how is that different from any other cache, which you either find or you don't? If you get lost, like Jamie almost did, or if you arrive at the wrong time, you didn't find it, and should be able to log that!
+Jamie Z Posted March 13, 2004 Posted March 13, 2004 Not having DNF logs is like having a sporting event where everyone gets a ribbon. I mean, if you can find something, you'd better be able to not find it. Jamie
+GrizzlyJohn Posted March 13, 2004 Posted March 13, 2004 OK. I have to get to work because I now see that I have to go through the entire GC.com site and enter a DNF for all the caches out that I did not find. There must be over 100000 of them now including all those archived ones and all the event caches that have come and gone. And while it may be technically possible to log a find for an event cache a week in advance the person doing that would be lying, wouldn't they. They really did not find it, did they.
+RichardMoore Posted March 13, 2004 Posted March 13, 2004 I didn't know you couldn't do it.. but you should be able to. Like any cache, if you can find it, there should be a possibility of not finding it. That's what geocaching is. I almost logged a DNF on an event a while back. I got lost on my way there. I made it, but if I hadn't, that sure as heck should have been a DNF. Jamie So you're saying that you should be able to log a DNF on an event, but you didn't try to log one on an event that you missed. Why didn't you? If an event cache is the same as any other cache you should have tried to log a DNF on it. I understand the reasons for logging DNF on an ordinary cache, mainly to let the owner know that there might be a problem, but why would you do it on an event? The owner would have been at the event and know if the picnic shelter was missing. RichardMoore
+bons Posted March 13, 2004 Posted March 13, 2004 Having mulled it over, I thinka bunch of people logging DNFs at a CITO because someone fat fingered the co-ordinates when they made the listing would be funny.
+shunra Posted March 13, 2004 Author Posted March 13, 2004 (edited) I didn't know you couldn't do it.. but you should be able to. Like any cache, if you can find it, there should be a possibility of not finding it. That's what geocaching is. I almost logged a DNF on an event a while back. I got lost on my way there. I made it, but if I hadn't, that sure as heck should have been a DNF. So you're saying that you should be able to log a DNF on an event, but you didn't try to log one on an event that you missed. Why didn't you? If an event cache is the same as any other cache you should have tried to log a DNF on it. If you *tried* to get there, pressed GOTO, entered the coords, or whatever criterion you apply otherwise - then yes, you should be able to log a DNF according to the same criteria. I understand the reasons for logging DNF on an ordinary cache, mainly to let the owner know that there might be a problem, but why would you do it on an event? The owner would have been at the event and know if the picnic shelter was missing. Is that what you post DNFs for? If I think it might be missing, I'm sending a message to the owner. I post DNFs in order to record the story of my failed attempt, of a hike that was great in spite of the DNF, of an adventure. My DNFs are not "messages to the owner", they are a record of my personal caching history, adding to the lore and glory of the cache itself, and I don't see why an event should be treated any differently. Jamie phrased it better than I did: If you can find it, you can also NOT find it. Of course, having looked for it is a condition - for Finds as well as for DNFs, for traditional caches as well as for events. (That's Re GrizzlyJohn's silly comment). Edited March 13, 2004 by Shunra
+sept1c_tank Posted March 13, 2004 Posted March 13, 2004 I doubt the demand for a DNF on event caches is high. Why not just log it as a note and preface the note with the frown face (smilie) available for all log denotations?
+GrizzlyJohn Posted March 13, 2004 Posted March 13, 2004 If you *tried* to get there, pressed GOTO, entered the coords, or whatever criterion you apply otherwise - then yes, you should be able to log a DNF according to the same criteria. Of course, having looked for it is a condition - for Finds as well as for DNFs, for traditional caches as well as for events. (That's Re GrizzlyJohn's silly comment). Oh OK so pressing GOTO or entering the coords is good enough criterion to consider it worth logging a DNF. But then say that of course having looked for it as a condition. Which is it? But yea my comments were silly. But after reflecting on this for a little while I think I will have to change my mind. (I guess Mopar will sleep better tonight knowing there is still a subject we don't agree on. Oh who am I kidding he doesn't care.) If in fact you need to log a DNF because the concept of a calendar is a little bit too advanced or you are unable to find a group of people in a public picnic area with GPSr on their neck standing around a grill eating hot dogs. Then yes please I think you should have the option of logging a DNF. In fact I beg you to log it as a DNF. Somewhere we have to start the list of people that need to be taken out of the gene pool. And as to why an event cache should be treated any different -- that is because they are! They have a limited life span, last I heard you could not put a traditional cache out for a limited time. Also I don't know because I have never been to an event cache but is there a log book? My guess is that some do and some don't. But feel free to correct me if I am wrong on these points I am guessing. But they are different than a traditional cache that is why they are treated differently.
+shunra Posted March 13, 2004 Author Posted March 13, 2004 But after reflecting on this for a little while I think I will have to change my mind. (I guess Mopar will sleep better tonight knowing there is still a subject we don't agree on. Oh who am I kidding he doesn't care.) If in fact you need to log a DNF because the concept of a calendar is a little bit too advanced or you are unable to find a group of people in a public picnic area with GPSr on their neck standing around a grill eating hot dogs. Then yes please I think you should have the option of logging a DNF. In fact I beg you to log it as a DNF. Somewhere we have to start the list of people that need to be taken out of the gene pool. I'll forward that to the guy who showed up last Sunday for my cache event tomorrow
+Team GPSaxophone Posted March 13, 2004 Posted March 13, 2004 We used to be able to log DNF on event caches. I didn't find this event, even after helping set it up! Here's my log for the DNF.
+GrizzlyJohn Posted March 13, 2004 Posted March 13, 2004 I'll forward that to the guy who showed up last Sunday for my cache event tomorrow Thanks.
+shunra Posted March 13, 2004 Author Posted March 13, 2004 (edited) We used to be able to log DNF on event caches. I didn't find this event, even after helping set it up! Here's my log for the DNF. Thanks, Saxman, for giving a perfect example. Just ignore the nasty comments by GrizzlyGrump who claims you can't read the calendar and that your blue genes ought to be removed from the smurfy gene pool. Now my question remains, of course, why someone considered the ability of posting logs like yours so attrocious that he went through the trouble of disallowing them. Someone must have made a conscious motivated decision. Edited March 13, 2004 by Shunra
+bons Posted March 13, 2004 Posted March 13, 2004 Now my question remains, of course, why someone considered the ability of posting logs like yours so attrocious that he went through the trouble of disallowing them. Someone must have made a conscious motivated decision. I suspect it's more "Hmmm. We don't need that. Let's clean it up." than it was "I don't like that. I'm going to ban it." Don't assume malice where spring cleaning is just as likely.
+GrizzlyJohn Posted March 14, 2004 Posted March 14, 2004 Thanks, Saxman, for giving a perfect example. Just ignore the nasty comments by GrizzlyGrump who claims you can't read the calendar and that your blue genes ought to be removed from the smurfy gene pool. That example is not even in the ballpark of what we are talking about. If that was a regular cache and one's car broke down on the way would they log it as a DNF? A DNF should be when you are on the ground, in the area, you are doing the bee dance, the arrow is spinning in every direction, and have spent some time actually looking under leaves and in stumps. I was going to go for a cache once, stopped by the 7-11 to get a coke on the way, ran into somebody I had not seen for years and got to talking. By the time we were done it was too late for me to go after the cache. Is that a DNF? I went back later and got it. But does anybody really care? Is that really a part of the cache history that needs to be treasured? Stop and think for a minute what a DNF tells readers of the cache log as well as the owner. Its too bad all you have are personal attacks. And that you really can't defend the subject based on the merits. You raise the examples and then when the logic is shown to be flawed the comments are nasty and silly. But if they are nasty and silly it would seem you could address them, which you haven't. The big question is really what does it matter? Log it as a note. Does it really make a difference? Who cares? If this is what you have to worry about I need your life. But who am I to talk I have spent time arguing the other side. And as bons said I think it really was a matter of TPTB taking a look at and thinking the same think as I am, "That don't make no sense at all".
+Jamie Z Posted March 14, 2004 Posted March 14, 2004 I didn't know you couldn't do it.. but you should be able to. Like any cache, if you can find it, there should be a possibility of not finding it. That's what geocaching is. I almost logged a DNF on an event a while back. I got lost on my way there. I made it, but if I hadn't, that sure as heck should have been a DNF. Jamie So you're saying that you should be able to log a DNF on an event, but you didn't try to log one on an event that you missed. Why didn't you? You'll note in my quote that I said I did make it. What happened is that I left the house about 1/2 hour late, so I was going to be late for the event anyway. Then on the way, due to construction, I was forced to exit at an exit I didn't want. I ended up going the wrong way for several miles before I could turn around. Once I got turned around and back to the interstate, the same construction forced me to enter the interstate going back toward the direction I'd come from in the first place. Once again, I exited, turned back around for one more try. I exited on a different road, intending to simply bypass the construction. Instead, this road went for a few miles, then dead-ended. I was driving in circles for about 45 minutes, and was almost an hour and a half late for the event. Had I been much more late, I would have missed it completely. If that happened, I sure as heck would have logged a DNF. If that requires me to be taken out of the gene pool (thanks for the intelligent comment) then I guess that's what will have to happen. Jamie
+shunra Posted March 14, 2004 Author Posted March 14, 2004 If that requires me to be taken out of the gene pool (thanks for the intelligent comment) then I guess that's what will have to happen. Hey Jamie, you're so diplomatic... You call it ' intelligent'. I called it nasty, and all it did was push him into ad hominem attack mode. Oh well.
+RichardMoore Posted March 14, 2004 Posted March 14, 2004 You'll note in my quote that I said I did make it. If that requires me to be taken out of the gene pool (thanks for the intelligent comment) then I guess that's what will have to happen. My mistake, I read your post too fast. You made it to the event, you were just fashionably late. And, just for the record, I'm not the one who made the comment about taking you out of the gene pool.
+GrizzlyJohn Posted March 14, 2004 Posted March 14, 2004 You call it ' intelligent'. I called it nasty, and all it did was push him into ad hominem attack mode. Oh well. Let's see I present a logical argument to show why the reason stated fails and my comments are called silly and nasty. But I was the one that was pushed into an ad hominem attack mode? Oh well. And you still have yet to address any of the points I have made. Oh sorry they were all nasty and silly, read they don't agree with you. Please go look up the meaning of ad hominem. Go on now look it up. I'll wait.
+bons Posted March 14, 2004 Posted March 14, 2004 I think he's using the standard internet defination of "ad hominem" which seems to be "A personal attack just like the ones I make, except you made it and that's not allowed."
+GrizzlyJohn Posted March 14, 2004 Posted March 14, 2004 I think he's using the standard internet defination of "ad hominem" which seems to be "A personal attack just like the ones I make, except you made it and that's not allowed." Well then I stand corrected.
+shunra Posted March 14, 2004 Author Posted March 14, 2004 I think he's using the standard internet defination of "ad hominem" which seems to be "A personal attack just like the ones I make, except you made it and that's not allowed." LOL!
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