Is this the type of cache that we should be creating?

[MWAC]

I was looking for caches in South New Jersey and I have a question for the Forum regarding what has been done to the area round the cache site. The Cache in question is the Lebanon Ghostly Trek waypoint GC4176. Which has been hidden on: 3/11/2002

 

The owner ends the Cache description with the following:

 

DON'T TAKE ANY OF THE OBSERVERS. If fact, bring something to hang in the trees, link a little skeleton or ghostly creature, or whatever. Take a picture and post it.

 

There is a link to a picture of these Observers. Please check it out!

 

In my viewing of this link I found these "Observers” are just junk/trash hanging from the surrounding trees (coke can, the head of a Frankenstein doll, a rubber bat). This Cache is located in Lebanon State Forest, one of NJ's State Forests and is part of the UN protected Pine Barrens area.

 

Since we have been discussing the NPS not allowing Caches to be left in National Parks. I'm concern that with creating a cache like this will only do us harm by outlawing the sport at the state and county levels.

 

I would have taken a shotgun to anyone who did this to my land.

 

Ed

[+RiverCacher]

I wholeheartedly agree...this type of cache is exactly what can get our activity banned from state parks...and every other park or piece of property in the country.

 

Its tacky. Its litter. It draws attention to the cache...there are so many bad things about this.

 

Scott

[+Hawk-eye]

I don't normally like to come down on someone's cache ... but this is not appropriate in a State Park or any public lands ... if someone wanted to do this on their own private property ... that would be different.

 

IMHO

 

[+worldtraveler]

To make participation easier, the cache is here, and here is the picture of the "observers".

 

 

Worldtraveler

[+worldtraveler]

To make participation easier, the cache is here, and here is the picture of the "observers".

 

 

Worldtraveler

[+rdw]

Unless there is some special arrangement here or a peculiar local custom, this is littering. And a sure way to give geocachers a bad name.

 

rdw

[+rdw]

Unless there is some special arrangement here or a peculiar local custom, this is littering. And a sure way to give geocachers a bad name.

 

rdw

[BassoonPilot]

Maybe I missed something . . . did the cache owner afix these "observers," or did he simply take advantage of something that was already in existence when he placed his cache?

 

I ask, because in the past, and long before geocaching existed, I would sometimes encounter such sites on hikes. I never knew quite what to make of them. Thoughts I had included they were marking the spot for a (ritual) meeting, they were memorials of some sort, or just somebody's idea of fun.

 

I do agree with the consensus that adding to the site is not the proper thing to do.

[+RiverCacher]

Looks like a perfect opportunity to put the Cache In --> Trash OUT philosophy to work.

 

Scott

Rivercacher

Lynchburg, Virginia

[+Hawk-eye]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

Maybe I missed something . . . did the cache owner afix these "observers," or did he simply take advantage of something that was already in existence when he placed his cache?

 

I ask, because in the past, and long before geocaching existed, I would sometimes encounter such sites on hikes. I never knew quite what to make of them. Thoughts I had included they were marking the spot for a (ritual) meeting, they were memorials of some sort, or just somebody's idea of fun.

 

I do agree with the consensus that adding to the site is not the proper thing to do.

---

 

If that's the case ... associating the cache with it ... puts the light on the cache ... in this case for the bad ... IMHO.

 

Has anyone visited any of his other ... and he has a lot ... caches? Same thing?

 

[BassoonPilot]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hawk-eye:

 

If that's the case ... associating the cache with it ... puts the light on the cache ... in this case for the bad ... IMHO.

---

 

Yes, I agree with that.

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hawk-eye:

 

Has anyone visited any of his other ... and he has a lot ... caches? Same thing?

---

 

I've done probably 1/2 dozen of his caches, and would describe them as "normal." But for an expert opinion, let's wait for StayFloopy to check in; I think he's done most of this fellow's caches. Floops??

[+Hawk-eye]

I just did a quick run through of 20 of his "51 Caches" ... I didn't see anything or any posts that would hint of this kind of stuff. Oh well ..

 

[+Rusty & Libby]

There is a spot in northern Michigan where a tree is full of shoes! There are at least 100 pairs shoes mostly with laces tied and hanging from branches of this tree. It is trash but at some point it became sort of an art expression or at least an oddity. This one is a local landmark and people go looking for it. I could see making something like that a virtual cache location but would not encourage adding to it.

 

Rusty...

 

Rusty & Libby's Geocache Page

[+RAD Dad]

"This Cache is located in Lebanon State Forest, one of NJ's State Forests and is part of the UN protected Pine Barrens area. "

 

UN? As in United Nations? What the H E double tooth picks does the United Nations have to do with ANYTHING within the Soverign borders of the United States???

 

Any regulation, protections or laws placed upon the U.S. by the UN is unconstitutional. We are a soverign nation and should not be subject to any of the global village nonsense of the United Nations.

 

So far as the garbage hanging from the trees, it's garbage, don't leave any of your own, and bring a bag to pack what you find out. IF I saw this kind of stuff in a forest I would be upset. It's one thing for us to carefully place a container in an unobtrusive location which we maintain and try and keep from being an eyesore, it is quite another to hang stuff from the trees.

 

ummmm....not sure what to say here....so ummm, well errrr, uhhhh, well I guess that's it.

[+Silver Horde]

We have one like this in So Cal!

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=4878

 

I have not visited it but it is one of the popular caches!

 

and I thought "only in LA"

 

Pereginus

[mortonfox]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

 

I've done probably 1/2 dozen of his caches, and would describe them as "normal." But for an expert opinion, let's wait for StayFloopy to check in; I think he's done most of this fellow's caches. Floops??

---

 

Of those I have found, a majority of them are normal and hidden under his regular coverings, which would be a pile of sticks/leaves. That is his usual style.

 

I'd say there are one or two where the environment has been disturbed a touch more than necessary to hide the cache but that's just IMHO and not the subject of this topic.

 

One of his recent caches was a two-parter where the first part was a rusty motorcycle on which he had written the coordinates of the final cache. Of course, I think the motorcycle was originally there so it shouldn't be too much of a problem unless someone gets the impression we are dumping old vehicles into a park area to hide caches.

 

So this cache that we are discussing has no precedent, as far as I am aware, in his body of work.

 

I do agree that whether or not the observers were there before he hid the cache, it might give others a bad impression of geocaching, and that adding to the observers would be littering.

[Moun10Bike]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rusty:

There is a spot in northern Michigan where a tree is full of shoes!

---

 

I placed a cache in the vicinity of a popular shoe tree over here in Washington: see my Shoe Tree Stash.

 

The local Chamber of Commerce actually has a web page dedicated to this minor attraction. It makes a point of calling out the tradition of leaving an offering to the tree when visiting, and I echoed that in my cache listing.

 

I bring this up simply as an example of the other possibility that BassoonPilot mentions: that the "observers" are a tradition that was present before the cache.

 

[+misguided one]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Moun10Bike:

I bring this up simply as an example of the other possibility that BassoonPilot mentions: that the "observers" are a tradition that was present before the cache.

---

 

Has anyone e-mailed this cache owner to find out what exactly the story is with the "observers"?

[+The Treasurer]

I would be tempted to take all of this trash out with me. Unless it was there to commemorate/memorialize something. Either way I definately would not be adding to it.

[+Ttepee]

It sure sounds like the stuff was there first. I'm in NY and seeing as how there's sproradic activity in this area I look to NJ quite a bit. He's been setting an awful lot of caches out there the past few months so I've had his activity in my scopes. Just trying to gauge the kind of caches he's placing and so far... without ever seeing one mind you...I've been impressed with the descriptions of his locales.. and I'd have to say he's just taking advantage of a freak thing he came upon in the woods and had to share... went a step or two overboard in suggesting cachers leave stuff too... but give em a break.

 

Email him pointing to this thread or suggesting the inappropriatness of leaving things like that and I'm pretty confident you'll get a cordial reply. Let's not blow this whole thing out of proportion.

[+Macro]

Personally it turns me off. I'm not the cache police or anything, but I am against this type of things. I am a firm believer in the "leave no trace" philosophy. I have hiked all over this country, west coast, pacific norwest, rockies, adirondacks, cascades, the appalacian trail....I could go on and on...in all those miles I can say the I honestly believe that my use of those trails was completely undetectable when I was done. This cache is just what we dont need...a questionable monstrosity that will draw the wrong kind of attention to what we do.

[+shybabe924]

Maybe the watchers were already there??

 

How about people that wrap their cache containers up in a Walmart bag or a trash bag before they hide it in a pile of sticks or something...that just makes it look like GARBAGE!!! The last 3 caches I've found were like that, and it's just tacky lookin and nasty when they hold water!

[+Jamie Z]

Shybabe--another plug for ammo boxes.

 

Jamie

[+Jamie Z]

Shybabe--another plug for ammo boxes.

 

Jamie