+Captain Morgan Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 I decided to make a new thread on this subject, as the original post drowned to moratorium thread: -------------------------------------------------- Some locationless caches have been recently approved although they should have not. The main problem, i guess, is that some approver or approvers don't know how common some objects are outside US. Perhaps the best example is this: "I Can't Drive....21?" URL: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=44163 In this cache you have to find a speed limit that do not end in '5' or '0', or which are higher than 70 (local units/hour). In every country that use kilometers / hour, instead of miles / hour, there is A LOT of speed limits like 80, 100 or 120 km/h. I guess there is hundreds of thousands, or millions of those speed limits in this planet. So this was only one example, but there is more if you need more examples... What i want say with this, is that locationless cache approvers should establish some kind of steering group where they discuss about new locationless caches before they accept them. And because of this problem, there should be locationless cache approvers from all parts of the world, perhaps from every country(?) where is geocachers that do locationless caching. I'm volunteer for Finland, if needed... Yours, Quote Link to comment
+Desert_Warrior Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Captain_Morgan&Family:I decided to make a new thread on this subject, as the original post drowned to moratorium thread: -------------------------------------------------- What i want say with this, is that locationless cache approvers should establish some kind of steering group where they discuss about new locationless caches before they accept them. I think that is the whole idea of the other post. Jeremy has said it several times. They are not going away, just being stopped temporairly (my spelling sucks in the morning) while they figure out a better way to do it. That is good enough for me. I am thankful for what we have. Mike. Desert_Warrior (aka KD9KC). El Paso, Texas. Citizens of this land may own guns. Not to threaten their neighbors, but to ensure themselves of liberty and freedom. They are not assault weapons anymore... they are HOMELAND DEFENSE WEAPONS! Quote Link to comment
+Markwell Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 I don't think it's the same subject. What the Captain is saying is that in addition to the problems with the e-mails and time investment of locationless cacnes, there are still some that don't meet the requirements that are getting approved. He is suggesting that rather than a locationless cache going into the regular queue for cache approval, that the locationless caches be put up for discussion through a steering committee. This has nothing to do with separating them out - as Jeremy's post proposes. That being said, I disagree. If the cache approvers have the requirements, they should know which caches to approve. A committee just makes it more confusing and time consuming. If you feel that a cache was approved erroneously, you have every right to say so to the approvers through contact@geo.... But be careful about announcing the problem in public. A while ago, someone talked about a locationless cache for police car shields and got hosed. Markwell Chicago Geocaching Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 I suggest we take a wait and see approach with this. Lets see what changes TPTB make. We all may be completely satisfied with the outcome. Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again. Quote Link to comment
+parkrrrr Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Markwell:But be careful about announcing the problem in public. A while ago, someone talked about a locationless cache for police car shields and got hosed. Yeah, but he was a loser anyway. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Lighten up. For every lame Locationless, there are a hundred or more lame traditional. Lame in your eyes is fun for someone else. If you have time to find these bad caches, you are not hunting the ones you like enough. Wherever you go there you are. Quote Link to comment
+bigredmed Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 I agreed with Jeremy's request for the moratorium, but I think that discussion of future alternative processes is a good idea. I would favor splitting LC's into a new game. For some, these are fun. For me, they are dull. For some benchmarking is fun. For me, most of the bench marks are in high risk areas (like interstate bridges) or are in terrorist alert controlled areas like train bridges. I don't want to get run over OR arrested, so I will not be benchmarking anytime soon. Benchmarks are counted separately. LC's should be as well. When you have players logging 2-3 simultaneous finds by pumping up their LC count, it takes some of the fun out of the game. I will let others play the benchmark game and I will happily let others play the LC game. I would just like to have the LC's counted separately and the lists to be on a separate section of this site, just like the benchmarks are. By appointment to the Court of HRM Queen Mikki I. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 BRM- While I do enjoy many LCs, I agree with you. I believe that this issue will be resolved when LCs come back separated from other caches. Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again. Quote Link to comment
+Captain Morgan Posted February 12, 2003 Author Share Posted February 12, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Markwell:I don't think it's the same subject. What the Captain is saying is that ... clip! Thanks Markwell, you made clear well what i wanted to say! It's sometimes difficult for non-english speaking to say what one is thinking... Yours, Quote Link to comment
+bigeddy Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Captain_Morgan&Family:Some locationless caches have been recently approved although they should have not. The main problem, i guess, is that some approver or approvers don't know how common some objects are outside US. Perhaps the best example is this: "I Can't Drive....21?" URL: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=44163 In this cache you have to find a speed limit that do not end in '5' or '0', or which are higher than 70 (local units/hour). In every country that use kilometers / hour, instead of miles / hour, there is A LOT of speed limits like 80, 100 or 120 km/h. I guess there is hundreds of thousands, or millions of those speed limits in this planet. So this was only one example, but there is more if you need more examples... It's been my experience that cache approvals and denials are inconsistent and should be improved, but it's a 3-way street. The cache owners, approvers and users need to contribute. Your example is a minor mistake that is easy to fix. Contact the cache owner with the problem and suggest they take out the over 70 option; only signs that end in a digit other than 0 or 5 would qualify. No need to bother the approver unless the owner doesn't respond. If you have better examples let's look at them and talk about what might be done to improve quality. Quote Link to comment
+Captain Morgan Posted February 13, 2003 Author Share Posted February 13, 2003 quote:Originally posted by bigeddy:If you have better examples let's look at them and talk about what might be done to improve quality. Ok, Here's some examples of recent LC's: Civil Defense Sirens, http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=47384 , are much too common to be LC. At least here in Finland there is a siren almost in every village, and many or tens of them in every town. So it means thousands of sirens in our country and probably the situation is the same in other western countries. Caves in Europe, http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=21125 , we have at least 650 caves in Finland... And there is already another cave LC. Old stone walls, http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=46710 , they are very common in many many European countries. Ireland is FULL of them, i think. Cave and stone wall LC's could have been OK, if they had been limited to some country where they really are rare. Regards, Quote Link to comment
+Team_J Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 I see Captain_Morgan&Family has brought up one of my caches by cross-posting his complaints about it to two topics. (He) doesn't like the fact that I called for a locationless cache asking for unusual speed limits. I'm OK with that. What I am not OK with, is the nonsense which pervades these boards where people debate specific caches without inviting the cache owners to the debate. My response to Captain_Morgan&Family is as follows: This cache was not "recently approved". It was approved 4 months ago. You logged it 2 months before complaining about it on the forum. But I am nitpicking. From now on, if you have a problem with one of my caches, or anyone else's, please have the common decency to email the cache owner before opening up the subject for debate. This cache should not have affected your caching enjoyment one bit. This cache does cause my family much pleasure, however. This game should be fun. It is not a sport, but a game, and pleasure should be derived from it. Too many rules, and all the fun will go away. I see you did log a find on this cache. If it was so bad, why did you waste your time and my time doing so? quote:December 19, 2002 by Captain_Morgan&Family (102 found)N 61° 21.717 E 023° 49.145 You can [delete] or [permanently encrypt] this log entry. 80 km/h is the most common winter speed limit on main roads in Finland. In a summertime it's 100 km/h, and on highways 120 km/h. The photo is taken on the road 130 between Tampere and Valkeakoski, southern Finland. 80 km/h Per Bigeddy's suggestion, I will immediately change the requirement to allow only speeds that do not end in zero. I already eliminated 75, since that is popular in the Western US, and several finds were posted. No big deal. Thank you, Bigeddy, for keeping it all in perspective. As is the case with all caches, if you don't like a cache, don't log your finds. That wasn't hard, was it? dadJ of Team sigJ Quote Link to comment
+Captain Morgan Posted March 25, 2003 Author Share Posted March 25, 2003 quote:Originally posted by sigJ:I see Captain_Morgan&Family ... clip... doesn't like the fact that I called for a locationless cache asking for unusual speed limits. The idea of that cache is great but when someone makes caches like it, he should first do some investigation what's the situation around the globe. quote:I see you did log a find on this cache. If it was so bad, why did you waste your time and my time doing so? Well, to show you and others that speed limits over 70 units are much too common to be a locationless cache. But please forgive me. I really should have mailed you first. But I thought you saw my logging but did not care about it. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Captain_Morgan&Family:I decided to make a new thread on this subject, as the original post drowned to moratorium thread: -------------------------------------------------- Some locationless caches have been recently approved although they should have not In this cache you have to find a speed limit that do not end in '5' or '0', or which are higher than 70 (local units/hour). In every country that use kilometers / hour, instead of miles / hour, there is A LOT of speed limits like 80, 100 or 120 km/h. I guess there is hundreds of thousands, or millions of those speed limits in this planet. http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/70242_1300.gif Is this cache stepping on your toes? Is it a duplicate of your locationless? Do you lose sleep over it at night? Is it gnawing away at you because you feel the object is just too common for your tastes? Let it lie. It's approved, it's grandfathered. Either log it or leave it. Wherever you go there you are. Quote Link to comment
+Captain Morgan Posted March 25, 2003 Author Share Posted March 25, 2003 Come'on, i just wanted to point out that there is too many locationless caches that do not meet the requirements that geocaching.com admins have placed. Quote Link to comment
+Team_J Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Captain Morgan and Family, I think you misread my recent post. Your log to my cache did not indicate any disapproval of my cache requirements. You logged it, it met my requirements, and I kept your log. It was two months after that that you decided to use my cache to build your example that there are too many locationless caches out there. I agree with you that there are too many. Also, I feel that some items for locationless caches are too common, and that others are too rare. No argument there. However when I saw your forum post today for the first time, I felt compelled to respond. The point of my response was to complain that you (as others before you), chose to debate the merits of a specific cache without having the courtesy to include the cache owner in the debate. Instead, you have just made me angry by talking behind my back in a public forum. I would have gladly changed my cache page upon the first complaint that I was being U.S.-centric in my requirements. Log it or don't log it, but move on. Unless it breaks the rules, which mine does not. I felt absolutely no obligation to "do some investigation what's the situation around the globe". My cache description makes it clear that I live in the U.S., and that the experiences I have had led to my cache choice. Despite your objections, the majority of finds on this cache are exactly what I called for in the cache description - quote:When I learned to drive, I quickly came to realize that speed limits in the United States are supposed to be evenly divisible by 5.Once in a while, some local governing board will make an unusual speed limit in order to draw attention to it. The example I have put here is from a corporate campus in Houston, Texas. [Picture of 21MPH Speed limit here.] How many other odd speed limits can you find? Looking at the logs, there is a nice split between U.S. respondents and those from other countries. Have a nice day, dadJ of Team sigJ [This message was edited by sigJ on March 25, 2003 at 02:37 PM.] Quote Link to comment
+Team GPSaxophone Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 This is the first locationless cache idea I have liked. I was laughing as I looked through the pictures of these unique sped limits. That said, I still think non-traditional caches should have their own area (virtuals and LC's alike) Quote Link to comment
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