Are you going to charge us to go Geocaching?

March 7, 2002

After reading some info about "Charter membership" it came to my attention of the question...Are you going to charge us to go Geocaching?

The answer is YES...it even states that in explaining the whole "Charter membership" here is proof..

"Member only caches: Some caches will only be available to premium members. This has been a request of many geocachers who want to put more energy into designing a cache for dedicated geocachers. As the cache owner, you can make any of your caches "subscriber only," so folks will need a subscription to seek it out. "

Then a little bit down it says this :

"Are you going to charge us to go Geocaching?

Never! The traditional Geocaching game will always be free. Subscriptions will be for new enhancements and new games added to Groundspeak. It takes development time and resources ($$) in order to make these ideas come to life."

Now if we are not going to be charged....then why a "Memebers only cache"....we will have to pay to be able to cache it.

I totally disagree with this part.........Whats next? Having to pay to log each find? Having to pay for each cache hidden?

You can say what you want...this is only my opinion...but I see this as a very BAD step. Paying for a forum, special features, even a profile, that I can almost see. But paying to view "Member only" caches goes way too FAR.

So what happens when the caches start to be more ad more "members only"? This will in the long run force folks to join some type of membership. Will current caches be turned into "membership only" caches?

This is just SAD......

1.1k · March 7, 2002

People are still allowed to place as many 'public' caches as they want to. Perhaps this 'members only' choice will encourage MORE caches to be placed...in situations where people have become gun shy by plundered caches, etc., and wouldn't have placed a cache at all, if they were forced to expose it to the entire www, including those who can't be bothered to register.

Personally, I think it's a GOOD step.

March 7, 2002

But we still are "paying" to play the game. If you do not pay, you can not find the cache because you will not know about it.

Also what about folks who are "members" that leave the info about these special caches inside unspecial caches.....then what?

March 7, 2002

quote:
E=Mc2 posted:
...Are you going to charge us to go Geocaching?

The answer is YES...it even states that in explaining the whole "Charter membership" here is proof..

I fail to see why you interpret Jeremy's information the way you are. Jeremy said (read it below) TRADITIONAL Geocaching will always be free. And that is the truth. The member only caches, by definition, are not traditional caches... they are for members only, and that's what makes them different (read non-traditional).

quote:
"Are you going to charge us to go Geocaching?
Never! The traditional Geocaching game will always be free. Subscriptions will be for new enhancements and new games added to Groundspeak. It takes development time and resources ($$) in order to make these ideas come to life."

Member:

March 7, 2002

Traditional or not they are geocaches...am I correct. Thus yet again I say that we must pay to geocache. Simple as that.

1.1k · March 7, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by E=Mc2:
But we still are "paying" to play the game. If you do not pay, you can not find the cache because you will not know about it.

If I spend my OWN money to buy an ammo box, and a bunch of trinkets to put in it, why should I be forced to share it with the whole world, whether I want to or not? There are plenty of people who will continue to maintain traditional (public) caches. Just read this thread. As they point out there, many caches don't get a lot of activity, so the owners of new caches may choose to continue to make them public, to help keep their find ratios up.

Personally, I think the MOC's (Members Only Caches) will mostly be utilized in situations where there is deliberate vandalizing going on in an area.

quote:
Originally posted by E=Mc2:
Also what about folks who are "members" that leave the info about these special caches inside unspecial caches.....then what?

I would hope that if a cache owner chooses his right to share with members only, that those other members would respect his wishes, and not put the info anywhere that the general public could get to it.

1.1k · March 7, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by E=Mc2:
Traditional or not they are geocaches...am I correct. Thus yet again I say that we must pay to geocache. Simple as that.

There are plenty of public geocaches out there. You can find them without paying a penny (other than your gas and the expense of a GPS). Therefore you are geocaching for FREE. You don't have to pay anything...and you can still geocache.

I don't understand what your beef is about allowing people to hide ADDITIONAL members only caches. Nobody is taking away the free ones. (And if the individual owners choose to remove their caches from public view, that is their RIGHT as the OWNER. Do you feel that we, as geocache owners, owe you free admittance to our caches?)

March 7, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by E=Mc2:
Traditional or not they are geocaches...am I correct. Thus yet again I say that we must pay to geocache. Simple as that.

Who ever said that Member Only caches weren't caches? Nobody is arguing that point. What we are arguing is over what Jeremy did or didn't say. What he said is that you will never pay for traditional geocaching, and that as I said is the truth. You do not have to pay to hunt traditional geocaches. You do have to pay to hunt member only caches.

Before memberships were created, there were no member only caches. Now there are, and you can't hunt them without paying. Its plain as day; you don't have to pay to be able to do what you did prior to memberships, but you do have to pay to do the new things created after memberships.

If you want to argue semantics, yes, you do have to pay to geocache if you define geocaching genericaly as the hunting of both traditional and member only caches. But Jeremy never denied that. What he said is that you would never have to pay to play the traditional geocaching game!

Member:

March 7, 2002

At least some can see that we will have to pay to cache. My point about being made to pay is simple this..

If we hide/place a cache in a park and then proceed to say that only a select few can look for it( those who pay), is this not making it sort of private property on public property.

Not to mention that again it reads:

Are you going to charge us to go Geocaching?

Never! The traditional Geocaching game will always be free. Subscriptions will be for new enhancements and new games added to Groundspeak. It takes development time and resources ($$) in order to make these ideas come to life.

That is not a true statement

March 7, 2002

So sue him

goodnight

Member:

March 7, 2002

I think becoming a member is a good idea. $30 a year is not a lot of money. I feel that if we had no problem investing a couple of hundred dollars for our equipment (gps), then a few extra dollars to help keep the site up, is not asking for much.

In my opinion we are not paying to geocache, but paying to help for the out of pocket cost to keep geocaching.com and this forum running. Really if you think about it, it takes time and effort to keep a site like this running. Especially with all the improvements that have been done to the site in the past few months. Writting all the code to make this site as it is is not an easy job to do. There is time involed, servers to maintain, and as Jeremy has stated, bandwith to pay for. I am sure he has done everything he can to have some of this done at the lowest cost possible, but there is only so much equipment and bandwith a company can donated.

I would rather pay $30 a year than to see "pop-up"/"pop-under" ads plastered all over the site.

As to paying to geocache, because all the caches would be members only? It's up to the cache hider if the cache is open to the public or members only. I believe that there will still be many public caches placed to hunt for, because I don't see everybody becoming a member. So for a cache to be a members only cache, I think only a member can make it that way, not a non-member.

But this is just what I think, I am sure others feel the same or different. In the mean time, keep up the great work Jeremy.

1.1k · March 7, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by E=Mc2:
My point about being made to pay is simple this..

Nobody is MAKING you pay anything. If you want to geocache, go out there and do it. Do you think you're possibly going to run out of free caches to find?

I agree with the CacheCows, you are simply arguing semantics by picking Jeremy's wording apart. It seems obvious to me (and most others, I'm sure) what he meant about not having to pay for traditional geocaching.

March 7, 2002

Read between the lines.

If you read more, the price is intended to go up. Not that those who join now will have to pay more because those will be locked in.

"Why should I pay for a membership?

Since this is a charter membership, there are currently only a few new features that will be available to you. We will be adding more features for premium users every month, and your subscription will be locked in at a lower price"

So how high will the price go? It is possible that at one point that those who just found out about the sport will not pay big time bucks.

Again--We will be paying to geocache, geocaching is on public grounds many times. So we will be paying to go onto public land to geocache. Hmmm paying money to go onto FREE public grounds.

Anyone starting to see the picture?

March 7, 2002

I agree with "drifters"

I have no problem helping with the site...I do have a problem with "Members Only" caches.

March 7, 2002

You're right, the price could go up to $50 maybe even $100 per year or maybe per month. You still don't have to pay for it though. You don't even have to use this site. Caching is not a patend or copyrighted activity, you can go and creat you own caching page, just like this one. Then you can decide to keep it a non-paying, non-member site, it's up to you.

Jeremy kept this as free as posible, and by charging a membership premium, to help pay for cost, he is giving those who help an added bonus to geocaching.

March 7, 2002

Thier are other wasy to support Geocaching.com. There is no need to charge us to go out and find caches. If this is the case, maybe those of us who do not want to apy the $30 a year,(which would be better spent on hiking boots)should get together and form non-members only caches. Does this make sense, well niether does members only caches. If someone wants to donate money, I agrese with that, I would even donate money, but if you try to bribe me into it with members only caches, that is just going to make me mad. WE really need to remember that we are placing these on public lands. Let's not be ridiculous, some of us can't really afford $30 a year. I know that sounds obsurd, but then again you maybe you aren't working you way through college without help. -The Real DesertRat

March 7, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by TheRealDesertRat:
Thier are other wasy to support Geocaching.com. There is no need to charge us to go out and find caches. If this is the case, maybe those of us who do not want to apy the $30 a year,(which would be better spent on hiking boots)should get together and form non-members only caches. Does this make sense, well niether does members only caches. If someone wants to donate money, I agrese with that, I would even donate money, but if you try to bribe me into it with members only caches, that is just going to make me mad. WE really need to remember that we are placing these on public lands. Let's not be ridiculous, some of us can't really afford $30 a year. I know that sounds obsurd, but then again you maybe you aren't working you way through college without help. -The Real DesertRat

Do it. Go build a website, publicize it, promote it. Go buy a bunch of servers, go buy the bandwidth.

Don't whine about it. Do it.

And when you've done it, tell us how much it cost.

I really want to know. Don't forget to tell us how many hundreds of hours you put in to get it all running, too.

-Paul

March 7, 2002

Great way of putting it Kodak's4.

1.1k · March 7, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by TheRealDesertRat:
maybe those of us who do not want to apy the $30 a year should get together and form non-members only caches.

I know you were only being facetious to make a point, and aren't actually suggesting the start of a new site...but if you actually did want to do so, do you think you could do it for under $30 a year? (Not to mention the hours and hours of free labor you'd likely have to donate.

quote:
Originally posted by TheRealDesertRat:
If someone wants to donate money, I agree with that, I would even donate money, but if you try to bribe me into it with members only caches, that is just going to make me mad.

I'm curious, have you actually ever donated? (I don't need to know how much...I'm just curious whether you've put your money where your mouth is.) It's easy to say I "would" donate, but the words are pretty shallow until you do donate.

March 7, 2002

Why must there be a hundred threads about "why are we paying" It's real simple....pay or don't!

A Member Only Cache is only a perk...doesn't mean that all charter members that place caches will be placing caches for other charter members only! Most people have already said that they wouldn't put a MOCache unless they put alot of time and more than the usual trinkets inside. Member or not, in some places there are just not enough geocachers to place an exclusive cache...so don't sweat it!

Shybabe924

7.4k · March 7, 2002

There is no charge to continue geocaching in the way in which you are accustomed.

The only difference is that there are now some new enhancements, bells & whistles available for your geocaching pleasure should you choose to pay for them. Whether or not you do is completely your prerogative.

One of those enhancements is the ability to create and view member's only caches. This feature was added at the request of many geocachers around the country who saw their caches falling victim to cache terrorists. Previously, these vandals could easily scan the website for easy pickings and go after them; now, there is a means of deterring that behavior.

To be honest, I don't see what all the fuss is about member's only caches. The arguments against them lean toward conspiracy theories rather than reality, IMHO.

The member's only caches (or "mocaches," as the term has been coined) will, I believe, only see limited use where necessary. I know that I will prefer to keep my own caches completely open in order to ensure that they have the widest audience possible. However, I may reconsider should geoterrorism become a problem in my area.

1.1k · March 7, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Kodak's4: Do it. Go build a website, publicize it, promote it. Go buy a bunch of servers, go buy the bandwidth.

Don't whine about it. Do it.

And when you've done it, tell us how much it cost.

I really want to know. Don't forget to tell us how many hundreds of hours you put in to get it all running, too.

LOL...looks like I'm too slow at typing. Kodak beat me to the punch.

I don't believe TheDesertRat was seriously suggesting the creation of a new site, but was merely trying to use it as an analogy. But I still can't help getting a bit steamed when people whine about having to pay for something that others have put a lot of hard work into, and who act like things they have had the priveledge to participate in are owed to them for free, forever.

March 7, 2002

E=MC2, a Rocket Scientist you arent.

It seems like, with your logic, that you would be upset by people paying $100 for front row seats and a backstage pass, while you paid $20 for nosebleed.

You both paid for the concert. You are both hearing the same band. You are both in the same building, with the same merchandise to buy, using the same bathrooms. But, you are upset because someone else paid more money and got a backstage pass.

This is exactly what is going on here. You are not having to pay to Geocache. You can still get the coordinates for thousands of other caches. But, if you do decide to pay, then you get a "backstage pass" so to say, to search for caches that members have placed that are intended for other members.

Also, you say that the statement that, basically, "traditional Geocaching will remain free", and you, basically, call BS on that, I don't understand your logic. Definition - Traditional Geocaching: Geocaching done using coordinates that are found in the public domain at www.geocaching.com.

Definition - Members-Only Geocaching: Geocaching done using coordinates found in the Members only section at www.geocaching.com. Therefore, Traditional Geocaching is free. How is that paying for it.

Basically, I haven't paid a single penny to anyone associated with www.geocaching.com. I have found several coordinates for caches in my area. I looked again in my wallet, and there is the same amount of money there that there was when I started. My bank balance doesn't show any deductions to www.geocaching.com. I asked my dog to bark if I'm paying to geocache. She stayed silent. I'm still poor. I'm not poorer because of www.geocaching.com.

Hmmm ... As Al Gore would say ... "Sounds like fuzzy math to me"

But, then again, what do I know? I eat buildings and cars.

Godzirra (roar)

March 7, 2002

Welp Guys, Ok well no I haven't donated money yet! I think it is a worthy cause though. I would and will donate, but until then I certainly hope that my geocaching friends don't decide that they want to form a clique similar to those you would find in Jr High. No you can't find my cache your not a member of my club. I don't have a lot of money at my disposal. Granted it is not alot of money, but I guess maybe you just have to pay to play. Maybe I am the wrong one here. Maybe Geocaching should just start charging a fee per cache, but let's not stop there. Let's just charge to even log onto the website. I am sorry that it irritates me so much, and I am sorry that those of you that can afford to do this right now are so adiment about not letting others find your caches. -The Real DesertRat

March 7, 2002

Why do we need to charge money again? To keep the servers up? Ok well, our friend Jeremy started the site, and up till now has run the site without help. I agree in the fact that he shouldn't be supporting the site by himself, in fact I don't think a penny should have to come out of his pocket at all. So why should it have to come out of ours. Granted, he is putting a lot of time into keeping the site going, but there are plenty of ways to make enouhg money to keep the site up. And for the skeptics out there, think Napster. The Geocaching.com site seems to be headed in the wrong direction. Part of the fun part of geocaching was that it was a community of people, not just one or two putting up the caches and everyone else finding them. -The Real DesertRat

March 7, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by TheRealDesertRat:
The Geocaching.com site seems to be headed in the wrong direction. Part of the fun part of geocaching was that it was a community of people, not just one or two putting up the caches and everyone else finding them.

That hasn't changed!

And if you have some other ideas to raise money, feel free to spill...

Lemme just say that I can relate to being low in the fundage department...I'm a single mother, and I may as well have no support from anyone. But, it costs me $30 for one visit to Chuck E Cheese and my child doesn't even like it that much...or $30 for one year to support our geohabit! I'd much rather the geocaching!

I spent $30 on gas last week, scouting for a hiding spot! $3/month is really not a big deal...I mean he's eating ramen over there bcuz we haven't been helping support our habit!!!!!

Shybabe924

1.1k · March 7, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by TheRealDesertRat:
I am sorry that those of you that can afford to do this right now are so adiment about not letting others find your caches.

I don't think that's the case at all. As you'll see in this thread, it looks like the main use of mocaches will be in situations where there is deliberate vandalism taking place. I don't think it's a matter of exclusivity, but rather a measure of determent for those with ill intent.

1.1k · March 7, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by TheRealDesertRat:
Why do we need to charge money again? [...] there are plenty of ways to make enough money to keep the site up.

Yeah, like pop-up ads, and such. No thanks! I'd much rather have a group of charter members pay to keep the site up, so that I can choose NOT to pay, and still look for those public caches...without the irritation of a bunch of pop up ads. If you think about it, those who don't pay are actually getting a pretty good deal...the paying members will be financing the free site, and keeping it ad free.

March 7, 2002

Maybe you should worry more about your kids than worry about geocaching. From your post, it sounded like you were giving up taking you children out for pizza, so that you could go geocaching. I can't imagine that this was the case, please clarify. Sorry if I am being rude in asking, I just don't want anyone else to get the wrong impression either..

9.4k · March 7, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by TheRealDesertRat:
There are plenty of ways to make enouhg money to keep the site up.

Examples please. I'd love to hear if you have alternatives.

quote:
And for the skeptics out there, think Napster.

I'm thinking about Napster. What is the analogy?

Jeremy

March 7, 2002

Wow. I think of all the subjects and such ... This is the one that makes me want to reply with some bad words ... But I'd hate to get blacklisted, so I'll just sit here, twiddle my thumbs, and think ...

I think that a membership to geocaching.com would be a great little thing to drop in a cache.

And, as always, we aren't paying to play.

Thank you ... Thank you verymuch ...

Godzirra (roar)

March 7, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by TheRealDesertRat:
Maybe you should worry more about your kids than worry about geocaching. From your post, it sounded like you were giving up taking you children out for pizza, so that you could go geocaching.

Not at all ....haha She would rather go geocaching anyday...besides, it's my money, I'll give it to who I want...my child is taken care of, better than most actually! She will never go without...and my child's welfare has nothing to do with this thread... I was trying to make a point, I can spend 30 bucks once doing something she doesn't really like....or I can spend 30 bucks for an entire year doing something she loves to do!

March 7, 2002

Leave it to the human condition to take all the good that has been done here and turn it into base trash emotions.

"The Sky Is Falling!! The Sky Is Falling!!!

The Evil money grubbers behind geocaching.com are going to charge people to go geocaching."

Ya know what, that sentiment not only is an insult to the folks who set up this site out of thier own pocket and are now trying to keep it going, but its an insult to everyone here who has tried to help keep the site going by posting, setting up caches and even giving some money.

No one is stoping anyone from geocaching. No one is charging an entry fee to take your gps and find something another person has posted publicaly up on the web/usenet/email/etc

Geocaching.com is not the "sole authority" for geocaching. They are not the license office , they are not the DMV and they are not the geocaching mafia.

I think everyone has the right to thier own opinions. I also think the folks who are looking to whine, ***** and moan this place down to the least common denominator can take thier opinions, shine them up all nice and pretty, fold them up like a USGS map and shove it right up thier candy asses.

To all the people that think the Charter Member aspects of this site will "destroy" geocaching, go do your own site. GO set up the servers, install the apps, get the bandwidth, customize the code, work up cool graphics, spend hour after hour tweeking the place and keeping an eye on it so that the inevitable glitches and gremlins wont take down the whole thing.

Then go get folks to log on to your system and spend time filling it up with cool content. Also be ready to answer thier questions, fix thier accounts when they get mucked up, help newbes use the system, and listen to folks who are suggesting wys to make it better.

DOnt forget you also have to have a full time job while yout doing all this becuase you can not ever....ever... ask for a dime...cause that would be wrong ya know.

When you have done this, please post a link to the site here.

I have done several "communnity" sites in my time and I can attest they are lots of work, lots and lots of work. I realy appreciate whats been done here and I am more than happy to support it not only with what ever time and effort I put into content here, but in giving some cash so that the site can get stronger.

The whole strawnman of "eletists" members is a ton of monkey mess. It sounds like a few folks have some personal issues to deal with. I hope they do, just not here.

So lets get off the whole Middle School Drama Society schitck and get back to what this site is all about...stumbling around in the woods with hundreds of dollars of electronics on you looking for 40 cent keycahins.

And thats the bottom line, cause tomwsmf said so.

Peace.

----------------------------

TeamWSMF@wsmf.org

March 7, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by TheRealDesertRat:
Sorry if I am being rude in asking, I just don't want anyone else to get the wrong impression either..

Yes, you were rude, and if you were truely sorry, you wouldn't have done it.

Bravo on the answer shybabe, and for even answering an out of line question...

Member:

March 7, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by TeamWSMF:
I also think the folks who are looking to whine, ***** and moan this place down to the least common denominator can take thier opinions...

Here's a suggestion...

When we see these whine and moan posts, those of us that are above the least common denominator should be able to recognize them for what they are, and realize the poster(s) are not the type to be reasoned with, logic does not apply, common sense is uncommon, and there is no desire by them to be confused with the facts.

As such, perhaps if we ignore these posts, they will dry up. Does the word Troll come to mind???

Member:

March 7, 2002

I am sorry if anything I have said in this forum or in another has made anyone mad. Jeremy, I really respect what you are doing, and I hope someday maybe you seek a cache of mine. Till then, I will send my $30 in, even if its not right away. I realize that it is slightly ignorant for us to say that there are plenty of ways for you to support the sight, and I am sorry if I have offended you. I read a post that suggested lowering the amount, would this be possible, does it really have to be $30?? And to my friend from Wisconsin, if you had bothered to read what I wrote you might not have been so rude to me. I was asking what she meant. I recieved an answer, and until you were so ," not nice " it was a mute point. I hope you the best sir, sorry if you misread the post- The Real DesertRat

9.4k · March 7, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by TheRealDesertRat:

I'm really interested in your suggestions and Napster thing. Can you explain? If you're offering alternatives I'd love to hear them.

Jeremy

4.5k · March 7, 2002

Jeremy, How about a secondary geocaching site that is for commercial caches only. The establishments who set up the cache pay Geocaching for it and that could offset your costs for the "free" site. Publicity can be given around it. Or just have commercial caches as part of the one, main site and flag those caches as such. Sure, many won't like the idea but there are costs and that's the way it is.

The one thing that I don't think was discussed, and this may be a sensitive issue, is how much money are we talking about? What do you need to run this? what are the hard and soft costs involved? This data may help define what has to be done.

Alan

March 7, 2002

Well, this may not have been one of his original points, but I'm going to throw it out for argument anyway.

Okay, there are now four members-only caches. The majority has been arguing that "traditional geocaching" is not changed. Without knowing the full details of all four caches, I'm pretty sure that at least two of them would have been placed anyway, had there been no such thing as members-only caches. That seems to indicate that there are now at least two fewer caches available to the freeloading public (of which I'm a not particularly proud member as of now) than there would have been otherwise. Something has changed, better or worse.

March 8, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Alan2:
The one thing that I don't think was discussed, and this may be a sensitive issue, is how much money are we talking about? What do you need to run this

Alan, I don't post this in a flippant way, I just would like you to turn your question around, and consider for a moment if we even come close to asking this kind of a question...

How much do you need to live on, pay your bills, afford your hobbies, your toys, your fun? I know I don't have the right to ask you those questions, and likewise I don't think we have the right to ask Jeremy how much is enough? He's not a utility with a profit cap. If $30/yr brought him $10 million a year (exageration is intended), so what? More power to him for every nickle he can garner from this site.

Its supply and demand economics. If the price to features ratio is considered too high by his potential customers (us), then it will fail just like any over priced item typically fails. And if its priced correctly, then it will succeed, and its no more our business how much he makes off of subscriptions than its our right to know how much any other businessman makes.

Member:

March 8, 2002

It seems I have offended you more than, if I even did offend, our friend shybabe. It seems more like you are in the mood for an argument than anything else. Do please remember I asked her to clarify. And also please remember that when you are accusing someone of being rude or,"beyond rude" that you aren't a hypocrite. I hope that I will not see any more rude remarks from you, my cheeshead friend - The Real DesertRat P.S. Jeremy, If you are reading this, I will look into some possible funding. -DR

March 8, 2002

Godzirra's final take on this.

I'm sure I'll send in some money to help support the site. Will I send it in JUST so I can get the MOC's? No. Will I send it in to be an "Elite Geocacher"? No. Will I send it in for whatever cool stuff is offered to those who do? No. Will I be sending it in today, or within the next month? Probably not.

I will send in the money because It will help keep the site up, FOR ALL to post caches, and find caches. It will help those who aren't as lucky and blessed as others to be able to find coordinates and have some fun. It will help, possibly, fund cool stuff, like maybe other sections of the site, maybe help with some contests or whatever.

I also think that, once everyone is done with the emotional phase of finding out that there is a part of this site that is for paying people only, and that they aren't able to access that part, they will see that nothing has changed from what they have now. It's the "emotional phase" that is the worst. And, if they don't get over it, and don't use the site anymore, that just helps with the bandwidth problem.

As an aside, I noticed someone offering ways of earning revenue for the site. Well, not offering ways, but suggesting that someone come up with ways. I was thinking, maybe this is where fellow geocachers could come together for a common purpose.

Maybe those of us who have selling skills, or who have possible connections, could talk to some businesses about paying to have their product or something put into caches.

For example, let's say that I talk to a local radio station. I say, hey, for $250, I'll put a bunch of your radio station logo'ed stuff into a cache. I do think that some stations would go for it. I mean, I, personally, think it would be cool to get some unique promo items. And, that $250 goes into the site. No advertisements on the site, except maybe the ones on the sidebar of the pages, and on the cache listing.

Godzirra (roar)

March 8, 2002

Righteous indignation would be anger about killing whales, or that someone just spit on you. I have done niether, and if you hadn't noticed, shybabe wasn't mad. You are the only one here that is mad. -The Real DesertRat

March 8, 2002

I noticed you added a link to indignation, are you trying to imply that you don't think I have a vocabulary. That my friend is rude. I am sorry I got you so riled up. Maybe you should put your, Indignation" to some good use somewhere where it is needed. - The Real DesertRat

March 8, 2002

I would guess that The Real DesertRat has never had the opportunity to watch 9 and 8 year old siblings hunker over a GPSr debating which direction a 293 bearing is. Nor had a 2 ½ year old ask to “find cache today.” Nor had the chance to explain how salmon spawn to children when the search for a cache leads you across a stream choked with squirming fish. At first I felt somewhat offended by The Real DesertRat’s comments myself, but after reflecting on it for a few minutes, I feel that the comments must have made out of ignorance to the pleasure which both parent and child can get from geocaching. Just like I don’t seem to have the ability to comprehend why the subscription aspect has become such a big deal.

March 8, 2002

I was merely saying that the way shybabe was stating her opinion, sounded as if she were saying that she didn't care about whether her children were happy or not. I have quite a few children in my life, and I would rather them happy, even if geocahing is not their, "thing." To reply to the charge of ignorance, I believe everyone is ignorant to some degree. Those of us who belive that we are above it, are the trully ignorant ones.. At least shybabe should feel safe knowing that she has all of you big smart men defending her, when she was never peaved or offended in the first place. -The Real DesertRat

March 8, 2002

quote:
I believe everyone is ignorant to some degree

Now applying the least common denominator rule...

Member:

9.4k · March 8, 2002

Dead horse has been beaten. Stick to the original forum post if you want to continue to beat this.

http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=3000917383&m=5980944593

Are you going to charge us to go Geocaching?

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