+Renegade Knight Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 After reading the debates in these forums about this and that it occured to me. All the preservationists are targeting the wrong people. It's not geocachers who cause the problems. It's the same people who plunder our caches who in turn torch bats, grafitti things, litter, and the like. We are just an easier target. Wherever you go there you are. Quote Link to comment
luxem Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 I don't think we are the target. The cavers are just worried that geocaching could become a conduit for those bat torchers and cave plunderers. Quote Link to comment
+RJFerret Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Renegade Knight:After reading the debates in these forums about this and that it occured to me. All the preservationists are targeting the wrong people. It's not geocachers who cause the problems. It's the same people who plunder our caches who in turn torch bats, grafitti things, litter, and the like. They AREN'T "targetting" Geocachers. It's the process--we can use this tool, the website, to publicly post exact directions to sensitive areas. The tool obviously isn't a problem. The users aren't doing anything wrong either. However, indiscriminate use may (and historically has) result in problems. It's as if someone went around posting your phone number and home address all over the Web! Good idea? No! Is the tool at fault? No. Are they directly harming you? No. However, the results of their actions could be tremendously detrimental! That's how I see it, Randy Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 We're the target of blame because we post what we do for all to see. Archaeological site plundered, there's a cache in the area, must be those gosh darn geocachers. Litter in a cave, there's a cache in the area, must be them geocachers. It's very convenient to blame us. Sometimes it may be, but I bet most of the time it's the same kind of jerks who plunder our caches. "Paternalism is the greatist despotism" - Emmanual Kant Quote Link to comment
dsandbro Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Yes, this is a developing problem. Geocaching is a perfectly legitimate form of recreation on public lands. Land managers and geocachers have the responsibility to regulate and engage in geocaching in a manner with least impact to the natural resources. Unfortunately, many geocachers are not aware of how cache placement will impact the area. Case in point: near me is a cache placed close to a prehistoric native American village site. I am sure the cache owner was not aware of the site, it takes a trained eye to detect the subtle signs (I had to be shown). The Forest Service has decided not to ask the cache owner to remove it for fear the notification will publicize the location and bring more people to the area than the normal cache seekers. So don't blame the cache owner or cache seekers in this case. They are not cognizant of the impacts and I would not expect them to know. ======================================== Friends don't let Friends geocache drunk. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted January 11, 2003 Author Share Posted January 11, 2003 Dave, you bring up another good point. The cacher didn't know the site was there. So far as I'm concerned, if they don't tell me I don't care (how can I, I don't know!) and I've done nothing wrong even if my cache is smack dab in the middle of all that is sacred. In your example, the forest service knew, but kept it secret. Then to keep it secret they um...said nothing and kept it secret. So nobody knew, nobody knows, and nobody will know. But how the heck did you know? I asked one of our environmental people about petroglyphs. These have stalled one of our projects and I know they are in the area but wanted to know where. I was told "You are not supposed to know". On the other hand 250 miles over, petroglyps are on puclic display off of Map Rock road (named after the glyphs) complete with signs advertising them. Go figure. Ah yes. It's a beautiful world. My next cache will probably be next to some of these hidden petroglypsh and I won't know. But then neither will anyone else. Besides it's the jerks that wander in due to the trails being there and who would plunder the cahce that would do harm. Wherever you go there you are. Quote Link to comment
+nincehelser Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 The reason some people know, and some don't, is based primarily on the people you associate with, the questions you ask, research, and sometimes just dumb luck. From what I understand, in nearby State parks you need to get permission to place a physical cache, and they send a ranger with you on the placement trip. The ranger's task is to help you put the cache in a non-sensitive area. Seems like a reasonable compromise. You could probably use this time to milk out some information about "secret" areas in the park. Another way to find out about "secret" areas is peruse old newspapers. All kinds of things can be uncovered there. George Quote Link to comment
+Sissy-n-CR Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 I think the secrecy mentioned here is a form of "protection through obscurity." Otherwise, they might have to put up a chain link fence around the areas they want to protect and that would be a serious headache. CR Quote Link to comment
+Jacksons Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 One thing that irrates me is that a lot of parks wont allow caching bit will allow fishing,and from what I have seen they leave behind more trash than any other group I have ever seen. Its really bad along most rivers and streams when all you see is old bait containers,lure packages,and empty beer can. There is always more than any one person can trash out I'm a man and I can change if I have to,I guess. Quote Link to comment
+RJFerret Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Dave54: Great example, thanks for sharing it! Renegade Knight: It's logical to use more publicly exposed petroglyphs for education (they'll be found/harmed regardless, this way hopefully other more "secret" pristine examples might not be vandalized by the ignorant.) CR: Chain link fences (and the like) are way too expensive and NOT in the budget for most of these organizations. Having volunteered with the US Fish & Wildlife Service monitoring endangered birds here, I can tell you there is NO money for items such as fences. Not only that, but with every administration change, their available budget changes again! Then programs get cut or aided, staff eliminated or hired, etc. With each election their offices and programs get turned upside down! Amazing anything gets protected at all! Randy Quote Link to comment
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