Trying for unique items.

May 9, 2002

I know many folks get disenchanted with the MacMeal gadgets and stuff that gets dumped into the caches.

I was trying to come up with something different I could put together to make kinda like my own "calling card" and be unique.

What do folks think of mini-pseudo survival kits?

Like and empty Altoids tin with some fish hooks, fish line, waterproof matches, a small signal mirror, etc.

Think the fish hooks and matches may be unsafe?

Thanks for your opinions.

~Echo2000

May 9, 2002

The matches are a definite NO-NO. Everything else sounds good. The hooks should be small, 'cause you probably won't be catching anything big in most mountain lakes.

May 9, 2002

Why are matches a No-No? We leave lighters in caches from time to time. If I were stuck in the woods I'd certantly want a set of waterproof matches! (Which coincidentally is why I carry some in my pack....)

May 9, 2002

I am 'assuming' (and you know what that means)

that matches and kids are the "no-no".

May I suggest matches in a child proof medicine bottle? They need a container anyway, so it might as well be a water proof and child proof meds bottle.

May 9, 2002

The childproof container could actually even house the fish hook and line.

Do you think those GU packets would be "OK"? I don't want to put anything perishable in there since it may attract bugs or scavengers but Gu is sealed in it's own pouch.

(For those who don't know, Gu is a pastey, sugar concentrate used by runners, bikers, etc. to give a boost)

Anything else that may be good?

38.2k · May 9, 2002

Sounds like a good idea and I don't see why matches in such a kit would be bad, depending on where the cache is. If it's next to a swing set in a urban park, then no...but a cache shouldn't be in such a place anyway.

38.2k · May 9, 2002

I'd say no to the GU. Animals have very finely tuned senses of smell.

May 9, 2002

Matches and lighters should not be placed into caches, because you dont know who is going to find the cache. The child proof cap on a medicine bottle won't stop a teenager. I vaguely remember my teen years, a lighter and an aerosol can made one heck of a blowtorch. You might consider a magnesium block and flint fire starter (sold in most camping stores) as an alternative to the matches.

May 10, 2002

I recall someone pointing out that lighters were a particularly bad idea in caches, particularly in the summer months as an ammo box or even a tupperware container could really heat up in sun and lighters could potentially turn into mini-bombs as a result. It sounded like a good reason not to include them.

Mark, Matthew & Christopher

We'll get there eventually....

May 10, 2002

I recall someone pointing out that lighters were a particularly bad idea in caches, particularly in the summer months as an ammo box or even a tupperware container could really heat up in sun and lighters could potentially turn into mini-bombs as a result. It sounded like a good reason not to include them.

Mark, Matthew & Christopher

We'll get there eventually....

May 10, 2002

I still don't see a problem with matches/lighters/candles in caches.

Sure, a child may go out with supervision to find a cache. In that cache may be one of these items. Ideally the person supervising is standing right there to determine what they take.

As far as a teenager finding them - I can get the lighters 4 in a pack from the dollar store or matches free from hotels/restaurants, it's not as if these are difficult to get.

It's like asking me to take the plastic grocery bags out of the caches I am getting ready to place (which I use to promote cache-in/trash-out) just because some kid may stick it over their head and sufficate.

You can't shield people from everything in the world. You need to teach them so that they learn how to handle a situation. Nothing beats a solid up-bringing.

- Dekaner of Team KKF2A

May 10, 2002

I agree that nothing beats a solid upbringing, but in some parts of the country prisoners are used for trail maintenance.

They are beyond help as far as a solid upbringing goes and knives, lighters, and some other things found in caches can be a problem.

They can really be a problem if used against a guard in some way!

I'm not against the afore mentioned cache items in any way, just be cogniscent of those who might be around to find them.

May 10, 2002

quote:
I'm not against the afore mentioned cache items in any way, just be cogniscent of those who might be around to find them.

This is probably the best advice out there. Just be aware of where this cache is and who is most likely to find it.

Otherwise, we'd all be leaving only McToys in caches!

- Dekaner of Team KKF2A

May 10, 2002

quote:
I'm not against the afore mentioned cache items in any way, just be cogniscent of those who might be around to find them.

This is probably the best advice out there. Just be aware of where this cache is and who is most likely to find it.

Otherwise, we'd all be leaving only McToys in caches!

- Dekaner of Team KKF2A

20.7k · May 10, 2002

A number of years ago, we purchased a happy meal with a toddler toy. It was a tiny replica of the spherical toy made by Fisher Price that has holes to fit different shaped pieces of plastic. The McToy replica was a keychain about 1 inch in circumference and had 1 shape trapped inside.

We have been looking for another one for years. If you find one and don't want it, throw it in a cache, maybe it will find me.

May 10, 2002

Maybe a little off topic--I usually leave a Sacagewea dollar as my signature item. But this morning, I waited outside a theater for 1 1/2 hours to get my ticket for Star Wars, and decided it wasn't worth it for just one ticket. There's also a good challenging multi-stage that I was going to make a second attempt at, and I felt that it merited a good trade item. Ergo, I bought two extra tickets, and left them in the cache when I finally did find it. Happy cachin'!!! 15T

www.1800goguard.com

May 10, 2002

quote:
two extra tickets, and left them in the cache when I finally did find it. Happy cachin'!!! 15T

Now thats cool!

If it's not one thing, then it's another...

3.9k · May 10, 2002

Most of my caches contain water proof matches. I see no harm in them at all.

The biggest argument against them seems to be that kids might find them. Lets see now....caches are usually placed somewhere in the woods and well hidden and require a GPS unit to locate.

So the big fear here is that a 6 t0 10 year old might be wondering around the woods unsupervised with a GPS unit and stumble across a cache containg matches?

O.K, I'll re-think this. Thinking.....O.K, I thought about it. I still see no logical reason why matches should not be placed in a cache. As far as the temp in a cache getting so high that it would ignite a lighter or a match is very unlikely. The tempature would have to be well over 200 degrees.

Just an old farts two cents worth. Happy geocaching.

El Diablo

2.6k · May 10, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by ~erik~:
I agree that nothing beats a solid upbringing, but in some parts of the country prisoners are used for trail maintenance.

They are beyond help as far as a solid upbringing goes and knives, lighters, and some other things found in caches can be a problem.

They can really be a problem if used against a guard in some way!

I'm not against the afore mentioned cache items in any way, just be cogniscent of those who might be around to find them.

Because a prisoner doing trail maintenance might find it and use it to escape? What'st to stop the prisoner from taking the McCloud tool used for trail maintenance and takeing the guard out with that.

Or maybe....

A racoon may find the ligher, get interested in it's small and take off with it. After playing with it for a bit it decides to swallow it and chokes to death just as it crosses a hwy. A driver, seeing the racoon going wild on the hwy swerves to miss the psycotic animal and hits a guard rail which jostles a package in the back seat that flies up and knocks the driver unconsious. The car speeds down the hwy out of control where it eventually flies of a cliff and careens over the edge to a small dam far bellow. The car hits the dam in a weak spot causing the failure of the sturcture sending millions of acre feet of water down stream to the quaint resort town. The same quaint resort town that is hosting the international summit between all the middle easter heads of state and israel. Just at the very moment the peace treaty is surrendured the water gushes down and kills everyone. The Arab nations think that isreal purposely destoyed the dam and commence to start WWIII.

It could happen.

george

May 10, 2002

OK, so I decided to read the tutorial about hiding a cache. It does not say specifically no matches or lighters. What it does say;

"Please!,no Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, Prescription or Illicit Drugs. Let's keep this safe & legal."

If you feel that you have to put matches in, then by all means go ahead. Just remember, and I quote the tutorial again, "Ultimately you are responsible for the cache..."

May 10, 2002

I don't HAVE to put matches in. I was thinking that something like that may go well with a "survival kit" theme.

However, I do agree with the others in that I don't think the waterproof matches are inherently dangerous. At least, not more so than the lighters we've found.

May 10, 2002

I don't HAVE to put matches in. I was thinking that something like that may go well with a "survival kit" theme.

However, I do agree with the others in that I don't think the waterproof matches are inherently dangerous. At least, not more so than the lighters we've found.

1k · May 10, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Misguided One:
...

"Please!,no Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, Prescription or Illicit Drugs. Let's keep this _safe_ & legal."..."Ultimately you are responsible for the cache..."_

So ...are you saying that my cache idea ... a multiple cache with parts of my ex-boss spread over the country's not a good idea?????? Geesh ... now what am I going to do with him?

----------------------------------------------------------------

Co-founder of the "NC/VA GEO-HOG ASSOCIATION"

... when you absolutely have to find it first!

1k · May 10, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Misguided One:
...

"Please!,no Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, Prescription or Illicit Drugs. Let's keep this _safe_ & legal."..."Ultimately you are responsible for the cache..."_

So ...are you saying that my cache idea ... a multiple cache with parts of my ex-boss spread over the country's not a good idea?????? Geesh ... now what am I going to do with him?

----------------------------------------------------------------

Co-founder of the "NC/VA GEO-HOG ASSOCIATION"

... when you absolutely have to find it first!

May 10, 2002

Sorry for getting back on topic once again, you know, putting unique items in caches--there is a cache hider in this area that was putting rare solid silver and solid gold coins in one-time-only caches. Once they were found, it was finders keepers, and the cache was archived. At first I was a little sceptical, but then I got cuaght up in searching for these, and I found it was a refreshing break from searching for glad-ware containers full of McToys. My fiancée and I found one of these, and even though I'm letting her have the finders credit, we're sharing the coins, and my idea of placing opening day Star Wars tickets in a cache is kind of one way to "pay it forward". Happy cachin'!!!

www.1800goguard.com

May 11, 2002

Leaving non McD's items in caches......

We had a cache where a newby decided to leave somthing "interesting". The log read that he left a brass treasure box but that he wouldn't discloce what was unside and that you would have to find it to descover the contents.......sent out to check on the cache that day and it was gone........

I had envisioned harrific things inside the treasure box ...hey with my imagination I'm afraid to watch CSI........

Well fearless found it last night.......where is was supposed to be......... and the treasure box had penny's for only under 8 to trade..... still seems weird...... but hey the box is back!

DxChallenged

"Have you no news on your travels?" the Book of fairy & folk tales of Ireland (1888)

38.2k · May 11, 2002

I still don't see the problem with matches or lighters in most caches. It's extremely unlikely that some unsupervised 7 year old will stumble on most caches if they are placed with care (caches placed in urban parks excepted). As far as lighters exploding, I can't imagine the inside of a cache, typically hidden in a crevice or under a fallen tree, getting any hotter than the inside of my car on a sunny July day. In 25 years of driving and having lighters in my car, I've never had one explode, nor have I heard of it happening to anyone else.

Maybe if you paint an ammo can black and lay it out in the hot sun...but still, I doubt even that would get the inside hot enough to cause a lighter to explode. I may in fact experiment with that on a sunny day to see just how hot it gets inside. That would be good to know for those who place candles and other heat sensitive items in a cache.

If you're making a survival kit, go ahead and put in matches. it wouldn't be much of a survival kit without some.

May 11, 2002

MWMM15T, that Star wars leave was a great idea! You near NY at all?

Hawk-eye, TOO funny about the "Boss Cache"!

I like that idea of the rare coins. Sometimes you can get a lot (as in, "one lot" as opposed to "very many" but you knew this) at shows or swap meets.

~Echo2000

May 11, 2002

MWMM15T, that Star wars leave was a great idea! You near NY at all?

Hawk-eye, TOO funny about the "Boss Cache"!

I like that idea of the rare coins. Sometimes you can get a lot (as in, "one lot" as opposed to "very many" but you knew this) at shows or swap meets.

~Echo2000

May 11, 2002

Echo, sorry, I'm in Minnesota--but there are lots of great caches to be found in this area, and the theater has stadium seating, Dolby stereo surround THX etc. etc. etc. sound if you want to come out. 15T

www.1800goguard.com

May 11, 2002

Since I don't know how, I'll have to just refer to past messages. First of all, George (of GeorgeandMary) I thought your "it could happen" scenario was hilarious. You just never know, now do you?

As far as lighters and matches, I don't care much for lighters but only because I equate them with smoking which I don't care much for. But hey, it's a free country (sort of) and they're legal so if you must... As far as matches, these I see more as tools. I know, it's semantics but that's just the way I feel, especially with waterproof matches in a survival kit. A very useful tool at that. We heat with wood and my kids fully understand that matches are used for building fires for heat, cooking, etc., not for burning down the house. Of course a couple of conversations with mom and dad, plus consistant good examples and any kid could grasp this concept...

Finally, the Star Wars tickets are a fantastic idea! Too bad we're not closer to Minnesota!

GeoMedic - team leader of GeoStars

May 11, 2002

Since I don't know how, I'll have to just refer to past messages. First of all, George (of GeorgeandMary) I thought your "it could happen" scenario was hilarious. You just never know, now do you?

As far as lighters and matches, I don't care much for lighters but only because I equate them with smoking which I don't care much for. But hey, it's a free country (sort of) and they're legal so if you must... As far as matches, these I see more as tools. I know, it's semantics but that's just the way I feel, especially with waterproof matches in a survival kit. A very useful tool at that. We heat with wood and my kids fully understand that matches are used for building fires for heat, cooking, etc., not for burning down the house. Of course a couple of conversations with mom and dad, plus consistant good examples and any kid could grasp this concept...

Finally, the Star Wars tickets are a fantastic idea! Too bad we're not closer to Minnesota!

GeoMedic - team leader of GeoStars

May 12, 2002

I want one! It is a great idea: a signature item in a small, waterproof container, with fish hooks (you could put masking tape or a small piece of cork over the barb), fishing line, an emergency/space blanket, waterproof matches or a flint/striker, snake bite or bug bite kit, small Avon-style packets of sunscreen, a tiny pocket knife (Wal-Mart: 88 cents) and maybe some water purification tablets.

Or a similar container with first-aid items in it. Small packs of neosporin, band-aids, a tourniquet (sp?)... etc. All with a small laminated card inside with first-aid guidelines and your name, logo and email address. Do you mind if I make a few of those myself? Pretty cool idea.

If someone went out for a tough cache, 3 or higher on terrain, and got lost going back to their car, or caught out in someway, or fell and broke their leg and needed to wait for help, a kit like that would really come in handy. Assuming that they were foolish enough not to have some of those things with them in the first place.

As for matches being dangerous: So would a coin be in a cache if you aren't supervising your small kids. As was mentioned, so are plastic bags, so are the plastic bags on McKid's toys, for that matter! They come with warnings. Most plastic shopping bags have small oval parts of the bag that come off when the bag is separated from the other bags. Kids get those and can choke. Hell, I've seen kids with noses so full of mucus that it is a wonder they don't suffocate! I can put Kleenex in my caches but it won't make the parents teach their kids the proper way to use them!

If you have kids, do you have matches at home? Lighters? If you think that by putting them out of reach of your kids you've made them immune to their own curiosity, you are in for a big surprise. Just as with guns, teaching children what is safe, what is acceptable and what is bad and will get them hurt or killed is essential in helping them to grow up in an adult world. My kids are more likely to get hit by an idiot while playing on the sidewalk in front of my house than to burn themselves with the waterproof matches I place in geocaches.

We found a 4/4 cache the other day that had been hidden for a year and never found. It had a small bottle of Sangria wine in it. Well-fermented wine now. We traded for it. We won't drink it - it will get poured down the drain, or used as marinade , but I didn't want to listen to anyone else WINE about it later. Water would have been more appropriate considering the cache, but it wasn't about the contents, really.

As for chain-gang road crews finding your cache... hell, if they can make weapons out of toilet paper rolls, what makes you think that that happy meal toy you left is any less dangerous in a hardened criminals hands? And what the hell is a geocache doing right next to the highway, anyway? It is more likely to be found and plundered by hitchhikers, and we all know how dangerous THEY can be!

Use common sense, people. I always put items in for trade that would be helpful or useful to someone hiking, camping or fishing. My pack is filled with fish hook removers, lures, emergency blankets, waterproof matches, rain ponchos, slow-burning candles and batteries (which will also explode if overheated, right?). If others are allowing their children to rifle through caches unsupervised, then it is they who are a problem and dangerous, not the folks that placed the useful articles.

----------

Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

GeoGadgets Team Website

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May 12, 2002