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TheGertridgeExplorers

Permission from Ontario Conservation Authorities

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I am trying to get permission from the Otonabee Conservation Authority to place our first cache on CA land. They asked if there were any other examples of caches placed on CA lands. I have e-mailed cache owners in my area to see if they got permission from the CA, but I was wondering if there are any Ontario cachers out there who have obtained permission from a Conservation Authority to place a cache on CA land. If so, may I have your CA contact person's name to give to my contact at OCA? It doesn't sound like they are exactly thrilled with the idea of geocaching... yet. There concerns seem to be about liability.

 

Thanks for your help,

 

Donna G.

 

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- "The Home of Our Hearts"

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Donna over the past year of geocaching I cannot recall ever seeing the subject of permission to hide caches in Canadian parks come up either on this discussion forum or on individual cache pages. It certainly is a concern in the U.S. but so far we have not had to worry about it in Canada. I'm curious why you feel as though permission is required.

Olar

 

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I thought one of the rules for hiding a cache was to ask permission - whether it was from a private land owner, or from the land management agency that looks after the public lands you wish to hide a cache on. I think it is a good idea, because some areas have environmentally sensitive habitats, or are Areas of Natural or Scientific Interest. Even if you contact an agency they may not tell you why an area is designated because the information is classified as "sensitive". I work for the Ministry of Natural Resources, and spend my days looking at mapping data, but there is some information I do not have access to because of its sensitive nature, such as threatened plant and animal habitats, archaeological sites, and the roads leading to those areas.

Most of the places that we as geocachers hide caches are not far off of the main trails, and do not pose a big threat to the surrounding habitat, but it doesn't hurt to ask before you place a cache.

Am I wrong? Am I the only one who has asked permission to place a cache? Should I feel guilty if I hide one without asking permission?

 

HELP!!

 

-Donna G.

 

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- "The Home of Our Hearts"

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quote:
Even if you contact an agency they may not tell you why an area is designated because the information is classified as "sensitive". I work for the Ministry of Natural Resources, and spend my days looking at mapping data, but there is some information I do not have access to because of its sensitive nature, such as threatened plant and animal habitats, archaeological sites, and the roads leading to those areas.

-snip-

Am I wrong? Am I the only one who has asked permission to place a cache? Should I feel guilty if I hide one without asking permission?


 

Olar is correct that so far there has been little or no discussion on asking "permission". That old rule of firgiveness is easier seems to apply.

 

You are completely correct in asking though! I think there is just a fear of what could happen if they say no. I would recommend that you if you work for the MNR you try to get some sort of permit system in permit system that I proposed in other venues was rejected by the American readers, mainly a cultural difference I fear.

 

I envisioned visiting a web page at and submitting details of the cache. On the day you are planting you go to the office (or ahead of time by mail) to pay for and pick up your permit. Your permit fee to plant would be $5 or $10 and cover the cost of the paper and to have someone check out the proposed location in their list of "sensitive" areas to decide wether or not to allow it. When you go out to plant the cache you would put a copy of the permit in the front of the log book and keep a copy for yourself.

 

Here is my original post:

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002089.html

 

Good Luck!

 

Rob

Mobile Cache Command

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You may be interested to know that I have finally been given permission to hide a Geocache on Otonabee Conservation Authority lands. We will be meeting with a park supervisor shortly to hide the cache on a six month trial basis. If all goes well, and everyone shows them what a wonderful benefit caches are to their Areas, I will be allowed to continue hiding caches on their lands.

 

If anyone wants a copy of my e-mail correspondance, or my CA contact as a reference for your own Areas, let me know and I will forward my successful bid to get permission from the local Land Managers, to you.

 

-Donna G

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Donna,

Another angle you could work on is to have the CA's hide caches. The Cleveland Metro Parks have hidden 6-10 caches in their parks, and here in the Detroit area, the Metropark people have hidden one so far. Look at GC5B80. Congradulations on getting permission for the first one.

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It may interest you to know that back in Feb/Mar2002 I contected the Bruce Trail Conservation Authority by phone and talked to a lady who didn't know about Geocaching. When I explained the sport and that I was doing the right thing... making a request --before-- I placed the cache, she got all upset stating they didn't want mobs of people walking on the trail. (duhhh) What's the trail for -- rabbits and chipmunks? She got right angry that someone would deliberately place something on "their" land to increase pedestrian traffic. She wanted to know who I was, and what right I had to do this to their "virgin" scenic trail. She demanded my name, address, and phone number... said she was going to have the "AUTHORITIES" come round and "talk" to me. yup -- Geseppi and Loui with their "knee-cap-pipe". I hung up on her

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Regarding the Bruce Trail call, I hope this lady was not speaking for the Association, but I fear that a lot of these environmentalists suffer from a "holier than thou" complex. That, and a compulsion to spout statistics at the slighest excuse. I feel most geocachers are far more responsible that the people who leave garbage all over "their" trail. I try to clean up a bit of it when I'm on the Bruce, but it's like working on the ocean with a spoon. I wonder if the lady can say "cooperation"? Despite what she thinks, they do not "own" the Niagara Escarpment.

 

[This message was edited by yorelken on September 01, 2002 at 06:11 AM.]

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There are already lots of Goecaches on the Bruce. Heck, I almost purchased a BT guide recently (I wasn't sure if the store had the most recent version so I held off). Almost all of these are very near the trail.

 

Whenever I've headed out on a branch of the BT I've run into lots and lots of people, NONE of which appear to be cachers. I've even chatted with people a few times and they've never heard of Geocaching.

 

As for spoiling the area, I could probably give you the coordinates for a car, a few appliances, and a couple of sofas if I'd been keeping track. Not to mention the $*@# cigarette butts. (Personally I'd like the right to carry a cattle prod and STICK anyone I find throwing a cigarette butt on the ground. What do these people think? MY planet is their freaking ashtray?!?!)

 

...Opps sorry! Ok... deep breaths... oooommmm. oooommmm.

 

Rob

Mobile Cache Command

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quote:
Originally posted by mrcpu:

There are already lots of Goecaches on the Bruce. Heck, I almost purchased a BT guide recently (I wasn't sure if the store had the most recent version so I held off).


If you happen to have Fugawi software and topos you can purchase the complete GPS tracks of the Bruce Trail system, main trail and side-trails. I use it extensively when planning hikes and/or cache hunting.

Cheers, Olar

 

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quote:
Originally posted by Olar:

quote:
Originally posted by mrcpu:

_There are already lots of Goecaches on the Bruce. Heck, I almost purchased a BT guide recently (I wasn't sure if the store had the most recent version so I held off)._


If you happen to have Fugawi software and topos you can purchase the complete GPS tracks of the Bruce Trail system, main trail and side-trails. I use it extensively when planning hikes and/or cache hunting.

Cheers, Olar

 

http://www.plauder-smilies.com/wavey.gif


 

I bought the Bruce Trail map CD by Fugawi but it is just maps that cover the area... no trail information. Where did you get yours?

 

Rob

Mobile Cache Command

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I now have 4 cache sites picked out -- two on the Bruce Trail (BT), one in a nature reserve, and another on the shore of Georgian Bay. While searching the BT and other spots this summer I've seen all kinds of wild and crazy people hiking, biking, and generally tramping all over the place, both on and off the trails, with little or no reguard for nature. The mountain bikers seem to be the worst offenders, as they rocket along as fast as they can, taking short cuts across flat areas and not staying on the trails. Being run over at 30-40 klm/h by these two wheeled rocket nuts will not make your day. And the trail of destruction left behind by these speed freaks is astounding. They can cover 5-10 times the distance in a day then those of us on foot.

 

The sense of care and responsibility shown toward nature by Geocachers seems well above many other types of trial users. I beleive the slow pace of searching for the caches allows us to see more of nature and thus have a far greater appreciation of it, and its various forms -- plants and animals. I too have seen the discarded items in the woods -- vehicles, furniture, appliances, and real garbage in bags, boxes, and other assorted containers. Thankfully, Geocaching has not been labelled "garbage" yet. Keep up the good work folks...... "cache in -- trash out".

 

I understand the "ethical need" for obtaining permission to place a cache, but given the violent knee-jerk reactions some of us are receiving from various authories, it seems we need to get organized here in Ontario. There are many other outdoor associations representing other "sports" and they have "clout", an official voice and large memberships (voters/taxpayers) to persuade authorities and politicians to bend the rules for these special interest memberships/associations. Geocaching doesn't have a bloody nose yet, but sooner or later some authority will pounce on "Geocaching" and it will be too late to organize. We will be on the defense (a negative position) instead of in a neutral or positive position. Given our clean record so far, we shouldn't be waiting for the bloody nose to happen.

 

[This message was edited by P38manCdn on October 06, 2002 at 09:10 PM.]

 

[This message was edited by P38manCdn on October 06, 2002 at 09:14 PM.]

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By all means, get organized, have permits (renewable every year), fees, rules, wait six months to get approval, and on and on, but you won't be doing it with me. Just what we need in this country, another level of authority, and of course, more taxes, the Canadian answer to every problem.

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