Found a Strange Bench Mark

[+ItsDiamondWolf]

So, I found this bench mark in a really strange spot and took a picture of it, thinking nothing of it. Well a few weeks later I try to log it and could not, I tried to find it on Waymarking and could not find it, So I asked the Facebook Group for some help and someone said it was in Washington DC but I am like now I found it in Frenchburg Kentucky according to my Apple Photos pinging my location, well they could not find it as well and then I found a really weird article online and when they read it, they said it looked odd, I am not great at Benchmarks or Waymarks, Just started to get into them but its bizzare location and all this made want to post one here and see what you guys think. 

 

Here is the PDF I found they said looked odd LINK . It also its a Highway design map? 

Anyways I guess I cant log it or anything but its cool none the less.

 

I also uploaded a Picture of it.

[+Max and 99]

2 hours ago, ItsDiamondWolf said:

Anyways I guess I cant log it or anything but its cool none the less.

Coordinates?

[Bill93]

It's a US Geological Survey mark. Only some small fraction of those were measured to the standards of the US Coast and Geodetic Survey and submitted to that agency, now called National Geodetic Survey.

The list on Geocaching is a 20-year old snapshot of the NGS data base. So it isn't surprising when a USGS mark is not in the list here.

[+ItsDiamondWolf]

7 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

Coordinates?

I don't have DDM corrds as I did not think to take them. I went on google and took those cords where the bridge was.

37.819963, -83.574948

[Bill93]

Note on page 9 the mark 15 JWM 1950 has the notation "Tied by NGS 1950" which most of the ones in this pdf do not have. It is typical that few were so tied.

 

That notation is a bit strange because the agency was still C & GS in 1950, so someone added the note much later..

Edited September 7, 2021 by Bill93

[Bill93]

What did you think was odd about its location? The USGS pdf  says it is on a bridge, a very common location.

 

The map in the pdf shows the routes used by the leveling crew that made the measurements. They often used roads and railroad routes, so the lines could represent either, or even cross-country routes sometimes. The lists on the following pages list the points measured, so you can trace out the route from that.

[+ItsDiamondWolf]

4 hours ago, Bill93 said:

What did you think was odd about its location? The USGS pdf  says it is on a bridge, a very common location.

 

The map in the pdf shows the routes used by the leveling crew that made the measurements. They often used roads and railroad routes, so the lines could represent either, or even cross-country routes sometimes. The lists on the following pages list the points measured, so you can trace out the route from that.

All the ones I have seen have been next to the bridge or like in the middle of nowhere, I have only done a few but I just thought it was strange that it was actually in the bridge and not next to it.

[kayakbird]

ItsDiamondWolf,  Do a search for 'settings'  in this forum.  Many, many possibilities - I particularly liked the 'chiseled square' in rocks or concrete.  kayakbird

[Bill93]

I've seen hundreds of bench marks and only one chiseled square. Apparently there wasn't much leveling done in my home area other than on disks and occasional items in concrete. That one was PX0154 in downtown Cody, WY on a building foundation or wall. And it looks like I failed to report it after our trip.

[foxtrot_xray]

4 hours ago, Bill93 said:

I've seen hundreds of bench marks and only one chiseled square. Apparently there wasn't much leveling done in my home area other than on disks and occasional items in concrete. That one was PX0154 in downtown Cody, WY on a building foundation or wall. And it looks like I failed to report it after our trip.

Interesting - I personally love the chisled items - squares,circles, triangles. Heck - there's a really neat one up in Wyoming west of Cheyenne - at the Ames Monument.

 

I did a quick search of this mark in @op's post in the NGS database from August, and it was not tied into the NGS database, so you won't be able to log it here on GC.com; and if it's not on Waymarking, you may need to create a new waypoint there.

[kayakbird]

All,  Most of my found chiseled marks  are in the southwest with a few northeast of Duluth.  Remembered that there was one somewhere in ND, and it took awhile to dredge TG0045 out of my transit book for August 2009.  Was interesting to see that the 'Unknown by CGS (MONUMENTED)' has been updated to 'TG0045 HISTORY - 1913 MONUMENTED CGS' in the current  DATASHEET.   MEL

Photos  in link: 

https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_mark.prl?PidBox=TG0045

 

[Bill93]

I was at the Ames Brothers monument wikipedia   (intersection station) a couple years ago, but was busy touristing and didn't check for benchmarks. Darn.

https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_mark.prl?PidBox=MO0477

[kayakbird]

Albany County, Wyo is a hotspot for a sub-set of very interesting marks.  The 'and State Survey' series from a special, but very short lived, Depression Era program.  Tried, but failed, to find a link to one of Jerry Penry's write up on these.  The linked PDF covers everything.  kayakbird

 

Bottles, Pots, & Pans?-Marking the surveys of the U.S. Coast ...

https://www.ngs.noaa.gov › Survey_Mark_Art

 

 

[Bill93]

I found this on Jerry's site, but it is a minimal article.

http://www.penryfamily.com/surveying/statesurvey.html

[kayakbird]

Thanks, Bill.  Attached is an old thread of mine on these points:

https://forums.geocaching.com/GC/index.php?/topic/262734-1930s-state-survey-benchmark-motherlode/

 

[foxtrot_xray]

My favorite chiseled marks are:

https://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=EE0017

because of the location, history, and the fun way to get there, and
https://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=EE0061

Because it is so easy and plain to see, and old.

[kayakbird]

Datasheet history for EE0017 has been updated; but not EE0061.  

EE0017  HISTORY     - Date     Condition        Report By
 EE0017  HISTORY     - 1900     MONUMENTED       CGS

My all time favorite - a recessed square; which took a rod with a special end.   History also now updated.  Sorry for the repeat reference from several threads ago. 

EV0852  HISTORY     - Date     Condition        Report By
 EV0852  HISTORY     - 1907     MONUMENTED       CGS

MEL

https://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=ev0852

[Z15]

fyi

Quote

The U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), an agency in the Dept. of the Interior has the responsibility for producing our national topographic maps. They completed the monumental task of complete national mapping of the 1:24,000 scale map series (about 55,000 maps) in the early 1990's. USGS would often set survey monuments to help "control" the map. Maps are produced from aeronautical photos mosaiced together. In order to provide accurate location, orientation, scale and elevation to a flat map of a curved surface, it is required to have numerous points that can be identified on the photographs for which the coordinates/elevations are well known. The marks set by USGS were a vital part of this operation. In the days when mapping surveys were conducted primarily by line-of-site methods, these marks helped save money by helping to ensure a network that cartographers could rely on for mapping update procedures. With the rapid developments in surveying and mapping technology, especially GPS, USGS sees little need to setting new marks or maintaining the old networks. Unfortunately the data for tens of thousands of these marks set by USGS were never submitted to NGS for inclusion in the National Spatial Reberence System. Due to major reductions in staff and the changing nature of mapping requirements, it is highly unlikely that USGS will ever automate these data.

 

PS - The abbreviation "U. E." stands for Useful Elevation. 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Z15

[foxtrot_xray]

On 9/9/2021 at 4:54 PM, kayakbird said:

Datasheet history for EE0017 has been updated; but not EE0061.  
History also now updated.

"History updated"?

[kayakbird]

foxtrot_xray & all,

Many of the Geocache one time snapshot Datasheets monument-ed dates have been changed.  Quite a few, I think, because of information  in all the Precise Level Net documents that floated to the surface with internet searches.  I believe that PLN-18 was one that I used extensively a dozen years ago, but can't pull it up right now.  MEL

[foxtrot_xray]

2 hours ago, kayakbird said:

foxtrot_xray & all,

Many of the Geocache one time snapshot Datasheets monument-ed dates have been changed.  Quite a few, I think, because of information  in all the Precise Level Net documents that floated to the surface with internet searches.  I believe that PLN-18 was one that I used extensively a dozen years ago, but can't pull it up right now.  MEL

Okay, yeah, I misread your comment to infer that YOU updated something, which really, really threw me for a loop.

 

There have been some changes in years past in the Datasheet program on how it interprets log entries for stations, which likely helped these stations get an accurate monumented date.

(I only know this because one such update that was made back about a year ago) caused a whole bunch of logs that had no status, no agency, and no date appear tacked onto the history list on the datasheet. Had to talk to them and point out some stations that were causing this.