Geocaching and the Longhorn Council, BSA

[+Web-ling]

I was approached by the Program Director for the Longhorn Council of the Boy Scouts of America about doing geocaching at Sid Richardson Scout Ranch on Lake Bridgeport. I wanted to get some feedback from other cachers before I pursue this too much further.

 

Background:

 

Sid Richardson Scout Ranch is a 3500-acre camp on Lake Bridgeport. In addition to Boy Scouts, the camp is regularly used by many outside groups, including other youth organizations, business organizations, the North Texas Orienteering Association, hunters, and many other groups. I have camped there with Scout troops since 1986. The Longhorn Council hired me in 1995 to produce orienteering maps of 2500 acres of the camp, a project that allowed me to visit nearly every square meter of the 2500 acres I field checked. I’ve been places the rangers have never ventured to. I have helped put on several orienteering meets over the last 7 years, both for the Scouts and for the general public through NTOA. My experience, both as a Scout leader and as an orienteer, is that the camp management is eager to work with outside groups and very easy to work with.

 

Most of the top orienteers who have competed there consider this area to be the best orienteering area in Texas, due to the varied terrain and vegetation. From a geocaching perspective, this is one of the most target-rich areas I know of in North Texas. The terrain would support many types of caches, from easy 1/1 beginner’s caches to diabolical 5/5 multis. The scenery, geology, vegetation, historical sites, and just plain interesting features could support at least 50 excellent caches with no difficulty.

 

The idea:

 

The Scouts have been getting numerous inquiries about geocaching from scout troops and others. What the Scouts would like to do is to place 20-30 caches at the camp. I would be working with them to design the caches, as well as getting input from other cachers. The caches would be available for Scout troops, other groups using the camp, as well as individual geocachers.

 

Because so many different groups use the camp for so many different activities, they want to have control over access to the caches. For instance, certain areas might need to be temporarily off-limits during summer camp, Camporees, hunting season, and so forth. The proposal is to list the coordinates of the ranger’s house as the geocaching.com coordinates for all 20-30 caches. In order to hunt the caches, a person or group would need to call ahead and make a reservation. Upon arrival, the ranger would provide the actual coordinates for the caches. Although I haven’t discussed this with my contact, I expect there would be a daily entrance fee similar to that of the Texas State Parks.

 

In addition to allowing individuals and groups to hunt the caches throughout the year, the scouts have proposed hosting a weekend-long geocaching event once a year. The camp would have available camping facilities, cottages, and dormitories, as well as offering meals in the dining hall. We would organize the majority of the programs and events, although they would work closely with us. The NTOA orienteering club will be having our 6th annual event at the camp, and most orienteers consider it to be one of the best events of the year.

 

The Scouts are eager to work with us to get the ball rolling. They want to do this right. There won’t be any trash caches. The caches would be well maintained, and well designed. They want input from the geocaching community to ensure they produce a good program. I will be discussing the details this weekend with the Program Director for the Longhorn Council.

 

Benefits:

1. The Scouts would incorporate geocaching into the official program offerings at the camp. Thousands of people would be introduced to geocaching!

2. 20-30 top-notch caches in close proximity to each other available to the general public. A cache-bagger’s delight!

3. A great location for an annual event, with accommodations and support.

 

Discussion:

 

1. Does this sound too commercial? The scouts clearly want to generate income through this. The daily entrance fee doesn’t amount to anything, but they could make a lot of money through a weekend event.

2. Does the controlled access idea bother anyone? The Scouts need to protect their interests while keeping things as open as possible.

3. What other concerns are there?

4. Would there be support for an annual event?

5. Would anyone else besides me be willing to help design and place the caches?

 

I will be posting this on both the Groundspeak forum under the South and Southeast forum, as well as the Yahoo! dfwgeocaching discussion group. I appreciate any and all feedback, as long as there’s no “bashing.”

 

Thanks

 

Rich Wendling

aka Web-ling

 

[+Brokenwing]

quote:

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Originally posted by Web-ling:

1. Does this sound too commercial? The scouts clearly want to generate income through this. The daily entrance fee doesn’t amount to anything, but they could make a lot of money through a weekend event.

2. Does the controlled access idea bother anyone? The Scouts need to protect their interests while keeping things as open as possible.

3. What other concerns are there?

4. Would there be support for an annual event?

5. Would anyone else besides me be willing to help design and place the caches?

---

 

1. I’m not too concerned about the "commercial" aspect of it, but I have to ask, if the daily fees don’t amount to anything, why have them? Also unless they require payment from others that periodically day-use the location, then the idea of "paying just to geocache" is a concern. In other words, State Parks charge a fee to everyone that enters, regardless of use. If this is what the Longhorn Council does, then it’s fine to do that. If however, they are just wanting to charge geocachers, then I’m much more concerned. I feel it needs to be equitable, regardless of use.

 

I guess I’m also a little concerned that a slow group like my family could take many weeks to find all the caches in such a place, so we’d spend a lot more on this than some folks. If I had to make enough trips, the fees could add up. This is one of the reasons we purchased an annual pass for the State Parks, and I personally would like to see a similar option if they feel a usage fee is needed.

 

2. I am a little concerned about the idea of the reservation being needed. Lot’s of folks just don’t cache that way. They don’t plan ahead that thoroughly, like to be free to do certain caches as time allows, and don’t want to be beholden to a schedule. This requirement will likely cut way down on the number of folks that actually hunt these, I imagine. I’m also concerned about the folks that hunt just from coordinates. These people may just start poking around the ranger’s place looking for a cache. There will also likely be many folks that just show up without a reservation since there are a lot of people that don’t read the cache listing very well. That sort of thing could be a bit of a problem for both sides.

 

What if they just made their caches unavailable when they had an event or something that made caches not huntable? They could easily swap them back and forth as needed. It’s not a prefect solution, but to me, neither is the reservation idea.

 

3. I’m not in favor of combining all these into one listing as someone suggested on the yahoo forums. It would make logging a real problem. What cache was "XYZ" talking about in their log? Also, how would you rate terrain and difficulty if they were combined? How would someone log them all? Would they log every find on that one listing? Man, what a mess!

 

4. Yes, I think the annual event would be a great idea. I have no problem with fees being charged for this, by the way. We’d have to pay such fees anywhere we held an event, so I’m not at all concerned about that.

 

5. I’d be happy to be involved with setting up some caches, but if I did, I’d want them to be mine, not controlled by BSA. They’d have the right to control where and when it was placed and when it can be hunted (just like a State Park), but if they want to "take it over" after I placed it, I don’t think I’d want to bother placing one.

 

Scott / Brokenwing

http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

[+martinp13]

quote:

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Originally posted by Scott Thomason:

 

2. I am a little concerned about the idea of the reservation being needed. Lot’s of folks just don’t cache that way. They don’t plan ahead that thoroughly, like to be free to do certain caches as time allows, and don’t want to be beholden to a schedule. This requirement will likely cut way down on the number of folks that actually hunt these, I imagine. I’m also concerned about the folks that hunt just from coordinates. These people may just start poking around the ranger’s place looking for a cache. There will also likely be many folks that just show up without a reservation since there are a lot of people that don’t read the cache listing very well. That sort of thing could be a bit of a problem for both sides.

---

If they just hunt by coordinates, then there's no good solution. Whether the coordinates are all at the Ranger station or at the actual locations, coord-only hunters will still show up at the camp gate unannounced.

 

I don't tend to worry about those people, since I think it's a pretty dumb way to approach caching. If you can't bother to read the directions, then you get what ya get. I happened to be in the area of the Oswald Revisited cache this weekend, and thought I remembered there was a new part 2 to lead you to part 3, so I went even tho I didn't have the printout. Guess what? I found nothing, since I needed more data from the printout. No one's fault but mine. (And no, I didn't log a frowny!)

quote:

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3. I’m not in favor of combining all these into one listing as someone suggested on the yahoo forums. It would make logging a real problem. _What cache was "XYZ" talking about in their log?_ Also, how would you rate terrain and difficulty if they were combined? How would someone log them all? Would they log every find on that one listing? Man, what a mess!

---

Ouch... I hadn't thought about that! Nightmare!

quote:

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5. I’d be happy to be involved with setting up some caches, but if I did, I’d want them to be mine, not controlled by BSA. They’d have the right to control where and when it was placed and when it can be hunted (just like a State Park), but if they want to "take it over" after I placed it, I don’t think I’d want to bother placing one.

---

I agree on this point too... if the Scouts want to create their own caches to place, then they would "own" those. But my cache is my cache, subject to their availability rules.

 

We definitely need to hear more about all of this. Please let us know how your meeting goes.

 

> Martin (Magellan 330)

Don't have time to program and record your shows while geocaching? Get a TiVo!

[+DougsBrat]

quote:

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Originally posted by Web-ling:

I was approached by the Program Director for the Longhorn Council of the Boy Scouts of America about doing geocaching at Sid Richardson Scout Ranch on Lake Bridgeport.

 

---

 

That sounds like a great resource, I have worked with scouts on several occasions with SCUBA related activities.

I am a bit suprised that they are opening up to non-scout users though, and can understand why there are many details which would need to be worked out for this to work.

 

No matter where you go... there you are!

[+pizzachef]

I don't think your idea is as flawed as it's being made out to be. If the scout ranch is like any that I've been to, then the area isn't generally open to the public, and people probably wouldn't go there if they weren't geocaching...or am I wrong on that point? The reason I bring it up is the entry fee and the idea of charging geocachers to do what they do best. But as Scott said, I'd have no problem with paying a few bucks to go onto private land to cache...and the anual/monthly pass is a good idea as well seeing as most people won't finish 20 caches of ranging difficulty in a day.

 

As far as helping with the hiding...I don't see how the camp could keep control of the caches without "owning" them. I think it's fair for you to ask other cachers to help the scouts plan and place caches, and I'd be happy to if I were a little closer. Surly there's a few people in the area who would like to get out give the scouts a hand (trust me, I know how tough it can be to control a troop ). And as long as you put a big statement on the cache listing to call ahead, there shouldn't be too much of a problem with people just showing up.

 

In short, I think you've got a good opportunity on your hands. An annual event would be great...it seems like there's a bunch of active cachers in your area. Amd I think anything that helps out the scouts is a good idea.

[+pizzachef]

I don't think your idea is as flawed as it's being made out to be. If the scout ranch is like any that I've been to, then the area isn't generally open to the public, and people probably wouldn't go there if they weren't geocaching...or am I wrong on that point? The reason I bring it up is the entry fee and the idea of charging geocachers to do what they do best. But as Scott said, I'd have no problem with paying a few bucks to go onto private land to cache...and the anual/monthly pass is a good idea as well seeing as most people won't finish 20 caches of ranging difficulty in a day.

 

As far as helping with the hiding...I don't see how the camp could keep control of the caches without "owning" them. I think it's fair for you to ask other cachers to help the scouts plan and place caches, and I'd be happy to if I were a little closer. Surly there's a few people in the area who would like to get out give the scouts a hand (trust me, I know how tough it can be to control a troop ). And as long as you put a big statement on the cache listing to call ahead, there shouldn't be too much of a problem with people just showing up.

 

In short, I think you've got a good opportunity on your hands. An annual event would be great...it seems like there's a bunch of active cachers in your area. Amd I think anything that helps out the scouts is a good idea.

[+Moore9KSUcats]

The proposal sounds great to me, providing a few rough edges are smoothed over a bit.

 

(1) I have no problem with an entrance fee. It is private property bought and maintained by BSA for the scouts. I would like to see a season pass or membership (4 letter word?). Would scout groups, individual scouts, scout families get a special break or prefered access with reservations? We're already supporting the camp.

 

(2) Controlled access is fine. The area has to continue to serve it's original scouting purpose and unlimited access could interfere with that and cause security concerns. Reservations are fine with me. Getting the final coordinates from a ranger sounds workable. Would there be a limit to the number of geocachers in the area at any given time, or a limit for each cache, or is the purpose of the reservation just to keep track of who's on the property?

 

(3a) How would we log the finds? I don't think this will work unless each find can be individually logged and credit given. Maybe they could be set up as inidividual MOC (another 4 letter word?) with coordinates only to the main gate.

 

(3b) The scouts/camp should have ownership of the caches and be responsible for their maintenance. I would be willing to help place them and even to help maintain them as a service to the scout program. I strongly feel that no individual credit is needed or should be expected for helping with this project.

 

(4) A geocaching weekend as described would be great!

 

(5) I'm ready to help out any way I can.

[+Brokenwing]

quote:

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Originally posted by martinp13:

If they just hunt by coordinates, then there's no good solution. Whether the coordinates are all at the Ranger station or at the actual locations, coord-only hunters will still show up at the camp gate unannounced.

 

I don't tend to worry about those people, since I think it's a pretty dumb way to approach caching. If you can't bother to read the directions, then you get what ya get.

---

 

It's not so much that I'm concerned about those that don't bother to read the listing well or at all, (you're right, it's their fault) it's more that I'm concerned about the rangers. I'm thinking that they will be expecting people to abide by the reservation requirement, but I'd guess as many as one or two a week won't do it. Some people are going to just show up because they didn't read the listing, or they didn't understand.

 

If this is what they are trying to prevent, it's not going to happen by putting a note in the listing to call first. I still think they need to consider making the caches unavailable when hunting is not allowed. This will help, even if it won't prevent the problem.

 

quote:

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Originally posted by martinp13:

I agree on this point too... if the Scouts want to create their own caches to place, then they would "own" those. But my cache is my cache, subject to their availability rules.

---

 

I should clarify that my biggest concern here is that this would cause me to have even more caches in my "available" list that I couldn't hunt. (Just like T-Storm's caches.)

 

If what they are wanting is general help and advice on this, I'd be more than willing. If, for example, the scouts actually develop the cache container, select and gather the contents, and do the actual hiding, I'd be happy to act as an "expert advisor" to the scouts.

 

Maybe each local troop that wanted to participate could place their own cache, but a local experienced cacher would act as advisor?

 

Originally, the way I understood what you described is that I would have to do everything I normally would do to place a cache, but once done I'd have to give the listing to BSA for them to list on geocaching.com. I'm not in favor of that. If I alone have to go through all the effort of preping and placing the cache, it should rightly be mine.

 

Scott / Brokenwing

http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

[+Web-ling]

I will be meeting this weekend to discuss some of this further, but here are some of the answers:

quote:

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I’m not too concerned about the "commercial" aspect of it, but I have to ask, if the daily fees don’t amount to anything, why have them? ... State Parks charge a fee to everyone that enters, regardless of use. If this is what the Longhorn Council does, then it’s fine to do that.

---

quote:

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Would scout groups, individual scouts, scout families get a special break or prefered access with reservations?

---

My understanding is that the Longhorn Council charges all non-scouts a fee, regardless of the activity. Registered Scouts and Scouters don't pay. This is one of the things I want to clear up this weekend.

quote:

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I am a little concerned about the idea of the reservation being needed.

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It's their property, and they have a need to control access. Again, something I plan to iron out this weekend. I suspect it may be as simple as calling the ranger the day before you plan to go out there. The reservations are simply so the rangers know who will be on the property, and why they are there.

quote:

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I’m not in favor of combining all these into one listing as someone suggested on the yahoo forums.

---

The caches will be listed individually. Cachers need to be able to plan which caches they want to do ahead of time based on individual descriptions. The logs need to be kept seperately.

quote:

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I’d be happy to be involved with setting up some caches, but if I did, I’d want them to be mine, not controlled by BSA.

---

Haven't discussed this yet with the scouts, but I think the caches will all be under a BSA account. They will purchase the materials used for the caches, and they will maintain them. However, the Scouts are a volunteer organization, and if any other experienced cachers want to volunteer to help ensure this is done well, help would be appreciated.

quote:

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I’m also concerned about the folks that hunt just from coordinates.

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Hopefully, 20-30 sets of identical coordinates will send up a red flag to these type of cachers. The "Private Property" signs might also be a clue...

quote:

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I am a bit suprised that they are opening up to non-scout users though

---

In recent years, funding for the Scouts from the United Way and other groups has gone WAY DOWN. They have been forced into opening up as a means of survival. Sid Richardson Scout Ranch has numerous outside groups using its facilities year-round. The NTOA orienteering club has a wonderful working relationship with them.

 

I appreciate the input. It has given me some direction as to some of the details that will need to be ironed out. Please continue the discussion!

 

Happy caching!

 

[+T-storm]

If the details can be resolved to the Scouts' satisfaction, I'm all in favor of this. My family has a history with the Scouts in Fort Worth (as one might gather from our Boy Scouts' Lost Cabin cache) and I suspect my dad would be tickled to have geocaching connected with the Scouts in a more tangible way. Maybe I'd finally get him to hunt one! (He did go with us to visit Lost Cabin.)

 

Here's my take on the problem with access / reservations. I completely understand their need to control access and to know who's on the property and when they might be expected to leave. I am, however, concerned for the impact to the Scouts and their camp, not so much for cachers who may not read closely enough to prepare. There are clearly stated ideas that there will be times when these caches will be inaccessible to the non-scouting public. I am concerned that this could become a headache/hazard when those who don't read or who print/download well in advance (weeks?) of the actual hunt show up during some of these periods. I think it would be a mistake not to at least mention to the BS folks that this is a possibility. One thing that may limit this is their location... the more outlying cache areas in North Texas do tend to get fewer visitors. But maybe a big clump of caches in one spot might change that? The bummer for us personally is that the reservation thing may mean that there will be fewer times we consider these caches, regardless of ratings, simply because we often go into a weekend not knowing exactly which caches we will seek or which of the 2 days we'll get out to chase them. Then sometimes, we go Saturday and still have the bug so bad we jump up and go again Sunday! But even if this is also true for other folks, that may be a good thing to keep traffic more steady. Another way to look at it... I'd be tickled pink to see the state parks decide to place and maintain caches at their for fee facilities, and I think that would be acceptable to the Geocaching.com powers that be, so as long as the BS fees are reasonable I can't see the problem.

 

I have no problem with the camp charging fees for group meeting, extended or not. I think the facilities offered (especially if the fee scale is anything close to what was described) are outstanding and would be hard to match elsewhere in the area. I think they are building/have built a lodge at the Lake Ray Roberts state parks which might offer an alternative, but I'd be willing to bet it might well be an expensive alternative and not viable until we have a better position from the parks dept. or at least until the cachers with placements there pursue permissions. As Brokenwing noted, you pay for that sort of service wherever you go. We paid for the pavilion rental for the upcoming North Texas Geogathering, and we saw a lovely aerial shot of the park on this evening's news showing one of the pavillions, possibly the one we've reserved, surrounded by water... hope it drys out well!

 

I am interested in knowing if there is room for such a thing as an annual pass and also if it is possible to arrange for casual weekend camping (as in not an event) with reservation and fees.

 

This could be way cool...

 

T-storm

 

http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

[+T-storm]

Hey, a related thought... Web-ling, since you have the ear of the scouts, you might be able to help me out later this year. I hope to put on a cleanup event at the site of Boy Scouts' Lost Cabin. I would like (maybe daydreaming) for it to be a fair-sized event including the city of Haltom City, cachers, local residents, and the Boy Scouts. This part of the park has been unfortunately used by many as a dumping ground, particularly for roofing materials and building/remodeling refuse. I'd like to see it cleaned up to the benefit of all, and to do it right will require more than just the resources of geocachers. I have previously contacted the Longhorn Council seeking information about Scouts in that area and troops that might have long ago camped there but gotten little response. Thought it a shame that there was not more interest in this part of their history. Maybe when I serve them up the history as I have now researched it and it gets presented as a public service project with the assistance of someone they know (that would be you, Web-ling! ) there would be some interest, at least on the part of local or historical troops? But that will be down the road a bit. I won't be starting to plan for that until at least May, so event itself is well into the future...

 

T-storm

 

http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

[+T-storm]

Hey, a related thought... Web-ling, since you have the ear of the scouts, you might be able to help me out later this year. I hope to put on a cleanup event at the site of Boy Scouts' Lost Cabin. I would like (maybe daydreaming) for it to be a fair-sized event including the city of Haltom City, cachers, local residents, and the Boy Scouts. This part of the park has been unfortunately used by many as a dumping ground, particularly for roofing materials and building/remodeling refuse. I'd like to see it cleaned up to the benefit of all, and to do it right will require more than just the resources of geocachers. I have previously contacted the Longhorn Council seeking information about Scouts in that area and troops that might have long ago camped there but gotten little response. Thought it a shame that there was not more interest in this part of their history. Maybe when I serve them up the history as I have now researched it and it gets presented as a public service project with the assistance of someone they know (that would be you, Web-ling! ) there would be some interest, at least on the part of local or historical troops? But that will be down the road a bit. I won't be starting to plan for that until at least May, so event itself is well into the future...

 

T-storm

 

http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

[+inceptor]

Originally posted by T-storm:

Hey, a related thought... Web-ling, since you have the ear of the scouts, you might be able to help me out later this year. I hope to put on a cleanup event at the site of Boy Scouts' Lost Cabin. I would like (maybe daydreaming) for it to be a fair-sized event including the city of Haltom City, cachers, local residents, and the Boy Scouts......... I have previously contacted the Longhorn Council seeking information about Scouts in that area and troops that might have long ago camped there but gotten little response.

T-storm

 

Another thing for the Boy Scouts to think about. Recently they have had more than their share of bad publicity hence the loss of funding. This would be great publicity for them especially if the media is brought in on this.

 

inceptor

the only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys

[+inceptor]

Originally posted by T-storm:

Hey, a related thought... Web-ling, since you have the ear of the scouts, you might be able to help me out later this year. I hope to put on a cleanup event at the site of Boy Scouts' Lost Cabin. I would like (maybe daydreaming) for it to be a fair-sized event including the city of Haltom City, cachers, local residents, and the Boy Scouts......... I have previously contacted the Longhorn Council seeking information about Scouts in that area and troops that might have long ago camped there but gotten little response.

T-storm

 

Another thing for the Boy Scouts to think about. Recently they have had more than their share of bad publicity hence the loss of funding. This would be great publicity for them especially if the media is brought in on this.

 

inceptor

the only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys

[+T-storm]

quote:

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Originally posted by inceptor:

This would be great publicity for them especially if the media is brought in on this.

---

Oh, believe me, if I take the cleanup event where I'd like to, there WILL be at least SOME media coverage. I would like to see local businesses offer some support too, in the way of things like food and drinks preferrably, and maybe money to cover publicity flyers. I'd like the city to consider things like waiving the fee to reserve the small pavillion in the park possibly (though it's a ways from the cleanup site) and definitely the trucks and dump fees necessary to the removal of the garbage.

 

When I'm ready to get started, I'll post my own topic to discuss ideas and progress. I've hijacked Web-ling's topic long enough!

 

T-storm

 

http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

[+Web-ling]

quote:

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Originally posted by T-storm:

 

When I'm ready to get started, I'll post my own topic to discuss ideas and progress. I've hijacked Web-ling's topic long enough!

 

T-storm

---

No problem!

quote:

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Hey, a related thought... Web-ling, since you have the ear of the scouts, you might be able to help me out later this year.

---

I don't have as many contacts with the Scouts as I used to. I'll see what I can do to help.

quote:

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I am interested in knowing if there is room for such a thing as an annual pass and also if it is possible to arrange for casual weekend camping (as in not an event) with reservation and fees.

---

To the best of my knowledge, there are no annual passes. Registering as a Merit Badge Counselor or with a Scout troop would allow for FREE access. I'm pretty sure they will allow some casual weekend camping, especially if it is tied to the geocaches at the camp. I'll inquire about both.

 

[+Brokenwing]

quote:

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Originally posted by Scott Thomason:

Maybe each local troop that wanted to participate could place their own cache, but a local experienced cacher would act as advisor?

---

 

Sorry to quote myself, but I was hoping for some feedback on this idea. What do you think, Web-ling? Maybe individual scouts could do the work and possibly earn a "geocaching" merit badge? We could incorporate placing caches at the camp into this process.

 

I guess I feel that the individual scouts should be pushed to do their own hiding for this project. The scouts will learn more, and the diversity of caches might be even better than it would otherwise be. Harnessing the energy and curiousity of the scouts themselves for this would be great for them, and would allow us to teach them some of the finer points of this activity.

 

If all we accomplish out of this relationship is just a new place for caches and the possiblity of a place for an annual campout, I think we're missing a great opportunity to groom the furure of geocaching.

 

On another note: Regardless of the issues with the camp and the placement of caches there, I'd be willing to assist with developing standards for a geocaching merit badge and to act as a geocaching counselor if the BSA thinks such a merit badge would be a good idea.

 

Scott / Brokenwing

http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

[+martinp13]

Following along with Scott's "advisor" ideas, it might be good if we placed the first couple of caches up there (even if we subsequently turned them over to the Scouts), to give the Scouts something to find. Finding caches really is an important part of "geocacher maturation". I hate to have newbies (especially those meddling kids!) hiding caches without having looked for some first.

 

> Martin (Magellan 330)

Don't have time to program and record your shows while geocaching? Get a TiVo!

[+Web-ling]

I met on Sunday with the Program Director of the Longhorn Council. He is going to do what he can to get caching started at as many Longhorn Council properties as he can. The major sticking point is the access issue. Although many non-Scouting groups use the Scout camps on a regular basis, up until this point, it has always been at organized events. Pushing through a policy of allowing individual cachers access, even with some sort of reservation and access fee, is going to be a tough sell. My contact is going to do everything he can to push for as much access as he can get for us. However, it's not ultimately his decision, so this may take some time.

 

As far as the issue of a geocaching weekend, The current line of thought is to combine it with the three orienteering weekends that already exist throughout the year. There is also the possibility of an independent geocaching weekend as well, if there is enough interest.

 

I'll keep everyone informed as things develop.