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Max and 99

Coordinates not matching Google map

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When I'm at a place I want to waymark, I note the coordinates on my GPS or app. When I get home to write-up the waymark, I check the coords on Google Map and may adjust the last digits a little bit.

 

Today I was creating a waymark based on a previously submitted waymark, and noticed that the map showed the place in the wrong spot. I copied the coords from the waymark page into Google maps, and Google map showed them exactly correct. But the waymark map showed them in a different spot. Exact same coordinates.  How do I explain this to an officer who is reviewing my waymark? When I created the first waymark, the map showed the location correctly. Today it doesn't.

 

 

 

 

LFL 14075 map.png

LFL 14075 Google map.png

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Here's my opinion:

 

If you'll notice the waymark inset map comes from OpenStreetMap, a free open source mapping system of sort. It's nice and works fairly well, but I don't think they have the research, manpower and money behind it that Google is applying to mapping technology. 

 

Google publishes a mapping API for web developers who want to show maps on their web pages. Waymarking was using an embedded Google map on waymark pages in the past. It's not completely known to me what happened, but Google changed the mapping API in some way that required changes for the mapping clients (Waymarking.com). We all know how much attention Waymarking.com changes command. Maybe Google was charging a fee, maybe the interface changes were too much work for Waymarking.com development to do, so they switched to the OpenStreetMap usage. I think this is when the "Search from here" button broke, because they didn't address that part of the change in the initial changeover.

 

IMO, the quality of the Waymarking experience was immediately degraded after this changeover. I find myself using the Search for … Google Maps link on most waymarks, because the OpenStreetMap was inadequate. I check satellite views of waymark coordinates to see if the waymarked object is there, or I go to Google Street View to see if it's there. I don't think MapQuest has street view and I don't use Bing Maps as much, even though they have street view also. For me, I find Google Maps to be the most useful technology. I also find my GPS coordinates map pretty true on Google Maps.

Edited by DougK
Minor correct of an article, an->a

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I concur with DougK's analysis.  On my handheld GPS (not really made for road use, but it can follow routable maps), I downloaded an OpenStreetMap US map so I would have something routable on my handheld GPS.  Fine.  It seems to work okay.

However, it turns into a comedy routine when you're out in the country driving along.  Hmmm.  A point of interest for an Arby's restaurant in the middle of a slough!  And look, a gas station in a thick stand of pines.

The problem with public contributor based things is: the public!  You are going to have folks that are meticulous about their data contributions, some maybe even OCD folks (which is fine), but you're also going to get folks of the ilk "Whatever!" that can't be bothered to check the coordinates that they took, nor the coordinates that they entered when contributing.  Fine.  God made them that way.  But IMO they shouldn't be data contributors!!

If you want another example of the problem of public contributor, non-moderated data, think FindAGrave.  A lot of it is pretty good.  But a lot of it seems to be from the "Whatever!!" crowd.  (E.g. I can't tell you how many times that FAG has led me to a potential centenarian grave when it turns out the deceased lived from, say, 1884 to 1944, not 1994!!  Ugh.)

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1 hour ago, MountainWoods said:

I concur with DougK's analysis.  On my handheld GPS (not really made for road use, but it can follow routable maps), I downloaded an OpenStreetMap US map so I would have something routable on my handheld GPS.  Fine.  It seems to work okay.

However, it turns into a comedy routine when you're out in the country driving along.  Hmmm.  A point of interest for an Arby's restaurant in the middle of a slough!  And look, a gas station in a thick stand of pines.

The problem with public contributor based things is: the public!  You are going to have folks that are meticulous about their data contributions, some maybe even OCD folks (which is fine), but you're also going to get folks of the ilk "Whatever!" that can't be bothered to check the coordinates that they took, nor the coordinates that they entered when contributing.  Fine.  God made them that way.  But IMO they shouldn't be data contributors!!

If you want another example of the problem of public contributor, non-moderated data, think FindAGrave.  A lot of it is pretty good.  But a lot of it seems to be from the "Whatever!!" crowd.  (E.g. I can't tell you how many times that FAG has led me to a potential centenarian grave when it turns out the deceased lived from, say, 1884 to 1944, not 1994!!  Ugh.)

Well said, sir, well said!  

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Yes I also have found that Findagrave is, in some cases, is not reliable. Especially the maps, often I am out in the middle of nowhere or in a lake. I realize that some cemeteries are rural, however if the coordinates are reasonably close you can usually see it. 

 

I am a contributor, and think I am careful about my submissions and the information provided. Every once in awhile, I will get an edit request and sure enough I was not as careful as I thought. I have not figured out how to update the coordinates of an obviously misplaced cemetery. I have only created one cemetery, however I do try to fill requests and mostly post gravestones if a memorial is created or if not, I create it. 

 

I do not rely on lists of interments from other sources to create a memorial though I do think others do this.  My philosophy is no picture no memorial.

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We should change the title of this thread to FAG coordinates. It's a fun discussion.

99.9999% of my centenarians waymark are found by walking the cemetery. But I did once use FAG to try and locate the grave of a famous person. It took a long time since the person who posted had their directions confused. 

But you know where I find  lot of coordinate issues? Little Free Library site. We've learned to expand our search and/or use an address, and not rely on the posted coordinates. Different issue, though.    

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Walk the cemetery, we have spend countless hours doing the same thing. Keith has a knack for finding centenarians.

 

As far as Little Free Library, we do not research the site for potential  locations,  we just stumble across them. We have noticed a trend that sometimes we find what looks like LFL, however are filled with personal items, soap, shampoo, etc, canned food, toiletries and such. The items are free for the taking, and you are not required to leave anything in return. They are usually clean and well stocked. Generally speaking no books are in these units, however some have religious materials available. 

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6 hours ago, MountainWoods said:

The problem with public contributor based things is: the public!  You are going to have folks that are meticulous about their data contributions, some maybe even OCD folks (which is fine), but you're also going to get folks of the ilk "Whatever!" that can't be bothered to check the coordinates that they took, nor the coordinates that they entered when contributing.  Fine.  God made them that way.  But IMO they shouldn't be data contributors!!

 

Sounds like a good synopsis of Waymarking contributions .

FWIW, sometimes the OSM maps are more up-to-date than Google maps. Sometimes the community of individuals can respond quicker than the conglomerate. So it goes, too, with Waymarking.

Also will add that I've found many errors in Google maps too. My favourite was the mechanics shop labelled as a Police Station. It was close, but the police station was a could doors down the street. I used the "report and error" feature to get that fixed. Along with a couple other issues. I think Google maps are highly-crowed-sourced" as well.

Then there was the time I was driving through some city in Iowa, and decided it was time to find a Little Ceasers (my go-to place for fast and cheap pizza). Looked one up on the Garmin Nuvi, and we were off and soon out of town and in some backwood spot when the Garmin declared "arriving at Little Ceasers".

Edited by Bon Echo

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2 hours ago, BK-Hunters said:

Walk the cemetery, we have spend countless hours doing the same thing. Keith has a knack for finding centenarians.

 

As far as Little Free Library, we do not research the site for potential  locations,  we just stumble across them. We have noticed a trend that sometimes we find what looks like LFL, however are filled with personal items, soap, shampoo, etc, canned food, toiletries and such. The items are free for the taking, and you are not required to leave anything in return. They are usually clean and well stocked. Generally speaking no books are in these units, however some have religious materials available. 

 

My church just installed one of these, although it's usually empty since anything added is quickly acquired by, well, we don't know.

First time I saw one was in the spring, I was sure it was a LFL and walked over to get photos to waymark it. When I approached I noticed inside it had chips and salsa and probably other things too. What is said on the outside was Little Pantry Box. What I read, no doubt due to the inner contents, was Little Party Box. I had a chuckle at myself for that mix-up.

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1 hour ago, Bon Echo said:

 

My church just installed one of these, although it's usually empty since anything added is quickly acquired by, well, we don't know.

First time I saw one was in the spring, I was sure it was a LFL and walked over to get photos to waymark it. When I approached I noticed inside it had chips and salsa and probably other things too. What is said on the outside was Little Pantry Box. What I read, no doubt due to the inner contents, was Little Party Box. I had a chuckle at myself for that mix-up.

We have one next to a LFL as well, in addition to others in town.  My husband drove over to leave a book, and said the entire library was empty, as the free food pantry next door.

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On 10/8/2018 at 1:05 PM, Max and 99 said:

Today I was creating a waymark based on a previously submitted waymark, and noticed that the map showed the place in the wrong spot. I copied the coords from the waymark page into Google maps, and Google map showed them exactly correct. But the waymark map showed them in a different spot. Exact same coordinates.  How do I explain this to an officer who is reviewing my waymark? When I created the first waymark, the map showed the location correctly. Today it doesn't.

 

Back to the OP. Has no one here noticed that the two maps pictured in the OP indicate exactly the same location??? Look more closely at the two maps and then tell me that the stick pins are in different locations...

Keith

 

EDIT - HINT - don't be fooled by differences in the maps themselves.

Edited by BK-Hunters
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4 minutes ago, BK-Hunters said:

 

Back to the OP. Has no one here noticed that the two maps pictured in the OP indicate exactly the same location??? Look more closely at the two maps and then tell me that the stick pins are in different locations...

Keith

 

EDIT - HINT - don't be fooled by differences in the maps themselves.

The stick pins are in different locations.

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9 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

The stick pins are in different locations.

Look again - they're just east of 6th street on the street between Maple and Elm.

 

You're being fooled by that street's not being continuous on one of the maps.

Keith

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11 minutes ago, BK-Hunters said:

Look again - they're just east of 6th street on the street between Maple and Elm.

 

You're being fooled by that street's not being continuous on one of the maps.

Keith

Aha!

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28 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

Aha!

 

Well, at the very least you've given a forum to the folks to sound off on map makers, providers and contributors; comments, BTW, with which I don't disagree. Every square of every map seems to have a contributed object that is anywhere from a bit off to wildly mislocated. Irksome, but, what are ya gonna do?

Keith

EDIT: Actually, it could be said that Openstreetmaps is the more correct one here as that is an alley which still goes through, as it's drawn on that map.

Edited by BK-Hunters

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