+tiniundheinz Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Event Cache Logging Guidelines An event cache can be logged online if the cacher has attended the event. Event cache owners can request that cachers sign a logbook, but this is optional and cannot be a requirement for logging an event cache. Yesterday we attended a lovely event at a lake with the logbook in the middle of the lake - only accessible by boat (or swimming). We had such a good time and I later read that even one of the cachers with some health problems was able to sign the logbook at the beach!!! Almost 3 years ago we had a similar event at another lake (also D1/T5) - and the owner refused my friend to log the event as attended, since he stated that the coordinates were in the middle of the lake and not at the beach (where actually most of the socializing took place)! After I sent her the above mentioned quote, she logged again and he deleted the "attend log". In an email to her he explained that in 2015 the guidelines about logging events were diffent and did require a signature in the logbook. Is he correct or just being "important"? Quote Link to comment
+HHL Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 [...] Is he correct or just being "important"? The latter. Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Guidelines still the same, that person's fulla hot air, still optional if you want to sign the log. Event folks here finally gave up trying to make me sign (when I don't always log them online anyway). But, I'd question whether someone not at the actual event area (middle of the lake, where that log was...) really did attend an Event, if the directions state that's where it's being held. Quote Link to comment
+noncentric Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 The CO is wrong. The current guidelines show an update date of May 25, 2016. Using the Wayback Machine, I looked at the logging guidelines page at various points in the past, with update dates of: March 19, 2013 April 24, 2014 February 17, 2015 In all instances the signature in a logbook was optional for event caches. Your friend can appeal their log deletion to Groundspeak. Quote Link to comment
+Isonzo Karst Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 (edited) Signing a log at an event has been specified as optional in the guidelines since April 2009. Logging of All Physical Caches section, Earthcache Logging and Event logging sections were added . Prior to that, I don't believe there was any guideline reference to event logging at all. There hasn't been much change in those sections since April 2009. Edited July 10, 2017 by Isonzo Karst Quote Link to comment
+tiniundheinz Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share Posted July 11, 2017 Thank you so much, everybody! I will encourage my friend to write to Groundspeak! Even if it is only a game, it upsets me, when some people try to spoil it for others - and in this case even write insulting emails to prove their point (which, as it turns out, was not even a point!!) Wishing all of you happy caching and lots of fun events (with and without logbooks!!!) Quote Link to comment
+tiniundheinz Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share Posted July 11, 2017 Apparently all of our information was wrong..... ALL of it!!! My friend was at the D1/T5 event in 2014, but was denied to log the event as attended by the CO, since she had not been in the middle of the lake to signe the logbook. Since she was VERY new to geocaching then (and back then we were not too experienced eithere), we took it as a fact! In the meantime we have both gained some experience and this thread here seemed to prove that she should have been eligeable to mark this event as "attended". So she logged, was deleted and received the email from the CO explaining that the event took place in the middle of the lake (but that was merely where the logbook was) and she had not been there. Encouraged by this thread she logged again, stating that Groundspeak regulations allow "attended" logs even without a signature in the logbook. She messaged the CO that should he delete her log again, she would report him to Groundspeak. A few hours later, my friend received an email from Groundspeak (without having contacted them!). She gave me permission to post the content of the official Groundspeak email: Hello xxx, I am contacting you from Geocaching HQ in regards to your logging behavior for events on our site. If you attend an event be sure to sign the log book, and partake in the event. If you do not sign the log book or partake in the event then you may not log an attended log. Future logs may be deleted by the geocacher running the event. Best regards, Andrew Now what???? Quote Link to comment
+HHL Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 [...] Now what???? Andrew has to learn his lessons. He is wrong. For sure. Hans Quote Link to comment
+dprovan Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 It sounds like "the event" that she would be required to "partake in" involved getting to the island so she could sign the log even if she chose not to. What your friend engaged in in the parking lot was, apparently, an ancillary party which she mistook for the event and, hence, mistakenly claimed to have attended the event itself. While it's true that someone running an event might be considered a hard-nose for denying a newbie's not entirely correct claim of attendance, it's also true that you're friend's being strangely stubborn trying to force acceptance. From what you're saying, there's no question that the idea was to go to the island and that she didn't go to the island, so it seems kinda jerky to force the matter based on a technicality. Even if the technicality were valid -- and it's starting to look like it isn't -- why fight so hard to subvert the event owner's intention? If it were me, I just would have said, "Well, darn, I wish I'd known I needed to get to the island," not "I don't care what you wanted me to do, I demand you give me attendance award anyway!" By the way, I'm not sure you're interpreting the e-mail from GS correctly. You seem to think it's just another denial that your friend needs to get around. It reads to me as if GS is quite angry with your friend and she's on the verge of being suspended for repeatedly logging an event after the EO made a valid denial. My guess is that GS got involved because the EO complained, and GS considered the complaint valid and your friend in the wrong. It was 3 years ago. She should let it go. 1 Quote Link to comment
+tiniundheinz Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) Andrew has to learn his lessons. He is wrong. For sure. My guess is that GS got involved because the EO complained, and GS considered the complaint valid and your friend in the wrong. You suggest that since it was so long ago, she should just let it go, dprovan - she will definitely let it go, I am sure! It was actually me who encouraged her to log it, because I was there as well and observed the EO "granting" permission to log the event to the attendees and deny it to her! I think I was more upset than she was, because it was my friend's first ever geocaching event plus I found it more than embarrassing that the EO treated our guest with such arrogance (after all, she was on holiday from England and was attending this event in Germany....) Apart from my personal feelings, I tried to find out about the regulations - but apparently there does not seem to be one single truth.... And since we have since attended (and hosted) a few events, I just take it that it all depends on the EO - and draw my conclusions from there! Edited July 12, 2017 by tiniundheinz Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 It sounds like "the event" that she would be required to "partake in" involved getting to the island so she could sign the log even if she chose not to. What your friend engaged in in the parking lot was, apparently, an ancillary party which she mistook for the event and, hence, mistakenly claimed to have attended the event itself. That's how I see it too (in the 3rd post...). Attempting to log an event from three years ago may have been the issue with Groundspeak and the " logging behavior". - The EO may have been wrong, and was wrong on guidelines, but after three years, time to let it go... Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Apart from my personal feelings, I tried to find out about the regulations - but apparently there does not seem to be one single truth.... And since we have since attended (and hosted) a few events, I just take it that it all depends on the EO - and draw my conclusions from there! The guidelines are clear, you do not have to sign a logbook at an event. What isn't clear, is whether your friend really attended an event. - I don't see one at a beach area (when they're supposed to be on the lake) as attending either. What also isn't clear is what your friend actually said in logs to get Groundspeak involved. A confrontational tone was one evident from your post... Quote Link to comment
+tiniundheinz Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 - The EO may have been wrong, and was wrong on guidelines, but after three years, time to let it go... Please blame it all on me: I attended a very similar event last weekend (three years after the event in question) and had a totally different experience! And since the first event was still in our memory, we started this old discussion again! So it was me who did encourage my friend to log the event after this long time, because all this time I had the feeling that this was really injust not to let her log this event. My friend is quite easy about it, (although she still remembers the very unfriendly conversation with the EO back then), so she will let it go! I do see the point about the event "location" - but if we start to be so accurate, we could state that a ) the boat with the logbook drifted off so considerably, that those who made it to reach it, also were not at the indicated coordinates... (I know that I am being VERY correct now, but in this very case the "accuracy" versus the "fun factor" is actually the topic....) and b ) and this is a general and totally off topic question: the definition of a geocaching event is "Geocaching Event Caches are get-togethers listed on Geocaching.com. They are organized by local geocachers and geocaching organizations. They range from meet-and-greets, to education seminars, to environmental cleanups. Anyone is welcome to attend! Events are a great way to meet fellow geocachers, learn about geocaching, and get involved in the geocaching community. - how could an event location in the middle of the lake be accepted by a reviewer ? I swam halfway to the "event location" - ha, maybe I was even there, but the location (aka boat with logbook) had drifted, so I turned around and went back to the beach... My better half made it to the boat, but was so exhausted that he definitely did not feel like socializing with anybody.... Those of us who gathered on the beach (trailhead) did have a good time in the geocache sense - socializing and learning about geocaching! The intention of this thread was to clarify if you must sign a logbook at an event - the answer is clear: no, you must not! I also learnt (but question it) that the event location might make the difference and that in the end it is the event owner who makes the difference! Thank you all for sharing your points of view - quite diverse here as well! Geocaching for me (and my British friend as well) is a fun hobby, a game - so we all should not take it too seriously!!! Quote Link to comment
+dprovan Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Apart from my personal feelings, I tried to find out about the regulations - but apparently there does not seem to be one single truth.... Just to be clear, there doesn't appear to be any question about what the guidelines truly say, only about what the true nature of the event you and your friend thought you attended. I think I was more upset than she was, because it was my friend's first ever geocaching event plus I found it more than embarrassing that the EO treated our guest with such arrogance (after all, she was on holiday from England and was attending this event in Germany....) I have to admit, I've never understood the concept of forcing someone to do something they don't want to do just because you feel slighted. Me, if I thought the EO was mean to me, that would just make me lose all interest in logging that I attended his event. A happy side effect of not trying to "get even" is that you avoid unnecessary bad feelings in a case where it turns out the EO was in the right. Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 - The EO may have been wrong, and was wrong on guidelines, but after three years, time to let it go... Just so you're aware... Not sure how the error was made, but I said that, not dprovan. Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 ...and this is a general and totally off topic question: the definition of a geocaching event is "Geocaching Event Caches are get-togethers listed on Geocaching.com. They are organized by local geocachers and geocaching organizations. They range from meet-and-greets, to education seminars, to environmental cleanups. Anyone is welcome to attend! Events are a great way to meet fellow geocachers, learn about geocaching, and get involved in the geocaching community. - how could an event location in the middle of the lake be accepted by a reviewer ? I swam halfway to the "event location" - ha, maybe I was even there, but the location (aka boat with logbook) had drifted, so I turned around and went back to the beach... My better half made it to the boat, but was so exhausted that he definitely did not feel like socializing with anybody.... Those of us who gathered on the beach (trailhead) did have a good time in the geocache sense - socializing and learning about geocaching! We've attended events that were 2-3 mile hikes to the top of mountains. A Mod (who I believe is/was also a Reviewer) here has had a couple events on islands (middle of the lake). Quote Link to comment
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