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cezanne

"x caches in a day" challenge caches

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I'm neither a fan of powercaching nor of challenge caches where big numbers play a role. I'm curious however what is the largest number of caches required to be found within a single day to be allowed to log a challenge cache. Recently in my country a much debated "800 caches in a day" challenge has been published (only 2 Austrian cachers, one the cache owner, qualify - they have been in the US on the ET trail). Are there challenge caches that require more than 800 caches a day? How frequent are "x caches in a day" challenges for high values of x?

Links to such caches are appreciated.

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The standard in my area is usually 100. I don't know of any, off the top of my head, larger than that.

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The standard in my area is usually 100. I don't know of any, off the top of my head, larger than that.

 

I have seen one with 250 in Canada (and smaller ones of course).

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Is it even physically possible to find that many caches in a day? 24 hours is only 1440 minutes. Finding 800 caches in that time means one cache every 1.8 minutes.

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Is it even physically possible to find that many caches in a day? 24 hours is only 1440 minutes. Finding 800 caches in that time means one cache every 1.8 minutes.

 

Yes, it is possible.

 

One possible scenario is mentioned in the OP:

 

I'm neither a fan of powercaching nor of challenge caches where big numbers play a role. I'm curious however what is the largest number of caches required to be found within a single day to be allowed to log a challenge cache. Recently in my country a much debated "800 caches in a day" challenge has been published (only 2 Austrian cachers, one the cache owner, qualify - they have been in the US on the ET trail). Are there challenge caches that require more than 800 caches a day? How frequent are "x caches in a day" challenges for high values of x?

Links to such caches are appreciated.

 

 

B.

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Is it even physically possible to find that many caches in a day? 24 hours is only 1440 minutes. Finding 800 caches in that time means one cache every 1.8 minutes.

 

Yes, it is possible.

 

One possible scenario is mentioned in the OP:

 

I doubt however that it is possible if one insists that every team member signs the original log sheet (so no stamps for the group, no container swapping etc).

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A challenge to find a 1000 finds in a day is just another example of how our reviewers are inconsistent. Can it be done? Yes. But not by the population at large. But by the standard "I" am held to by our local reviewers, there's no way it would have been published had I submitted it.

 

The biggest glaring example in our area recently was the 35 COUNTRY challenge, when other more regionalized and smaller challenges were dismissed as not realistic.

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I doubt however that it is possible if one insists that every team member signs the original log sheet (so no stamps for the group, no container swapping etc).

Groundspeak allows team names to be used in place of individual signatures:

 

In the physical log, it is acceptable to use your user name, team name, stamp, or sticker which includes your user name.

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Yes, it is possible.

 

 

Ahh, I did some reading about powercaching and it makes a little more sense now. It doesn't sound like fun to me, but if people enjoy it, I'm happy for them. Less than 2 minutes per cache still sounds like an awfully short time, but with only 71 caches found, I'm still learning how to search effectively.

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I doubt however that it is possible if one insists that every team member signs the original log sheet (so no stamps for the group, no container swapping etc).

Groundspeak allows team names to be used in place of individual signatures:

 

In the physical log, it is acceptable to use your user name, team name, stamp, or sticker which includes your user name.

 

Yes, I'm aware of it, but it conflicts with my idea of logging which is shared by many others.

 

Actually, it is even worse than the above when it comes to Groundspeak as they also allow team names just created for that single day of caching without

listing all the team members.

 

When making the above statement my intent was not to discuss logging habits however. I just wanted to make the remark that I do not believe that 800 per day can be reached in the manner described above. That was meant as neutral statement.

 

What I wanted to learn from this thread is how far the x caches in a day challenge idea has already gone and I wonder if there is some limit. Would e.g. 1100 be published?

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Would e.g. 1100 be published?

Only the reviewers and Groundspeak can answer that.

 

Should 1100 be published? I don't think so. For that matter, I don't feel that the 1000 should have been published. Unless you go for 24 hours straight, it seems unlikely that anyone would be able to do it without resorting to, ahem, "alternative logging methods" (leapfrogging, three-cache-monte, etc.). In my opinion, challenges shouldn't be published that advocate, however implicitly, that such methods should be used. If it's logistically impossible for someone to log 1000/1100/whatever caches without using "alternative logging methods", then that's what it is: impossible.

 

That's just my personal opinion, though. YMMV and YLRMV (your logging rules may vary)

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Would e.g. 1100 be published?

Only the reviewers and Groundspeak can answer that.

 

Personally, I think it will vary from reviewer to reviewer what is conceived as upper limit.

Until recently I would not have believed that the 800 cache challenge would go through in my country and it's also something which is not seen in the same way by all local reviewers.

 

It's one question what can be achieved and another one what falls under appeals to a sufficient number of cachers. So if someone would manage to log 1200 caches (just an arbitrary number) within 24 hours without improper practices, would this then be the scale for everyone else? Some world records in sports survive for decades until they get broken.

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Is it even physically possible to find that many caches in a day? 24 hours is only 1440 minutes. Finding 800 caches in that time means one cache every 1.8 minutes.

 

Yes, it is possible.

 

One possible scenario is mentioned in the OP:

 

I doubt however that it is possible if one insists that every team member signs the original log sheet (so no stamps for the group, no container swapping etc).

 

I agree. It's not possible for one person to find this many in a day. It is not possible for a team to do it if each member signs the log.

 

People who have done the ET admit that they used various methods to speed things up. A very popular method is to take your own bag of film canisters and pick up the one in the bush, drop your already signed canister in the bush. Saves a LOT of time if you've already signed 1000 logsheets before starting the ET marathon. Or pick up the first canister, drop yours. Sign the logsheet in canister #1. Drop off the first canister at #2, pick up #2, sign the log in the car, drop #2 at #3 spot and pick up #3. Number 3 is missing? Drop your already signed canister. Rinse and repeat. Rinse and repeat...... Then get 2 vans, first team does all the odd number caches (1st, 3rd, 5th, etc.) , 2nd team does the even numbered caches (2nd, 4th, 6th, etc.).

 

Or do it alone. Drive down the ET highway and claim all caches as found....much much faster that way. The cache owner is never going to check. Maybe take a photo of yourself at cache #1 and cache #1000, just to prove you were at least on that part of the highway.

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Would e.g. 1100 be published?

Only the reviewers and Groundspeak can answer that.

 

Should 1100 be published? I don't think so. For that matter, I don't feel that the 1000 should have been published. Unless you go for 24 hours straight, it seems unlikely that anyone would be able to do it without resorting to, ahem, "alternative logging methods" (leapfrogging, three-cache-monte, etc.). In my opinion, challenges shouldn't be published that advocate, however implicitly, that such methods should be used. If it's logistically impossible for someone to log 1000/1100/whatever caches without using "alternative logging methods", then that's what it is: impossible.

 

That's just my personal opinion, though. YMMV and YLRMV (your logging rules may vary)

 

I completely agree.

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I doubt however that it is possible if one insists that every team member signs the original log sheet (so no stamps for the group, no container swapping etc).

Groundspeak allows team names to be used in place of individual signatures:

 

In the physical log, it is acceptable to use your user name, team name, stamp, or sticker which includes your user name.

Yes, I'm aware of it, but it conflicts with my idea of logging which is shared by many others.

You insist that every team member sign the original log sheet? And many others do as well? I find that odd. I know of nobody who insists on such behavior, but I suppose a few might have since Groundspeak felt the need to explicitly state that team names are acceptable.

 

When making the above statement my intent was not to discuss logging habits however. I just wanted to make the remark that I do not believe that 800 per day can be reached in the manner described above.

So what if people cannot achieve that rate using your very strict standards? I doubt many people could find 80 caches per day while holding their breath. But I have no doubt that some people are capable of finding 800+ caches in a single day in a way that meets Groundspeak's logging standards.

 

Reviewers who publish challenge caches don't use your standards. They use Groundspeak's.

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Re-hashing of old stuff is seriously de-railing this thread.

 

Are there challenge caches that require more than 800 caches a day?

 

How frequent are "x caches in a day" challenges for high values of x?

 

I don't think it's very common in my area/province. I've seen challenges that focus more on finding caches in a widespread area.

 

I know I've seen challenges that have something to do with finding 100 caches, but I can't remember if that was in one day or not.

 

I would think that the Guidelines for Challenges would make it difficult to publish one that requires finding such a high number of caches in one day.

 

Challenge cache owners must demonstrate that there are sufficient available geocaches to meet the challenge at the time of publication. Reviewers may ask the geocache owner to demonstrate that they have previously met the challenge and/or that a substantial number of other geocachers would be able to do so.

 

A challenge geocache needs to appeal to, and be attainable by, a reasonable number of geocachers. A challenge geocache may not specifically exclude any segment of geocachers.

 

If a geocacher is required to alter their caching style or habits, such as avoiding a particular geocache type to attain a specific percentage or average, the geocache will not be published.

 

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=206

 

Mind you, GS does not define "a reasonable number of geocachers" or even a "substantial" number of cachers.

 

It would seem that, for a lot of us, to meet those challenge requirements would involve altering our caching style or habits.

 

 

B.

Edited by Pup Patrol

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You insist that every team member sign the original log sheet? And many others do as well? I find that odd. I know of nobody who insists on such behavior, but I suppose a few might have since Groundspeak felt the need to explicitly state that team names are acceptable.

 

It did not mean that I have an issue if others apply different logging habits. The insist statement did not mean that I insist that everyone signs the original log sheet, but that this is the only way of logging where it makes sense for me to talk about that a certain cacher managed to find and log x caches per day.

 

The person who asked how 800 caches per day could be possible for sure had no idea before this thread of how such power days work. For many years I would not have believed that powercaching went that far.

 

So what if people cannot achieve that rate using your very strict standards? I doubt many people could find 80 caches per day while holding their breath. But I have no doubt that some people are capable of finding 800+ caches in a single day in a way that meets Groundspeak's logging standards.

 

I did not say that I have doubts that some people can find 800+ caches in a single day while meetings Groundspeak's logging standards.

 

My comment was just stressing the scenario required for making such high number days possible.

 

For my personal approach to caching it plays no role whatsoever whether there is a 100 caches a day challenge, a 300, 500, 800 or 1000. I will never reach any of those numbers, have no interest into doing so and can easily ignore such challenge caches. I just wonder whether there is an upper bound and if so where it is located.

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If a geocacher is required to alter their caching style or habits, such as avoiding a particular geocache type to attain a specific percentage or average, the geocache will not be published.

 

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=206

 

...

 

It would seem that, for a lot of us, to meet those challenge requirements would involve altering our caching style or habits.

I've never heard of a reviewer not publishing a challenge because it required a geocacher to alter their caching style/habits, except for those challenges that require specific percentages/averages.

 

Many, many published caches require an alteration of style. Few people, for example, would find 7 different types of caches in a day without altering their normal caching behavior. Or 7 different sizes. Or complete their Fizzy grids, fulfill Jasmer, find caches in all of a state's counties, go on a 365-day streak, etc.

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I just wonder whether there is an upper bound and if so where it is located.

I seriously doubt if there is some specified upper bound. The number of people who can find a specific number of caches in a day will vary by region. And the number of people who can attain such numbers today in a particular region might well change tomorrow if, say, a new power trail is published nearby.

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It would seem that, for a lot of us, to meet those challenge requirements would involve altering our caching style or habits.

 

I have never understood the enforcement of that particular guideline. Throwing 1000 film cans out the window of my car in a 24 hour stretch would be a much bigger alteration to my caching style/habits than finding more puzzles to get up to a certain ratio or filling in a D/T grid or whatever.

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Recently in my country a much debated "800 caches in a day" challenge has been published (only 2 Austrian cachers, one the cache owner, qualify - they have been in the US on the ET trail).

Let me guess, the cache is unpublished by now and one of the two Austrian cachers you mentioned is the reviewer who published it. Am I wrong?

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[and one of the two Austrian cachers you mentioned is the reviewer who published it. Am I wrong?

 

Off topic: You are wrong - look at the find count of the reviewer for falsification. Regarding the rest project-gc.com might help.

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[and one of the two Austrian cachers you mentioned is the reviewer who published it. Am I wrong?

 

Off topic: You are wrong - look at the find count of the reviewer for falsification. Regarding the rest project-gc.com might help.

Thanks, I'm glad to hear that and sorry for being off topic.

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I'm curious however what is the largest number of caches required to be found within a single day to be allowed to log a challenge cache.

I don't think there is a required max. If you do over a 1000 or 1500 without cheating, you may need to go to the hospital for exhaustion, but don't think there is a required max limit.

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My stats says I did 877 in a day but my caching buddy thinks I logged some on the wrong date and it should have been over 900. I'm fine with 877. I don't want to have to go back and see which I logged wrong.

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I'm curious however what is the largest number of caches required to be found within a single day to be allowed to log a challenge cache.

I don't think there is a required max. If you do over a 1000 or 1500 without cheating, you may need to go to the hospital for exhaustion, but don't think there is a required max limit.

Up until 1954, everyone thought that breaking the 4 minute mile was impossible. It wouldn't surprise me if someone broke all expectations and finished logging some ridiculous number of caches in a day from their hospital bed.

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I'm curious however what is the largest number of caches required to be found within a single day to be allowed to log a challenge cache.

I don't think there is a required max. If you do over a 1000 or 1500 without cheating, you may need to go to the hospital for exhaustion, but don't think there is a required max limit.

 

I did not mean to ask what could be the maximum number of caches loggable within a day without cheating, but rather what would be allowed to be a required number asked for in a challenge cache for a legitimate found it log of the challenge cache.

 

There is difference between what a single person or very few could achieve and what a greater number of people can achieve.

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The Austrian "800 caches a day" challenge is now retracted by "Geocaching HQ Admin".

I wonder if we will ever get more details.

 

According to the lengthy (and may I say typical :rolleyes: ) reviewer note by witch the reviewer - who also published the cache - locked the cache to prevent further discussions and NAs, he wanted to "carry it personally to Seattle" to get their opinion.

 

Thanks for the OP question. I wondered about the same when this cache appeared in my vicinity.

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I would say that certain challenges as best not published for the behavior that they promote, and large Finds In One Day challenges are a among those. I would cap out at 100.

 

You might physically and honestly do more but it usually stretches good geocaching behavior and logging practices if you get many more. In general, any Finds in a Day challenge seems to encourage questionable logging practices more so than cumulative challenges.

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The Austrian "800 caches a day" challenge is now retracted by "Geocaching HQ Admin".

I wonder if we will ever get more details.

 

Interesting. In my area there has been a somewhat escalation of these sorts of Challenges. I've seen double Jasmer's/Fizzy's/etc. and the like. Perhaps it's a "chicken and the egg" type of problem? Perhaps you'll see a proliferation of PT's in your area so that the CO can return with proof that it is possible in your area :laughing: The OP might have been better off leaving it be, rather than drawing attention to it. Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease ;)

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This topic went a bit sideways with discussion of this part of the challenge cache article, "If a geocacher is required to alter their caching style or habits, such as avoiding a particular geocache type to attain a specific percentage or average, the geocache will not be published."

 

A challenge cache cannot be designed such that finding caches outside the challenge parameters damages your progress towards the challenge.

Example: a challenge to find only Multis for one month. You can't attend an event or any find any other cache types for the entire month.

Find X number of Multis in a month is fine, even though it might require unusual effort on your part (altering your habits - but that's the challenge); only Multis is not.

Ratio challenges (example: average T rating of your finds greater than or = 2) can force cachers to stop logging caches at 1.5 or below. They're no longer published.

 

To the OP, there are at least a couple of 1000 in a day challenges in the US. I wouldn't expect to see higher numbers any time soon, but who knows how the ease of finding more caches faster might develop in the future.

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To the OP, there are at least a couple of 1000 in a day challenges in the US. I wouldn't expect to see higher numbers any time soon, but who knows how the ease of finding more caches faster might develop in the future.

 

It is not physically possible to legitimately find more than at most 500 caches in a day? Given just 2 minute per find (no throwdowns, no leap frogging, no 3 cache monte, etc and actually signing the log individually), it's not possible.

 

I would hope that challenge caches that require people to use throwdowns/leapfrogging/3-cache-monte methods, couldn't be posted.

 

Interesting that in order to claim a find on a 1000 challenge cache, that you can't claim it unless you fake find 1000 other caches.

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It is not physically possible to legitimately find more than at most 500 caches in a day? Given just 2 minute per find (no throwdowns, no leap frogging, no 3 cache monte, etc and actually signing the log individually), it's not possible.

Actually, at a rate of 2 minutes per find, it's possible to find 720 caches in a day.

 

And some power trails are set up in such a way that you can find caches in less than 2 minutes each while not leapfrogging or throwing down or doing the 3-cache monte.

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To the OP, there are at least a couple of 1000 in a day challenges in the US. I wouldn't expect to see higher numbers any time soon, but who knows how the ease of finding more caches faster might develop in the future.

 

It is not physically possible to legitimately find more than at most 500 caches in a day? Given just 2 minute per find (no throwdowns, no leap frogging, no 3 cache monte, etc and actually signing the log individually), it's not possible.

 

I would hope that challenge caches that require people to use throwdowns/leapfrogging/3-cache-monte methods, couldn't be posted.

 

Interesting that in order to claim a find on a 1000 challenge cache, that you can't claim it unless you fake find 1000 other caches.

 

Sorry but you're wrong,

 

I found over 500 caches on Route 66 no leap frogging, monte or anything else. We started a 6 am, I was with my daughter and son, daughter drove, son ran to the cache and had it open by the time I got there, I signed, he put it back and on to the next. We averaged 75/hour till lunch at amboy crater then we got lethargic and really slowed down so we stopped at just over 500 and drove to Needles. I then popped into Arizona a found a few more.

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It may be "possible" but not without "team" work to find caches continuously without a break for 16+ hours. It's not possible for one individual driving/biking/walking himself to do. I think that one-person caching should be the litmus test. One person finding a cache and signing the log (no throwdowns, no 3-cache-monte). Anything else stretches the definition of a find. It's fine if you want to personally call it a find, that's your thing, but for challenge caches it shouldn't be encouraged.

 

Teamwork opens up all kinds of methods and arguments about what a legitimate find is. Even with regards to teamwork I have yet to see definitive proof (uncut video) that a 3-person team (one driving, 2 retrieving) can keep up a 2-minute pace for one hour.

 

I don't think challenge caches should encourage people to stretch the basic legitimate definition of a find. But I'm one lone voice in the .1% minority. So I'm certain that 500-or-greater-cache challenges will not go away and will instead increase.

 

My argument is that some challenge caches do require a cacher to stretch the definition of a find. Many challenge caches encourage (perhaps inadvertently) people to stretch their definition of a find by requiring high numbers of cache types in one day, which are really only do-able by "teamwork" where most of the qualifiers didn't actually do what it takes to complete a puzzle/mystery, multi, Wherigo or LBH, retrieve that cache, and sign the log, some in the team never even see the cache. Things they may not do normally, it weren't for the desire to qualify for a challenge cache.

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It may be "possible" but not without "team" work to find caches continuously without a break for 16+ hours. It's not possible for one individual driving/biking/walking himself to do. I think that one-person caching should be the litmus test. One person finding a cache and signing the log (no throwdowns, no 3-cache-monte). Anything else stretches the definition of a find. It's fine if you want to personally call it a find, that's your thing, but for challenge caches it shouldn't be encouraged.

 

Teamwork opens up all kinds of methods and arguments about what a legitimate find is. Even with regards to teamwork I have yet to see definitive proof (uncut video) that a 3-person team (one driving, 2 retrieving) can keep up a 2-minute pace for one hour.

 

I don't think challenge caches should encourage people to stretch the basic legitimate definition of a find. But I'm one lone voice in the .1% minority. So I'm certain that 500-or-greater-cache challenges will not go away and will instead increase.

 

My argument is that some challenge caches do require a cacher to stretch the definition of a find. Many challenge caches encourage (perhaps inadvertently) people to stretch their definition of a find by requiring high numbers of cache types in one day, which are really only do-able by "teamwork" where most of the qualifiers didn't actually do what it takes to complete a puzzle/mystery, multi, Wherigo or LBH, retrieve that cache, and sign the log, some in the team never even see the cache. Things they may not do normally, it weren't for the desire to qualify for a challenge cache.

 

Doesn't matter what you believe, fact is I found over 500 caches in about 6 hours signing every log myself at GZ, no stamps, no throw downs and no moving the caches, even by Cezanne's standards, these would all be finds.

 

And the best part, I had an awesome time with my kids.

Edited by Roman!

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It seems weird to have these challenges published in areas where this drive-by geocaching stuff isn't common or even possible.

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It seems weird to have these challenges published in areas where this drive-by geocaching stuff isn't common or even possible.

 

why, because it's challenging?

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It seems weird to have these challenges published in areas where this drive-by geocaching stuff isn't common or even possible.

 

why, because it's challenging?

 

If the actual challenge is finding the time and airfare to go to some desert in the USA, I don't really see the utility of placing such a cache in Austria. I just think it's weird.

 

I mean, I guess you can just throw film cans out the window of a car anywhere, really, but I'd expect that in most places people would delete logs over that so it would, in a sense, be a challenge in that regard. I don't know if circumventing log deletion on 500 caches is an acceptable idea for a challenge cache though.

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It seems weird to have these challenges published in areas where this drive-by geocaching stuff isn't common or even possible.

 

why, because it's challenging?

 

If the actual challenge is finding the time and airfare to go to some desert in the USA, I don't really see the utility of placing such a cache in Austria. I just think it's weird.

 

 

Yes, that would be a challenge, a fair bit easier than my unfound challenge cache though.

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It may be "possible" but not without "team" work to find caches continuously without a break for 16+ hours. It's not possible for one individual driving/biking/walking himself to do. I think that one-person caching should be the litmus test. One person finding a cache and signing the log (no throwdowns, no 3-cache-monte). Anything else stretches the definition of a find. It's fine if you want to personally call it a find, that's your thing, but for challenge caches it shouldn't be encouraged.

 

Teamwork opens up all kinds of methods and arguments about what a legitimate find is. Even with regards to teamwork I have yet to see definitive proof (uncut video) that a 3-person team (one driving, 2 retrieving) can keep up a 2-minute pace for one hour.

 

I don't think challenge caches should encourage people to stretch the basic legitimate definition of a find. But I'm one lone voice in the .1% minority. So I'm certain that 500-or-greater-cache challenges will not go away and will instead increase.

 

My argument is that some challenge caches do require a cacher to stretch the definition of a find. Many challenge caches encourage (perhaps inadvertently) people to stretch their definition of a find by requiring high numbers of cache types in one day, which are really only do-able by "teamwork" where most of the qualifiers didn't actually do what it takes to complete a puzzle/mystery, multi, Wherigo or LBH, retrieve that cache, and sign the log, some in the team never even see the cache. Things they may not do normally, it weren't for the desire to qualify for a challenge cache.

 

Doesn't matter what you believe, fact is I found over 500 caches in about 6 hours signing every log myself at GZ, no stamps, no throw downs and no moving the caches, even by Cezanne's standards, these would all be finds.

 

And the best part, I had an awesome time with my kids.

 

It does matter, if you're asking me to believe it. Personally, I don't care that you logged 500 caches in a day, except when it comes to insisting that I believe it without proof. Or that others can claim to find as many without proof. And that some can post challenge caches to encourage others to claim they found 500+ (legitimate) finds in a day.

My guess is that if what you say is true, then you would be one of the very few who jumped out of the car, found the cache (every one being there, no throw downs, logging a DNF if the cache wasn't there), opened the cache, pulled out the logsheet, signed the sheet with your own hand, put the sheet and cap back on, put the cache back and jumped back into the car every 2 minutes for 16+ hours straight. But you as an individual did not do this. Even allowing teamwork where your partner would pick up the cache, open the cache, pull the logsheet out and hand it to you to sign, return it to the hiding spot it seems impossible to maintain this pace for 500+ caches in one day. For 2 people to stop every 161m and simply get out of the car and get back in as fast as they can 62 times every kilometer seems extraordinary and do this for 16 hours....wow.

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It may be "possible" but not without "team" work to find caches continuously without a break for 16+ hours. It's not possible for one individual driving/biking/walking himself to do. I think that one-person caching should be the litmus test. One person finding a cache and signing the log (no throwdowns, no 3-cache-monte). Anything else stretches the definition of a find. It's fine if you want to personally call it a find, that's your thing, but for challenge caches it shouldn't be encouraged.
IIRC, LiL Devil found more than 500 caches solo on the ET Highway. It may have been someone else, but I know they found more than 500 caches solo, driving a motorcycle. No throwdowns, no three cache monte, no leapfrogging or other teamwork, all caches signed personally.

 

And before the advent of numbers run trails like the ET Highway, there were numbers runs by teams that held themselves to similar standards that reached more than 200, more than 300, and more than 400 finds. Yes, they were teams, but I'm not sure that challenges that require teamwork violate the letter or the spirit of Groundspeak's guidelines for challenge caches.

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It seems weird to have these challenges published in areas where this drive-by geocaching stuff isn't common or even possible.

 

why, because it's challenging?

 

If the actual challenge is finding the time and airfare to go to some desert in the USA, I don't really see the utility of placing such a cache in Austria. I just think it's weird.

 

I mean, I guess you can just throw film cans out the window of a car anywhere, really, but I'd expect that in most places people would delete logs over that so it would, in a sense, be a challenge in that regard. I don't know if circumventing log deletion on 500 caches is an acceptable idea for a challenge cache though.

 

I agree. What's the point, unless it's to encourage someone to throw film cans out the window of a car in Austria every 161 meters in order to have something local to qualify for the 800-caches-a-day Austrian challenge cache.

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It may be "possible" but not without "team" work to find caches continuously without a break for 16+ hours. It's not possible for one individual driving/biking/walking himself to do. I think that one-person caching should be the litmus test. One person finding a cache and signing the log (no throwdowns, no 3-cache-monte). Anything else stretches the definition of a find. It's fine if you want to personally call it a find, that's your thing, but for challenge caches it shouldn't be encouraged.

 

Teamwork opens up all kinds of methods and arguments about what a legitimate find is. Even with regards to teamwork I have yet to see definitive proof (uncut video) that a 3-person team (one driving, 2 retrieving) can keep up a 2-minute pace for one hour.

 

I don't think challenge caches should encourage people to stretch the basic legitimate definition of a find. But I'm one lone voice in the .1% minority. So I'm certain that 500-or-greater-cache challenges will not go away and will instead increase.

 

My argument is that some challenge caches do require a cacher to stretch the definition of a find. Many challenge caches encourage (perhaps inadvertently) people to stretch their definition of a find by requiring high numbers of cache types in one day, which are really only do-able by "teamwork" where most of the qualifiers didn't actually do what it takes to complete a puzzle/mystery, multi, Wherigo or LBH, retrieve that cache, and sign the log, some in the team never even see the cache. Things they may not do normally, it weren't for the desire to qualify for a challenge cache.

 

Doesn't matter what you believe, fact is I found over 500 caches in about 6 hours signing every log myself at GZ, no stamps, no throw downs and no moving the caches, even by Cezanne's standards, these would all be finds.

 

And the best part, I had an awesome time with my kids.

 

It does matter, if you're asking me to believe it. Personally, I don't care that you logged 500 caches in a day, except when it comes to insisting that I believe it without proof. Or that others can claim to find as many without proof. And that some can post challenge caches to encourage others to claim they found 500+ (legitimate) finds in a day.

My guess is that if what you say is true, then you would be one of the very few who jumped out of the car, found the cache (every one being there, no throw downs, logging a DNF if the cache wasn't there), opened the cache, pulled out the logsheet, signed the sheet with your own hand, put the sheet and cap back on, put the cache back and jumped back into the car every 2 minutes for 16+ hours straight. But you as an individual did not do this. Even allowing teamwork where your partner would pick up the cache, open the cache, pull the logsheet out and hand it to you to sign, return it to the hiding spot it seems impossible to maintain this pace for 500+ caches in one day. For 2 people to stop every 161m and simply get out of the car and get back in as fast as they can 62 times every kilometer seems extraordinary and do this for 16 hours....wow.

 

Firstly it was 6 hours, not 16, secondly, how does it matter who opened the container?

 

Regardless, you have another example above, I know some one that did the ET highway solo and found over 700 in a day and I trust him.

 

On a recent drive to Vegas with my daughter we drove the ET higway and I found 200 caches in about 3 hours grabbing each one myself, opening each container, signing each log, closing each container and replacing it. Would have done more but promised my daughter I wouldn't.

 

It was actually easy as we were going in reverse order and for at least half the caches I could reach them from my car.

 

just because you think you can't do something doesn't mean no one can't.

Edited by Roman!

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just because you think you can't do something doesn't mean no one can't.

 

Conversely, just because you claim you did something doesn't mean you did.

 

The real point being that as these challenges get more and more extreme, the more lax any sort of verification must be. So what is the merit, really?

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just because you think you can't do something doesn't mean no one can't.

 

Conversely, just because you claim you did something doesn't mean you did.

 

The real point being that as these challenges get more and more extreme, the more lax any sort of verification must be. So what is the merit, really?

 

Pretty much any challenge can be cheated on, finding 500, 800, 1000 caches in one day is a challenge but can and has been done fairly adhering to Groundspeaks definition of a find.

 

I see too many cachers get upset over challenges they don't pre-qualify for, what's the fun in that?

Edited by Roman!

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just because you think you can't do something doesn't mean no one can't.

 

Conversely, just because you claim you did something doesn't mean you did.

 

The real point being that as these challenges get more and more extreme, the more lax any sort of verification must be. So what is the merit, really?

 

Ah, but then you are calling me a liar.

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just because you think you can't do something doesn't mean no one can't.

 

Conversely, just because you claim you did something doesn't mean you did.

 

The real point being that as these challenges get more and more extreme, the more lax any sort of verification must be. So what is the merit, really?

 

Pretty much any challenge can be cheated on, finding 500, 800, 1000 caches in one day is a challenge but can and has been done fairly adhering to Groundspeaks definition of a find.

 

I see too many cachers get upset over challenges they don't pre-qualify for, what's the fun in that?

 

I don't really see the point in being upset at not qualifying for a challenge, nor do I see the point in lying in order to find one, nor do I see the merit in placing most of them to begin with. It's all just kind of mystifying to me, but that is true of several aspects of geocaching.

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