Definition of LEAPFROGGING

[+Ma & Pa]

Here is our question

 

I have seen comments about cachers leapfrogging when doing a series in a group.

 

How exactly is this done ?

 

Is there more than one method and if so, is one method more acceptable than another?

 

PAul

 

Here is the definition that everyone seems to agree with

 

Leapfrogging is when a team splits up into two groups. One group finds every second cache and signs on behalf of everyone. The other group finds the ones skipped by the first group and signs on behalf of everyone. Please don't do it. Unless you actually find a specific cache yourself, your name should not be on the log.

 

Mr. Yuck figured out why we were asking the question and gave us a big compliment. Thank You.

 

I think I can say with a great deal of confidence, they're not going to do it. I'll bet they're just wondering if something they've observed falls under the definition. The one of which I'm quoting here, I agree with.

 

MA & I do caching series together and may often go with a friend or two ( but not with a large group). We do not separate and look for different caches at the same time, but we may not all walk at the same speed and may not all arrive at the next cache at the same time.

[+mountainman38]

Leapfrogging is when a team splits up into two groups. One group finds every second cache and signs on behalf of everyone. The other group finds the ones skipped by the first group and signs on behalf of everyone. Please don't do it. Unless you actually find a specific cache yourself, your name should not be on the log.

 

It seems that if ones satisfaction in life is found in claiming thousands of meaningless caches, no matter how they were claimed, there are other larger issues to deal with.

 

Then again, I lost all interest in just signing my name to another boring log book after about 100 finds, so this may just be me.

[+mountainman38]

<SNIP> It's actually a lot different, there are very few people on this planet that have touched the log book of every cache they logged as found.

 

Heh?! I'm that unusual? Kinda sad.

[+_Pebcak_]

No, probably group caching. I'll bet I haven't touched a couple hundred log books. You know, sign me in please.

Haha! I go Geocaching with my husband most of the time. We both look together and sometimes he finds the actual hide, and sometimes I do. I always sign the log for both of us (unless, of course, he's not with me while I'm Geocaching) b/c my handwriting is much neater. I'm also the one that carries the pouch of swag so I'm the one stuffing the cache with presents I think if you're in a group together and you're all at ground zero, that's okay. That's sort of what happens at geocaching parties, too. We all work together, but one person climbs the tree, etc and writes us all down.

[Mr.Yuck]

No, probably group caching. I'll bet I haven't touched a couple hundred log books. You know, sign me in please.

Haha! I go Geocaching with my husband most of the time. We both look together and sometimes he finds the actual hide, and sometimes I do. I always sign the log for both of us (unless, of course, he's not with me while I'm Geocaching) b/c my handwriting is much neater. I'm also the one that carries the pouch of swag so I'm the one stuffing the cache with presents I think if you're in a group together and you're all at ground zero, that's okay. That's sort of what happens at geocaching parties, too. We all work together, but one person climbs the tree, etc and writes us all down.

 

Actually, your tree climbing example will have some dissenters here. And even with some tree climbing cache owners.

[+Traditional Bill]

No, probably group caching. I'll bet I haven't touched a couple hundred log books. You know, sign me in please.

Haha! I go Geocaching with my husband most of the time. We both look together and sometimes he finds the actual hide, and sometimes I do. I always sign the log for both of us (unless, of course, he's not with me while I'm Geocaching) b/c my handwriting is much neater. I'm also the one that carries the pouch of swag so I'm the one stuffing the cache with presents I think if you're in a group together and you're all at ground zero, that's okay. That's sort of what happens at geocaching parties, too. We all work together, but one person climbs the tree, etc and writes us all down.

 

Actually, your tree climbing example will have some dissenters here. And even with some tree climbing cache owners.

 

No dissenting here. I live by the "names in the log, claim a find" mantra (the exception of challenge caches) and I'm big into climbing and own quite a few "climb to" hides. There's nothing wrong with your buddy climbing a tree and bringing the log down. There's something very wrong with signing somebody in if they're sitting on their couch at home, but once again....names on the log, claim find.

 

I always motivate others to climb, though.....I even give free lessons and have inspired some of the locals to buy their own gear....but some just won't do it for one reason or another and there's no problem with that.

 

I will say this though...I have more respect for the cacher at the base of the tree then the cacher that leapfrogged. At least the cacher at the bottom of the tree has made the effort to arrive at GZ and sign in, despite not making the climb.

[Mr.Yuck]

No, probably group caching. I'll bet I haven't touched a couple hundred log books. You know, sign me in please.

Haha! I go Geocaching with my husband most of the time. We both look together and sometimes he finds the actual hide, and sometimes I do. I always sign the log for both of us (unless, of course, he's not with me while I'm Geocaching) b/c my handwriting is much neater. I'm also the one that carries the pouch of swag so I'm the one stuffing the cache with presents I think if you're in a group together and you're all at ground zero, that's okay. That's sort of what happens at geocaching parties, too. We all work together, but one person climbs the tree, etc and writes us all down.

 

Actually, your tree climbing example will have some dissenters here. And even with some tree climbing cache owners.

 

No dissenting here. I live by the "names in the log, claim a find" mantra (the exception of challenge caches) and I'm big into climbing and own quite a few "climb to" hides. There's nothing wrong with your buddy climbing a tree and bringing the log down. There's something very wrong with signing somebody in if they're sitting on their couch at home, but once again....names on the log, claim find.

 

I always motivate others to climb, though.....I even give free lessons and have inspired some of the locals to buy their own gear....but some just won't do it for one reason or another and there's no problem with that.

 

I will say this though...I have more respect for the cacher at the base of the tree then the cacher that leapfrogged. At least the cacher at the bottom of the tree has made the effort to arrive at GZ and sign in, despite not making the climb.

 

You too will have dissenters, Bill. I don't know the percentages of such people out there, but I've been around here long enough to know there are plenty of them. I think I might have done this twice, but there were both very short climbs that anyone could have made. Like 10 feet up or so.

[+cerberus1]

No, probably group caching. I'll bet I haven't touched a couple hundred log books. You know, sign me in please.

Haha! I go Geocaching with my husband most of the time. We both look together and sometimes he finds the actual hide, and sometimes I do. I always sign the log for both of us (unless, of course, he's not with me while I'm Geocaching) b/c my handwriting is much neater. I'm also the one that carries the pouch of swag so I'm the one stuffing the cache with presents I think if you're in a group together and you're all at ground zero, that's okay. That's sort of what happens at geocaching parties, too. We all work together, but one person climbs the tree, etc and writes us all down.

 

Actually, your tree climbing example will have some dissenters here. And even with some tree climbing cache owners.

 

No dissenting here. I live by the "names in the log, claim a find" mantra (the exception of challenge caches) and I'm big into climbing and own quite a few "climb to" hides. There's nothing wrong with your buddy climbing a tree and bringing the log down. There's something very wrong with signing somebody in if they're sitting on their couch at home, but once again....names on the log, claim find.

 

I always motivate others to climb, though.....I even give free lessons and have inspired some of the locals to buy their own gear....but some just won't do it for one reason or another and there's no problem with that.

 

I will say this though...I have more respect for the cacher at the base of the tree then the cacher that leapfrogged. At least the cacher at the bottom of the tree has made the effort to arrive at GZ and sign in, despite not making the climb.

 

You too will have dissenters, Bill. I don't know the percentages of such people out there, but I've been around here long enough to know there are plenty of them. I think I might have done this twice, but there were both very short climbs that anyone could have made. Like 10 feet up or so.

We got quite a few into using rope by letting them tag along first.

They're team members for the day, taking pics and helping with gear.

- Frees me up a bit and worth every smiley.

[+_Pebcak_]

We got quite a few into using rope by letting them tag along first.

I may need to look into this. B/c I'm not the most, uh, graceful of people. It's quite possible I will fall out of a tree, even if it's only 10 feet up....It's happened before...(Though not while caching, lol!!)

[+Traditional Bill]

No, probably group caching. I'll bet I haven't touched a couple hundred log books. You know, sign me in please.

Haha! I go Geocaching with my husband most of the time. We both look together and sometimes he finds the actual hide, and sometimes I do. I always sign the log for both of us (unless, of course, he's not with me while I'm Geocaching) b/c my handwriting is much neater. I'm also the one that carries the pouch of swag so I'm the one stuffing the cache with presents I think if you're in a group together and you're all at ground zero, that's okay. That's sort of what happens at geocaching parties, too. We all work together, but one person climbs the tree, etc and writes us all down.

 

Actually, your tree climbing example will have some dissenters here. And even with some tree climbing cache owners.

 

No dissenting here. I live by the "names in the log, claim a find" mantra (the exception of challenge caches) and I'm big into climbing and own quite a few "climb to" hides. There's nothing wrong with your buddy climbing a tree and bringing the log down. There's something very wrong with signing somebody in if they're sitting on their couch at home, but once again....names on the log, claim find.

 

I always motivate others to climb, though.....I even give free lessons and have inspired some of the locals to buy their own gear....but some just won't do it for one reason or another and there's no problem with that.

 

I will say this though...I have more respect for the cacher at the base of the tree then the cacher that leapfrogged. At least the cacher at the bottom of the tree has made the effort to arrive at GZ and sign in, despite not making the climb.

 

You too will have dissenters, Bill. I don't know the percentages of such people out there, but I've been around here long enough to know there are plenty of them. I think I might have done this twice, but there were both very short climbs that anyone could have made. Like 10 feet up or so.

We got quite a few into using rope by letting them tag along first.

They're team members for the day, taking pics and helping with gear.

- Frees me up a bit and worth every smiley.

 

I'm sure there are plenty of dissenters. What I meant was that there will be no dissenting coming from me

I understand where they would be coming from, however personally I can care less who physically made the climb. What matters (to me at least) is that somebody made the climb, and retrieved the cache.

 

I do like having somebody along to roll up the throw line while I'm setting the rope. I still make em earn their smiley

[+Ma & Pa]

climbing a tree in winter with snowboots

 

 

 

FOUND LOG

 

This was our cache of the day. The cache is certainly winter friendly but it is certainly tough to get to the tree after a storm. A 300 meter walk through an open field with the cold wind howling around us, and deep snow. PA volunteered to climb which wasnt too bad even with the high winter boots.

 

When the cache was reached, PA dropped a mitt. brrr. Then when he finished signing he dropped the lid to the cache. He had to descend partway down the tree to get the lid from MA, and then had to climb back up to the cache.

 

TFTC. Caching is always an adventure. A fave.

[+jellis]

Leapfrogging is when a team splits up into two groups. One group finds every second cache and signs on behalf of everyone. The other group finds the ones skipped by the first group and signs on behalf of everyone. Please don't do it. Unless you actually find a specific cache yourself, your name should not be on the log.

 

I think I can say with a great deal of confidence, they're not going to do it. I'll bet they're just wondering if something they've observed falls under the definition. The one of which I'm quoting here, I agree with.

The biggest difference is when you have multiple cachers in a car you are still with the cache that is signed. Leapfrogging only one of the cars signs one cache and skips the next, the other car signs the skipped caches but in most cases all the cachers in the leapfrogging, logs all the caches.

Edited November 19, 2014 by jellis

[+redsox_mark]

The biggest difference is when you have multiple cachers in a car you are still with the cache that is signed. Leapfrogging only one of the cars signs one cache and skips the next, the other car signs the skipped caches but in most cases all the cachers in the leapfrogging, logs all the caches.

 

I agree, and I think most on this thread agree these cases are different.

 

Though some think that with "multiple cachers in a car" everyone must get out of the car and sign (or at least touch) the log. Others don't think this is necessary.

[+Traditional Bill]

The biggest difference is when you have multiple cachers in a car you are still with the cache that is signed. Leapfrogging only one of the cars signs one cache and skips the next, the other car signs the skipped caches but in most cases all the cachers in the leapfrogging, logs all the caches.

 

I agree, and I think most on this thread agree these cases are different.

 

Though some think that with "multiple cachers in a car" everyone must get out of the car and sign (or at least touch) the log. Others don't think this is necessary.

I feel that so long as all participants are at GZ when the find is made and the log is signed that they are entitled to log a find. I don't, however, feel that you should be able to log a find on caches that you "leaped" over on a power trail. That's just cheesy.

[+GeoLog81]

The biggest difference is when you have multiple cachers in a car you are still with the cache that is signed. Leapfrogging only one of the cars signs one cache and skips the next, the other car signs the skipped caches but in most cases all the cachers in the leapfrogging, logs all the caches.

 

If being 30m from the cache while someone logs it is for you 'being still with the cache', than how it is different from the frogleaping?

[cezanne]

The biggest difference is when you have multiple cachers in a car you are still with the cache that is signed. Leapfrogging only one of the cars signs one cache and skips the next, the other car signs the skipped caches but in most cases all the cachers in the leapfrogging, logs all the caches.

 

If being 30m from the cache while someone logs it is for you 'being still with the cache', than how it is different from the frogleaping?

 

There are many powertrails where the car is closer than 30m to the cache!

[+redsox_mark]

The biggest difference is when you have multiple cachers in a car you are still with the cache that is signed. Leapfrogging only one of the cars signs one cache and skips the next, the other car signs the skipped caches but in most cases all the cachers in the leapfrogging, logs all the caches.

 

If being 30m from the cache while someone logs it is for you 'being still with the cache', than how it is different from the frogleaping?

 

For me, it is not a matter of a specific distance, but more one of practicality.

 

With many of the big mega power trails, you can park within a meter of the cache. The driver will be looking out for the cache as they are "parking". If by the time the car is stopped the driver sees where the cache is (or you know where it is, as they are all at the base of a pole for example and you see the pole), and his friend is already getting out of the car and about to grab it, I don't see a need for the driver to get out of the car. As the driver, you can do it if that is required to meet your own criteria. But if the driver doesn't get out, I would not call that "leapfrogging".

 

When I did a smaller powertrail (133 caches), there were 2 of us in the car and we both got out every time and looked. But - the caches were generally 50 meters or more away from parking, and were not all in obvious places and could not be seen from the car, so both getting out made sense.

 

So (and my personal "rule" only): If I'm the driver, I'll get out if there is an opportunity to help with the search. If I know the cache will be found by the time I get out of the car I will not feel obligated to get out.

[Eradicator]

 

But what you're saying is you go for a P&G and as your parking your friend spots the cache hops out, grabs it and signs it but if you, the driver does not get out of the car then you cheated?

 

I hope you climbed every tree of every tree cache you logged

 

You need to sign the logbook in order to log it online. It's a simple rule, why people find it so hard to understand?

 

If you haven't signed the logbook, and you claim the find online, you're cheating. It doesn't matter if you have seen the cache or someone signing it. Unless you've signed the logbook yourself, claiming you have found is the same as fromleaping or armchair logging.

 

Hmm. I guess I'm a cheater then. I don't see much point in signing the log, but I also don't log a find unless I have the cache container in hand. I'll usually open it up so I can note if the contents are wet or otherwise damaged, but then just seal it back up, return it to its spot, and continue on my merry way. If the CO has an issue with that sort of log, so be it.