Holliday Cachers @Lackey PLEASE READ

[+Cache&Cookies]

Hi guys, just before I begin, just so you know, I took this up on one of the Geocaching pages on Facebook as a discussion and there was somewhat of a brainstorm on how to bring about the best solution for this issue, Here is what some of us came up with.

 

Problem:

 

When going overseas, there are many countries and towns that have so many Geocaches which I would like to visit, the only problem is that the majority are in the native language and Google Translate is NOT your friend if you are stuck in the woods or hanging from a cliff (need both hands to grab on). Not only that but printing off a 2 week vacation worth of pages isn't really eco friendly either.

 

I also want to make the most of my time there, so spending an hour looking at a Norwegian to English dictionary as opposed to an hour looking at the beautiful fjords takes away the fun and valuable daylight/Geocaching time.

 

If you're in Germany, Spain, Netherlands or Denmark for example, you will struggle to find English caches and miss out on so much.

There are a good few English cache countries I have come across.

Greece (all over and offer Greek+English Translation on cache page), Israel (all in English or with translation), Iceland (all over), Turkey (all over) + a few more. but the majority of European countries and South American ones are not in English.

 

Solution:

 

As English is the common tongue of the internet and one of the most spoken languages in the world, why not have the following feature as we can't expect the CO to know English and Google Translate is not accurate or available on most affordable GPS devices:

 

On the cache page have a button or log type: 'Volunteer to Translate.'

 

That way people who are multi-lingual can do the community a favour and in their free time offer to translate caches.

 

To roll this out on a mainstream scale, I know there are hardcore Statistic freaks who would jump at the opportunity if there can be a reward scheme in the stats or badges or souvenirs.

for example: a 'white belt translator' for 1-10 caches translated all the way up to Black belt translator for 100+ Translated caches.

 

To 'moderate' the translation, there can be a 5 star ranking system, 5 stars awarded for the most accurate translation, like the review function in iTunes App store.

 

ADVANTAGES:

 

• Eco Friendly (no need to print pages)
  
• Makes the game more inclusive
  
• Moderating the translation will be in the hands of the community, thus not taking up valuable time of reviewers.
  
• Gets people to visit other places and boosts local economies for small villages
  
• incentive scheme with the belt idea for stats.
  
• Spend more time finding the cache than translating documents
  
• Google Translate not available on GPS so this will be the solution
  
• Saves money on Data Roaming and areas with no network meaning App is no longer useful.
  
• I can grab on to the cliff with both hands as opposed to 1 on the cliff and 1 with a notebook (my idea saves lives!!!)
  

 

In Paris, France, the main tourist areas are in English but anything outside of that is in French.

I am fluent in French and would be happy to do this for French caches!

There's so much to see around the world and not everyone wants to stick to the tourist sights, Please consider this.

 

Happy caching and thanks for reading.

 

Edit note: Clarified some issues.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Cache&Cookies

[+cerberus1]

I was into it until you got to the rankings, stats and rewards part...

I could see a simple "if you can translate in another lanquage contact me..." posted somewhere on the cache page though, with a "thanks to" for helping.

[+sbell111]

I'd be happy with a button that 'google translates' the cache page into whatever language the individual cacher requires. It's not a perfect translation by a long shot, but it typically gets the job done.

Edited August 13, 2014 by sbell111

[+Cache&Cookies]

Cerebrus1, Yes, that would be nice and friendly however* if this idea were to be rolled out on a mass 'pay it forward' scale, incentive would play a key part in making this a mainstream feature.

I have no problem being a good samaritan though I can't see this happening to more than a very, very small 0.0.1% of caches.

 

The purpose is to generate interest in the subject, if Geocaching were to launch a campaign on their Facebook page, 1 single post would see a massive transformation.

[+Cache&Cookies]

I'd be happy with a button that 'google translates' the cache page into shatever language the individual cacher requires. It's not a perfect translation by a long shot, but it typically gets the job done.

 

You missed the point where I mentioned that most GPS's do not have Google Translate, the point is to go paperless.

[+sbell111]

I'd be happy with a button that 'google translates' the cache page into shatever language the individual cacher requires. It's not a perfect translation by a long shot, but it typically gets the job done.

 

You missed the point where I mentioned that most GPS's do not have Google Translate, the point is to go paperless.

I guess I did; likely because I'm keyed into the fact that my smartphone has internet access. That being said, the translation could be done prior to when the cache information is dumped into the GPSr. It could actually be requested within the PQ.

Edited August 13, 2014 by sbell111

[+Cache&Cookies]

I'd be happy with a button that 'google translates' the cache page into shatever language the individual cacher requires. It's not a perfect translation by a long shot, but it typically gets the job done.

 

You missed the point where I mentioned that most GPS's do not have Google Translate, the point is to go paperless.

I guess I did; likely because I'm keyed into the fact that my smartphone has internet access. That being said, the translation could be done prior to when the cache information is dumped into the GPSr. It could actually be requested within the PQ.

 

I don't use PQ's, I just plug my GPS in the USB and 'transfer to GPS' on an individual basis.

 

Re: Your smartphone has internet access: YES but this is regarding overseas... Data Roaming = $$$$$$$$$ and that's if you're lucky to get a signal in some d5/t5's

Edited August 13, 2014 by Cache&Cookies

[cezanne]

On the cache page have a button or log type: 'Volunteer to Translate.'

 

And how to you want to integrate the translation into the cache page? And how can cachers then easily filter out those caches for which an English description exists?

 

One of the real issues is that many cache owners and cache searchers against versions in several languages as the descriptions of multi caches and puzzle caches can get very long. (This by the way is also an issue for many GPS units.)

 

I have offered to provide English translations more than once, but the typical reply was negative.

 

Already back in 2003 cachers asked Groundspeak for the option to separate language versions and display only the selected ones. Nothing has happened.

Several times an attribute for "English version" available has been asked for, but again to no avail.

 

I'm pretty pessimistic about this issue and do not believe that Groundspeak is willing to take any sort of action.

 

 

Cezanne

Edited August 13, 2014 by cezanne

[+Cache&Cookies]

On the cache page have a button or log type: 'Volunteer to Translate.'

 

And how to you want to integrate the translation into the cache page? And how can cachers then easily filter out those caches for which an English description exists?

 

One of the real issues is that many cache owners and cache searchers against versions in several languages as the descriptions of multi caches and puzzle caches can get very long. (This by the way is also an issue for many GPS units.)

 

I have offered to provide English translations more than once, but the typical reply was negative.

 

Already back in 2003 cachers asked Groundspeak for the option to separate language versions and display only the selected ones. Nothing has happened.

Several times an attribute for "English version" available has been asked for, but again to no avail.

 

I'm pretty pessimistic about this issue and do not believe that Groundspeak is willing to take any sort of action.

 

 

Cezanne

 

Ok so when building the cache description, have a little tick box to 'opt in'.

 

RE: integration, doesn't have to be on a separate page, can be on the same page under the main description.

 

Take a look at this cache, it's my all time favourite (not for the faint hearted)

 

I would never have known it even existed.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC46A3G_capela-dos-ossos?guid=49a40215-a711-4853-93bf-1ee60f458d88

[+sbell111]

I'd be happy with a button that 'google translates' the cache page into shatever language the individual cacher requires. It's not a perfect translation by a long shot, but it typically gets the job done.

 

You missed the point where I mentioned that most GPS's do not have Google Translate, the point is to go paperless.

I guess I did; likely because I'm keyed into the fact that my smartphone has internet access. That being said, the translation could be done prior to when the cache information is dumped into the GPSr. It could actually be requested within the PQ.

 

I don't use PQ's, I just plug my GPS in the USB and 'transfer to GPS' on an individual basis.

 

Re: Your smartphone has internet access: YES but this is regarding overseas... Data Roaming = $$$$$$$$$ and that's if you're lucky to get a signal in some d5/t5's

Honestly, I don't see much of a need for this as I've always been able to make do while traveling.

 

That being said, there are still ways to make it work. One would be to require PQs if you want translated slurpable pages. Another is to simply have this as something that you can choose within your profile.

[+sbell111]

On the cache page have a button or log type: 'Volunteer to Translate.'

 

And how to you want to integrate the translation into the cache page? And how can cachers then easily filter out those caches for which an English description exists?

 

One of the real issues is that many cache owners and cache searchers against versions in several languages as the descriptions of multi caches and puzzle caches can get very long. (This by the way is also an issue for many GPS units.)

 

I have offered to provide English translations more than once, but the typical reply was negative.

 

Already back in 2003 cachers asked Groundspeak for the option to separate language versions and display only the selected ones. Nothing has happened.

Several times an attribute for "English version" available has been asked for, but again to no avail.

 

I'm pretty pessimistic about this issue and do not believe that Groundspeak is willing to take any sort of action.

 

 

Cezanne

 

Ok so when building the cache description, have a little tick box to 'opt in'.

 

RE: integration, doesn't have to be on a separate page, can be on the same page under the main description.

 

Take a look at this cache, it's my all time favourite (not for the faint hearted)

 

I would never have known it even existed.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC46A3G_capela-dos-ossos?guid=49a40215-a711-4853-93bf-1ee60f458d88

That's a traditional cache. No one would need a translation in order to find it.

[+dprovan]

Eh. I don't mind if you want to encourage something like this, but I actually don't find it that big of a deal. Yes, a description can give you lots of help finding a cache, and the description can be very informative and fun on its own, but I don't find either to be that important even when everything's already in English. In fact, the logs are usually more important to read than the description, but your translation effort won't help get them in English.

 

The key is to remember that you still don't need to find every one, even when you're on a different continent. It's no big deal if you can't find a cache because you can't read the hint.

 

To me, the language is just one more of many possible local standards that make caching harder when I'm away from home. For example, the last time I was caching in Europe, I ran into an area -- in Austria, as I recall -- where the hides were often impossible because of tourists and historical structures, but then made reasonable with pictures showing exactly where to find the cache so you wouldn't dismantle that 17th century wall it was hidden in. I can't look at pictures in the field any more than I can translate a description. In those cases, the descriptions included English, so I could read that about the pictures, I just couldn't look at them.

 

So I just prepare myself for more misses, but it also encourages me to look at caches in advance so I can look at the pictures or translate the hints.

[+Cache&Cookies]

Also, if this was a feature for Premium members, I am certain it would give more people a reason to join, Groundspeak would have major revenue boosts before every summer holiday.

 

I'm already a premium member but still.

 

I don't understand all the pessimistic comments on here, if you want to spend your time looking at an English-German dictionary, cool go ahead but don't be an obstacle to those who do actually want a 'no nonsense' caching adventure.

 

I'd rather spend my time finding more caches and going to more places while I have sunlight.

[cezanne]

I don't understand all the pessimistic comments on here, if you want to spend your time looking at an English-German dictionary, cool go ahead but don't be an obstacle to those who do actually want a 'no nonsense' caching adventure.

 

I'm around since 2002 and I have fighted for more cache descriptions and logs in English for many, many years and I have had many hot debates on the issue.

All my caches are available in English which is not my native language.

 

As I said, I volunteered several times to translate a cache into English (even when the cache owner is fluent in English), but typically received negative reactions.

 

What made me pessimistic is what I've experienced over the last 12 years on this site.

[cezanne]

RE: integration, doesn't have to be on a separate page, can be on the same page under the main description.

 

Yes, of course, but that's exactly what many cache owners and cache searchers object to because the description doubles in length.

 

If the language versions are seperated as on opencaching, see e.g. here

http://www.opencaching.de/viewcache.php?cacheid=103118

everyone can decide which language version (among the available ones) should be displayed.

 

 

Take a look at this cache, it's my all time favourite (not for the faint hearted)

I would never have known it even existed.

http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC46A3G_capela-dos-ossos?guid=49a40215-a711-4853-93bf-1ee60f458d88

 

I do not need examples. All my caches have an English version and most of them are bilingual.

Of course, traditionals tend to have shorter descriptions than long multi caches or mystery caches with several stages.

 

This cache http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC1VCKY_schlossberg-his-story is a really nice multi cache in my home town which is perfectly suitable for tourists. I have offered to provide a translation already when the cache showed up and repeated my offer. It got rejected due to the length argument.

 

 

Cezanne

Edited August 13, 2014 by cezanne

[cezanne]

Yes, a description can give you lots of help finding a cache, and the description can be very informative and fun on its own, but I don't find either to be that important even when everything's already in English.

 

That's true when you refer to traditionals and only the process of finding the container. Multi caches, mysteries, Earth-caches etc are a different story as well as fully understanding historic details etc

 

In fact, the logs are usually more important to read than the description, but your translation effort won't help get them in English.

 

In some ways this is easier to handle if you have access to all logs as there are typically at least 1-2 cachers who log in English.

All my logs are in English and some other Austrian geocachers also log exclusively in English and a few other write at least an English summary for logs for caches that might attract tourists.

 

 

The key is to remember that you still don't need to find every one, even when you're on a different continent.

 

Of course not, but for a lover of multi caches it is unfortunate to be restricted to traditionals.

When I visited Copenhagen in 2003 all caches I encountered except a single one where available in English and the multi caches I did there were definitely the nicer caches than the traditionals.

 

Most urban traditionals annoy me and I then just could as well decide to go for no caches at all in a city where I do not understand the language.

 

 

Cezanne

[+The A-Team]

I don't understand all the pessimistic comments on here...

I think there are a couple of reasons for these comments:

1. This topic has been discussed many times in these forums, often at great length. The regulars may just be tired of seeing the topic come up over and over.

2. I think many of us have accepted that development on this site has basically ground to a halt. It's hard to feel motivated while discussing potential new functionality when it's unlikely anything will ever come of it.

[+Cache&Cookies]

Even if it means a mega annual boost in revenue? like I said, you can imagine premium memberships rising before every summer holiday.

There's money to be made in this idea for Groundspeak.

[cezanne]

Even if it means a mega annual boost in revenue? like I said, you can imagine premium memberships rising before every summer holiday.

There's money to be made in this idea for Groundspeak.

 

The majority of geocachers are satisfied with Google translations if they want to have a translation at all.

Moreover, focusing on the smartphone market and on selling trackables brings much more revenue.

 

I rather think that if the translations were a PM feature, you would find less volunteers. I certainly would not translate someone else's caches if the translations are viewable only for PMs and not for everyone.

[+funkymunkyzone]

I kind of like the suggestion by the OP - with some modifications.

 

I'd rather see some tabs across the top of the cache description - one for each language the cache is translated into. Any language the CO chooses (or has translated to by Google or some other volunteer). Not necessarily English although I imagine that English would be a common one.

 

That would keep happy the COs who only want a specific language on their cache page, and it would also keep happy those that want to offer multiple languages without making the cache description a mile long.

 

Finally for the PQ/GPX downloaders, they could have a single language preference option in their profile, and if the cache is available in that language, that's what gets downloaded, and otherwise it gets downloaded in the first (primary) language on the cache page.

 

If this feature was available, I'd be inclined to have/allow my caches to be translated into other languages. For example, we get a lot of German cachers coming through New Zealand and I'd be happy to have a German translation of my cache pages, particularly the earthcaches just to help with comprehension of the tasks/questions that can sometimes be confusing.

[+tozainamboku]

Even if it means a mega annual boost in revenue? like I said, you can imagine premium memberships rising before every summer holiday.

There's money to be made in this idea for Groundspeak.

I'm not convinced there would be much of an increase in revenue. As you have already stated, many caches in well tourist-ed areas already provide an English translation. Geocachers who travel to foreign countries already make plans in advance and will select caches with translations they can understand or will get the page translated before starting out. If not they will look for caches with only a partial understanding of the cache page. Paperless caching used to mean loading just the coordinates into your GPS unit and hunting caches with no description or hint at all.

 

As in many cases, there is a macro available in the third party GSAK tool that will translate cache descriptions and hints using Google translate and save the translation in a GSAK database that can be downloaded to a GPS unit. Of course GSAK is a third party tool and if you don't like the cost or you don't have a Windows computer, then it doesn't help much. Sometimes, if there is enough demand, Groundspeak will look at incorporating functionality like this on the website. My guess, however, is that given that a third party solution exists this wouldn't be a high priority.

[cezanne]

As you have already stated, many caches in well tourist-ed areas already provide an English translation.

 

That's not really true. It rather is a consequence of the fact that many caches in the mentioned countries have been hidden by foreigners and/or that the countries do not have their own reviewers.

 

Of course GSAK is a third party tool and if you don't like the cost or you don't have a Windows computer, then it doesn't help much. Sometimes, if there is enough demand, Groundspeak will look at incorporating functionality like this on the website. My guess, however, is that given that a third party solution exists this wouldn't be a high priority.

 

GSAK can only deliver automatic translations which cannot compete with manually done translations by someone who is is sufficiently fluent in a language.

Moreover, the first proposals to add some support for multilingual cache descriptions predates tools like GSAK by far.

 

 

Cezanne

Edited August 14, 2014 by cezanne

[+Cache&Cookies]

I kind of like the suggestion by the OP - with some modifications.

 

I'd rather see some tabs across the top of the cache description - one for each language the cache is translated into. Any language the CO chooses (or has translated to by Google or some other volunteer). Not necessarily English although I imagine that English would be a common one.

 

That would keep happy the COs who only want a specific language on their cache page, and it would also keep happy those that want to offer multiple languages without making the cache description a mile long.

 

Finally for the PQ/GPX downloaders, they could have a single language preference option in their profile, and if the cache is available in that language, that's what gets downloaded, and otherwise it gets downloaded in the first (primary) language on the cache page.

 

If this feature was available, I'd be inclined to have/allow my caches to be translated into other languages. For example, we get a lot of German cachers coming through New Zealand and I'd be happy to have a German translation of my cache pages, particularly the earthcaches just to help with comprehension of the tasks/questions that can sometimes be confusing.

 

That works too I think this is a great idea.

[+dprovan]

Yes, a description can give you lots of help finding a cache, and the description can be very informative and fun on its own, but I don't find either to be that important even when everything's already in English.

That's true when you refer to traditionals and only the process of finding the container. Multi caches, mysteries, Earth-caches etc are a different story as well as fully understanding historic details etc

I love non-traditionals, but I tend to look at them in advance even at home, and I always look at them in advance while traveling, so robotic translations are available. Don't get me wrong: I definitely appreciate the ones with English translations. Not only is it more convenient for me, but it also tells me that the CO is supportive of tourists. (For example, they're unlikely to require understanding the language in order to following the trail out in the field.) And I agree with you that translation done by a human is always head and shoulders better than on-line translations.

 

I just don't think it's important enough to implement the feature suggested by the OP. And from what you said in another response, people that want to provide English translations already are, and I'm not convinced the others would use such a feature any more often than they accept your offers to translate for them.

[cezanne]

I love non-traditionals, but I tend to look at them in advance even at home, and I always look at them in advance while traveling, so robotic translations are available.

 

As my caching is still paper-based, I prepare myself in advance too. I just made the experience that automatic translations can be quite bad for more complex texts. In particular, I have made quite bad experiences with Slavic languages and missing accents (another issue aggravated by Groundspeak as it took them so long to offer support for these languages at all).

 

I just don't think it's important enough to implement the feature suggested by the OP. And from what you said in another response, people that want to provide English translations already are, and I'm not convinced the others would use such a feature any more often than they accept your offers to translate for them.

 

As I said before I also do not believe that the feature suggested by the OP would be very successful. Typically those who care a lot about numbers and leadership boards are not those who would volunteer to translate cache pages.

 

I do think however that it would have helped when Groundspeak had added the option to separate multiple language versions from each other when it has been requested for the first time more than 10 years ago.

 

Further, I think that an attribute for "English description available" (it would not need to be used in English speaking countries where it does not make much sense) could easily added even today (and would make more sense as for example the "Lost and Found" attribute in use for just a couple of event caches). Such an attribute does not produce translations, but it helps to identify the existing ones and provides also a motivation for cache owners to add an English description in areas where few caches get translated (it helps to find the needle in the haystack).

 

Cezanne

Edited August 14, 2014 by cezanne

[+NYPaddleCacher]

 

I'd rather spend my time finding more caches and going to more places while I have sunlight.

 

I've found caches in 20 different countries but don't feel like I need to find as many caches as possible while there is daylight. It's pretty easy to identify a handful of caches that one can find during the day, even in a country where the primary language is Swahili, Amharic, or Shona (all languages for countries in which I've found a cache). If one doesn't feel the need to find every cache while in another country it becomes a lot more palatable if not every cache has an English description.

[cezanne]

[ It's pretty easy to identify a handful of caches that one can find during the day, even in a country where the primary language is Swahili, Amharic, or Shona (all languages for countries in which I've found a cache). If one doesn't feel the need to find every cache while in another country it becomes a lot more palatable if not every cache has an English description.

 

Yes and no. In some places in Europe where the acache density is high it is not at all easy to identify the (depending on the location probably few) caches that have an English description (that's why an attribute for the availability of an English version could be very helpful). Without an English version, you still have a reasonable choice to find a sufficient proportion of traditionals, but it is not always easy to make the selection which caches are the really interesting ones for you. In many places you visited, this is an easy task indeed as there are not many caches. If one has only a very short timeframe, the task also becomes easier as not many caches will be feasible. If your main focus is on getting a new country souvenir, then you will certainly have a different focus than if your goal is to be guided to the best insider locations in the area which are not mentioned in typical guide books.

Edited August 18, 2014 by cezanne

[+sbell111]

Maybe you just need to find an atypical guide book.

[cezanne]

Maybe you just need to find an atypical guide book.

 

For some locations such books exist indeed, but in most cases they are available only in the local language and are hard to find.