+BikeBill Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I recently bought a Garmin Chirp and know basically how they work but have some questions. I know the range is supposed to be about 30 feet but in experimenting with it I've found it transponds with my Oregon 600 out to about 100 feet. This leads to a couple of questions: 1) Does the range go down as the battery ages or does it maintain its range until it starts transmitting a low battery warning?, and 2) Does the range depend on what kind of GPSr the Chirp is communicating with? This would be a factor on how far off the trail I could hide the unit. Another thing I wondered about is whether I could limit the Chirps 360 degree transponding angle. Since it won't transpond through metal or thick solid surfaces, I was thinking of putting it in a piece of metal pipe with one end open. That way I might be able to 'aim' the signal to a smaller area. I plan to experiment but wondered if anyone already had tried this or has experience with similar equipment. Thanks for any advice about the above or any other tips you might have about the Chirp in general. Quote Link to comment
+kunarion Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 (edited) The edge of the range is deceptive. If it works at “100 feet”, it's a very weak signal, and once it's lost, things get ugly. Chirp (or at least the GPSr) seems to have a tough time recovering from a signal loss. On my cache page, I suggest that cachers continue to GZ once the signal is captured. Otherwise, people tend to stop immediately. You need a strong signal or Chirp won't work. Some “Chirp Capable” GPSrs can't seem to detect some Chirps at all, or they do so intermittently. Remember that you'll likely need to replace the Chirp device sometime, and they definitely don't all transmit 100 feet. One of mine is at about 20 feet (pretty much unacceptable, but good for testing stuff). Various GPSrs definitely receive the signal at different distances. Also, the GPSr transmits during a Chirp session, so that's a factor. Unless I have fully charged batteries in my GPSr, mine doesn't work very well with Chirp. I don't know if it's possible to “aim” the signal. Chirp is finicky enough, unrestricted. They are very weak to start with. But if it works, post what you did. People are not supposed to find the actual Chirp. If it's in a pipe or whatever, there may be problems. Around here, cachers have a scorched earth policy of razing the area to the ground in search of a cache. They'd have no qualms about poking around in obvious hiding spots such as pipes, and opening “the container” (the Chirp), so I had to hide my Chirps extremely aggressively. Maybe you have a gentler group of cachers in your city. Edited June 2, 2014 by kunarion Quote Link to comment
+kunarion Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 (edited) the point of a chirp It's a digital version of a Multi-cache stage. It places a waypoint onto the GPSr, description and all. No typing, no bushwhacking, nothing to find, just receive the signal and go. One way to use this would be to have it at the side of a trail. People passing that spot receive the coordinates to the next spot. Edited June 2, 2014 by kunarion Quote Link to comment
+kunarion Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 So no hunt for a cache ... seems even more pointless A Multi Cache has a cache to hunt, just as with a traditional cache. The stages that lead to the cache may or may not be hard to find, and Chirps are a variant of cache stages, ideal for sensitive areas where you can't leave the trail to search for coordinates to the next stage. But I've never said Gecaching was not pointless. Sorry for the confusion. Quote Link to comment
alandb Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 One of my favorite cache finds involved a creative container containing a cipher wheel to decode the next stage. The container containing the cipher wheel was locked with a combination padlock. The chirp provided the combination to unlock the container and retrieve the cipher. It was a unique caching experience and was a fun one for me. Quote Link to comment
+BikeBill Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 £17 is about $27.50 in US dollars. On this side of the pond, chirps go for about $23, or £14, so yes, there is a price difference. Good input on the range variables, guys! I like the idea of using the chirp to transmit a lock combination, too. Regarding recovering from a signal loss - I walked toward the Chirp and watched the GPSr's bar graph start to show the data transfer. Then I backed up to see what would happen. The data transfer stopped at 90%. When I walked closer, the data transfer resumed and finished. Now this may be atypical of all Chirp enabled GPSr's as I was using an Oregon 600 which probably has pretty good Chirp technology built in. Quote Link to comment
Fangamon Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Oh great, lets confuse the 'hell' out of people... Quote Link to comment
+Lieblweb Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 A Chirp cache is something different and people enjoy 'different'....We have one placed. Like anything that transmits and/or receives - there are so many different variables to consider - which - even if you test a million times and retest the next day - you'll get different results. I would highly recommend NOT enclosing the chirp in anything - this will greatly weaken the signal. My husband and I ran some 'tests' at home (indoors & outdoors) testing the chirp in a variety of different situations & with both our Garmin GPS's. We discovered that the signal is much weaker (and/or non-existant) when enclosed. Our chirp is located in a pavillion, under the roof, in a corner about 6' high away from the rain/elements. Our cache instructions specifically mention the Chirp feature must be enabled to work. Like technology in general.... sometimes you gotta be patient, by walking around to find the signal. Sometimes you gotta disable & re-enable the chirp feature.... etc. All of which we mention in our instructions. Again....TESTING TESTING TESTING..... And after you publish the chirp cache - your cache logs will tell the story and/or if you need to correct any issues. Quote Link to comment
+BikeBill Posted June 4, 2014 Author Share Posted June 4, 2014 I just did some quick and dirty experiments. I put the chirp on top of a 3 foot high stump and walked away (slightly downhill) them walked back to figure its range. It signaled the Oregon at about 150 paces, which is probably about 130-140 feet (Clear line of sight). Then I put the Chirp in the back of a piece of 2-1/4 inch x 18 inch steel exhaust pipe (placed horizontally on the stump) and walked away again. No Chirp signal until I was directly in front of the pipe - about 50 feet out (I didn't try going further). But then I walked further away perpendicularly and it picked up the signal again at about 100 feet - weird. It might have been that the rear of the pipe was open and the signal bounced off the house from behind. Then I moved the Chirp up to 3 inches from the front of the pipe. I was expecting that this would broaden the width that the Chirp would broadcast. I was very wrong. I couldn't get a signal unless I was within 3-4 feet in front of the pipe. None of this worked as I expected other than putting the Chirp in the pipe mostly decreased the range. Something to note is that the chirp wasn't centered inside the pipe but was just placed on the bottom. I'll have to experiment some more by enclosing the back of the pipe and centering the chirp. Maybe I'll try something simpler like a soup can, too. Quote Link to comment
Fangamon Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Ok, if I attach a chirp to my car keys, can I use my GPS to find them???? Quote Link to comment
+Timpat Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Ok, if I attach a chirp to my car keys, can I use my GPS to find them???? Well, according to the rules, Locationless Caches are no longer allowed! , but I suppose if you got with the 30 meter (per chirp specs) of your keys it would alert you . Quote Link to comment
+BikeBill Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 Ok, if I attach a chirp to my car keys, can I use my GPS to find them???? I think you just discovered a new application for these things! Quote Link to comment
+kunarion Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) Ok, if I attach a chirp to my car keys, can I use my GPS to find them???? No, unless you've entered the keys' coordinates into the GPSr, in which case, you find them by GPS, not chirp. So, no. There are a few kinds of tags that have distance info. "StickNFind" uses Bluetooth signal strength to display a rough estimate of distance, which I used rather effectively to find a relative's cat, a few months ago. Chirps are a little different due to the fact that you're not supposed to find the actual Chirp, and that they send preprogrammed info to any compatible device, not just to the owner's device. Edited June 6, 2014 by kunarion Quote Link to comment
+user13371 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) none of this worked as I expected other than putting the Chirp in the pipe mostly decreased the range. Something to note is that the chirp wasn't centered inside the pipe but was just placed on the bottom. I'll have to experiment some more by enclosing the back of the pipe and centering the chirp. Maybe I'll try something simpler like a soup can, too. Build a big parabolic reflector out of sheet aluminum. Put the Chirp at the focus. I'm not joking (well, maybe a little). I did this several years ago to improve direction and range of a wifi hotspot. You can probably still find plans for that usage online. Edited June 6, 2014 by user13371 Quote Link to comment
+user13371 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Here's a tiny one http://www.freeantennas.com/projects/template/ Quote Link to comment
Fangamon Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Ok, if I attach a chirp to my car keys, can I use my GPS to find them???? I think you just discovered a new application for these things! Hmmm, it's got me thinking... Quote Link to comment
+user13371 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) Stick'n'Find, Tile, and a few other bluetooth based locater tags might work better for finding your keys than a Chirp would. They might even go the other way, someone might find a way to adapt these for some kind of beacon caches -- some being usable by iOS and Android folk without requiring specific Garmin models. Edited June 6, 2014 by user13371 Quote Link to comment
+Team CowboyPapa Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Ok, if I attach a chirp to my car keys, can I use my GPS to find them???? I think you just discovered a new application for these things! Hmmm, it's got me thinking... Hope it doesn't get my parole agent thinking.....he'll want to put one on my ankle. Your tax dollars at work, $27 as I see above. Quote Link to comment
Fangamon Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Hope it doesn't get my parole agent thinking.....he'll want to put one on my ankle. Sounds like the chirp hides it's actual location so you're safe... Quote Link to comment
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