Ohio Newbie Mistake....ODNR Confiscation.

[+Parrot~Trekkers]

I unknowingly broke ODNR rules when I placed Morris's Hemlock Cathedral cache. Officer Seymour sent me a rather curt letter stating my cache was confiscated and that perhaps in the furture I'd research ODNR rules before attempting such a thing again.

 

Well, he was right, and I apologized for this. I guess I was assuming it was okay because of the Alum Creek caches, but it was a pretty poor assumption. Thanks Bill for pointing me to the forums where I read Mr_0's letter regarding this matter. I'll try to be more careful in the future.

 

There was a travelbug in the cache, I'm not sure which one because it wan't logged. If I can get the cache contents back, I will. I'm not sure where the confiscated caches go. Columbus? Do the officers keep them?

 

I will consider putting a virtual cache at Morris Woods, but I see that you need permission for that too (scratching my head on that one).

 

Parrot~Trekkers

David, Jan, Hannah, Tyler, Rebecca, and Maggie the geocaching dog

[+Mr. 0]

Well hey, no reason to apologize, it was an honest mistake. I can see how with all the caches at Alum Creek now, that you'd assume it was ok. Also there wasn't any way for you to know that the rules were posted here. I've had to archive one myself that was placed in an area that it wasn't supposed to be. It turned out to be private property (which I didn't know...but then again I never checked either). I found out because a cacher tried to find it and the land owner had put up all sorts of gates and stuff. It wasn't due to just Geocachers, it was a well used area, and I'm sure the land owner just got tired of people being there.

 

As far as getting the cache back, I've never had to deal with that, so I would say contact Officer Seymour about it, or go into the ranger station and see if it's there. Other than that, I'm not sure how to go about getting it back. I would suggest making some sort of contact about it though soon. I don't know ODNR's policy on it, but I can't imagine that they would keep the cache around for too long before just pitching it.

 

Also with the virtuals....I'm not sure exactly where this cache was placed, I can't find record of it anywhere (I assume you archived it and didn't leave it open for viewing). But they have pretty strict rules regarding Nature Preserves and Wildlife areas. Basically from talking to Scott Zody (Deputy Dog on here) about it, they would prefer we get permission for any caches...just to make sure it's not in an area where people could get hurt or damage the area etc. All in all they seem pretty cool about it though.

 

Let me know if there's anything I can do to help.

 

Mr. 0

 

"Remember that nature and the elements are neither your friend or your enemy - they are actually disinterested."

 

Department of the Army Field Manual FM 21-76 "Survival" Oct. 1970

[+Treasure Hunters Inc.]

I hope you are able to recover your cache. I know that we must adhere to the regulations of the ODNR. I just wanted to comment on the placement you chose.

 

We visited the cache and were the second ones to log it. The area that was chosen was a stand of large Hemlocks. There was essentially no ground cover type plants there, only a carpet of needles which obscured any and all traces of the the FTF person's tracks. You put the cache in one of the best places in the park to prevent/reduce impact to the local environment.

But of coarse that was still NOT OK. I just wanted to give some credit for your good choice of cache locations.

 

geocaching is living in a 30 foot circle

[+Parrot~Trekkers]

Draegon (did I spell your name correct), I think that was the point of my original post. I made a mistake.

That being said, I also think that ODNR officers and other public servants should remember who they are serving, who is paying their salary, and perhaps handle such things in a way that might encourage public support. Caching in Ohio seems to be accepted differently depending on what county you live in.

 

[imghttp://my.sota-oh.com/%7Edavidw/team.gif[/img]

[Keystone]

Generally ODNR has been hospitable to geocaching statewide, restricting hides just in nature preserves and other similar places. I'm not aware of any geocacher being told "no" when asking to place a cache in a regular state park area. All they ask is for you to visit the park office.... they just want to know who you are, and where you want to hide your cache. The process is far simpler than the two-step application and written permit process in neighboring Pennsylvania.

 

Counties, of course, are an entirely different matter. In Ohio, policies range from counties who post their own caches to those who ban caches in the Metroparks entirely. If you are thinking of hiding a cache in a county park, and aren't sure about whether there's a geocaching policy, please ask an experienced geocacher like Draegon in Cincinnati, Mr. O in Central Ohio, SirAl or Sherwood Forest in Northeast Ohio, etc. You may also write to your (usually) friendly site admin for assistance. I've lost count but I think I've found caches in more than a dozen Ohio counties by now. The other admins who review Ohio caches are also familiar with the many land manager policies.

 

It is Geocaching.com's position that a land manager really can't regulate the placement of a virtual cache, so long as you're being taken to an area where the public is allowed to travel. If you choose to work cooperatively with a land manager regarding a virtual cache placement, that's great, but I don't think it's required other than for good relations. You are just sharing coordinates, no different than drawing an arrow on a trail map and saying "go here."

 

A final note... please review the requirements for placing a virtual cache before spending a lot of time on a submission in an area where physical caches are not permitted. The cache would still need to meet the rather strict test for a virtual cache subject... it can't be just a nice trail or a scenic view, but rather a unique, interesting specific object that requires a GPS to find it.

 

[This message was edited by Keystone Approver on October 14, 2003 at 09:54 PM.]

[O.K.I.C.]

For even more information/forms for placing Geocaches in SW Ohio county/city/private parks, KY State parks, OH state parks - visit the OKIC (Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana Cachers) website at http://www.okic.org. If you can't find the information on the OKIC site, please post a message on our forum and we will try to find the information for you.

 

Our organization consists of cachers in the SE IN, Northern KY, Cincinnati, Dayton, Xenia, Springfield, Piqua, Amelia, Wilmington and surrounding areas.

 

Cheers ... BVCY Swim

OKIC Cache Counselor

[+Parrot~Trekkers]

I was sent this today by an ODNR officer:

Geo-Caching Tips for ODNR Properties

 

If you are considering establishing a cache on property owned or managed by the Ohio Department of Natural Resources, (State Parks, State Forests, State Nature Preserves, State Wildlife Areas) please adhere to the following guidelines to avoid legal complications and/or prosecution:

 

1. Always consult the local facility manager for permission before establishing a cache. Many are eager to help determine safe, scenic, and fun locations.

 

2. Traditional caches are NOT permitted on State Nature Preserves or Wildlife Areas – virtual caches only. Illegally placed caches will be removed.

 

3. If you do not know how to contact a local facility manager, please contact the following staff:

 

State Parks – Phil Hoffman – (614) 265-6561

State Forests – Don Karas – (614) 265-6694

State Nature Preserves – Ron Demmy – (614) 265-6453

State Wildlife Areas – Jennifer Windus – (614) 265-6330

[O.K.I.C.]

Thanks for the info TPT. We'll incorporate your ODNR info into our OKIC website.

 

Cheers ... BVCY Swim

OKIC Cache Counselor

[Keystone]

FYI, the ODNR letter quoted by Team Parrot Trekkers (and originally brought to the forums by Mr 0, if I recall correctly) is what the approvers use when asking geocachers about new caches hidden in ODNR-managed areas. I think I'll also add it to my profile page like I do for the Pennsylvania rules.

 

Also, if you have already obtained permission from the park, you can reduce the delay in getting your cache approved by stating this fact in the new "Note to Reviewer" field on the new cache form. This note now deletes automatically when your cache is approved.

 

By the way, the problem with Ohio State Nature Preserves and State Wildlife Areas is that these are not always marked on the maps, like State Parks are. So, some caches slip through in the review process. That's what happened with the cache which prompted this thread.

 

I've worked with several Ohio geocachers who have had no problem getting permission by visiting the park office. Great job!