"All requests for photographs must be optional." - Applies to Virtuals?

[+mbooda]

"All requests for photographs must be optional." - from para. 6 of the Earthcache guidelines.

 

Does this apply to caches other than Earthcaches? Specifically, Virtual caches?

 

If so, why is this explicitly stated in the Earthcache guidelines, but nowhere else?

 

If not, why not? Does it have to do with grandfathering of Virtuals, whose descriptions can still be changed?

 

Does this only apply to photographs of the geocacher claiming the find, or to all photos?

[+geodarts]

"All requests for photographs must be optional." - from para. 6 of the Earthcache guidelines.

 

Does this apply to caches other than Earthcaches? Specifically, Virtual caches?

 

If so, why is this explicitly stated in the Earthcache guidelines, but nowhere else?

 

If not, why not? Does it have to do with grandfathering of Virtuals, whose descriptions can still be changed?

 

Does this only apply to photographs of the geocacher claiming the find, or to all photos?

 

As you point out, this is part of the earthcache guidelines and as such applies uniquely to this type of cache. It has nothing to do with existing virtuals. As I understand it, the guideline was created to ensure that earthcaches are focused upon earth science lessons. The logging requirements for earthcaches should be such that photographs are not needed. There was considerable discussion of the guideline in threads in the earthcache section of the forums when the guidelines were announced.

 

Although the guideline applies to all earthcaches, some older earthcache listings were never changed. In general, however, an earthcache log cannot be deleted for lack of a photo.

Edited November 6, 2013 by geodarts

[+T.D.M.22]

Earthcaches are not reviewed by Groundspeak, so some rules will specifically be about them. The only regular caches that can require photos are grandfathered in. That means I can't require a photo on any new cache I make. This is covered in the guidelines, and is part of something called ALR-Additional Logging Requirements, which are no longer allowed. All that is required is the log be signed(except for the grandfatherd caches I spoke of, and Challenge caches-which require you to attend 10 event, for example)

 

This applies to any photo, questions/answers and other things.

[+Ambrosia]

As you said, allowing pictures for virtuals is grandfathered. A lot of virtuals would have to be archived if this requirement (not allowing pictures) were suddenly enforced with them, as a lot of virtual owners either do not live close enough to their virtuals to make up a new verification method, or are no longer active.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Ambrosia

[+tozainamboku]

The idea with virtual caches were that these were specific objects that were found using a GPS. The difference between virtual caches and physical caches was simply that instead of hiding a container and log, the virtual cache was a pre-existing object. You confirmed that you found the object by taking a picture or by answering a question that could only be answer by visiting the cache. Many virtual cache asked the your either included you GPS in the photo or that the finder themselves be in the photo. Ostensibly this was to prevent using a picture of the object that you found on the internet.

 

EarthCaches were never intended to be geocaches. They are for all pratical purposes a type of waymark that was started before Waymarking. The reasons why EarthCaches remain listed on Geocaching.com instead of Waymarking have been speculated on in other threads.

 

Originally, many people who hid EarthCaches viewed them as another sort of virtual cache. They believe that EarthCaches had a need to confirm that you actually found them. Perhaps the fact that EarthCaches count in the find count made some people think that confirmation of finds is required. While EarthCache.org does intend that you actually visit the EarthCache, they are not intending for this to be a cache hunt. Instead the idea is that the EarthCache is an educational experience.

 

EarthCaches had an issue where some owners of EarthCaches were deleting logs where people had visited the EarthCache, understood the geology lesson, and answered some questions, but didn't post a picture or posted a picture that didn't meet the cache owner's requirements. So EarthCache.org decided to add the guidelinee you quoted above. If you wish to own an EarthCache you can't make people post a picture in order to log a find.

 

On the other hand, if you find a Virtual cache that has a photo requirement, you should post the required photo. As the guidelines are currently written a virtual cache owner may delete your log if you don't meet the requirements detailed on the cache listing.

[cezanne]

The idea with virtual caches were that these were specific objects that were found using a GPS.

 

I guess that not everyone thinks about virtuals and about geocaches in the same way.

 

For almost all early time geocachers in my area the focus has been on showing locations, objects and trails that are worthwhile to visit and

point others to aspects new to them (including e.g. information on the historical origin in case of historic objects etc). Multi caches have played an

important role in those times and so I have never thought about geocaches and virtuals as searching for a specific object. For me the main focus has never been on the container, but on what happens before. I've seen the container with a log book just

as one form of proving my visit.

 

My own virtual is mainly about pointing people to facts that they have not been aware before and that they would not discover if they just happened to visit the locations

by chance.

 

Virtuals/waymarks/Traditionals etc that just lead me to a single object that is reachable as a drive in and which I could easily visit without a GPS-receiver and are listed in typical guide books are not attractive to me. I do not get anything extra.

 

A guided city tour that leads you to 20 locations (not all of them very well known) where you have to answer a question to compute in the end the coordinates of a final container

is not too far from the virtual version where there is no container at the end. I regard both as geocaches, one with a container and one without one.

Waymark sounds very much like a single waypoint even though Waymarking has been tweaked a bit to accomodate also collections of multiple waypoints.

 

I wonder however what makes you state that Earthcaches never have been caches, but do not make the same claim for virtuals (I can understand that

some people define caches via the container, but then there is no difference between ECs and virtuals).

 

 

Cezanne

[Keystone]

The topic is, "do the earthcache rules about requiring photographs also apply to virtual caches?"

 

The answer is, no.

 

If you would like to talk about other related subjects, open a new thread or start a private conversation with the person you're interested in engaging in conversation.