I AM FRUSTRATED

[+envchemist]

I just began Geocaching this year and I want to add back to the game. Part of my problem is getting permission. It's the lawsuit craziness. No one wants the liability. So my only yes has been from parks that are just saturated. What is "left" isn't much. Does anyone have help to answer the liability concerns? Geocaching.com caching at your own risk is not enough.

 

Thanks

 

Nydia

[4wheelin_fool]

It's more about communication than permission. Asking permission implies liability, while just communicating and letting them know your intentions while being open to any input is much better. Don't use the word "permission". just tell them what you are planning and listen to what they may be concerned about. As long as they are aware and don't have a problem with it, that's what is important.

 

Reviewers used to be called Approvers for the same reason. You don't really need their approval, only knowledge of.

 

You could also not tell them at all, but when they find out they may find it disrespectful and remove the cache without telling you at all. At that point it's difficult to argue that they should communicate that they removed the cache, when you did not communicate anything when you placed it.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

I just began Geocaching this year and I want to add back to the game. Part of my problem is getting permission. It's the lawsuit craziness. No one wants the liability. So my only yes has been from parks that are just saturated. What is "left" isn't much. Does anyone have help to answer the liability concerns? Geocaching.com caching at your own risk is not enough.

 

Thanks

 

Nydia

 

First off, thank you for asking for permission. That's an important step in cache hiding that is ignored far too often.

 

Second, the "cache at your own risk" wording only excludes Groundspeak from being sued if someone gets injured or dies while geocaching. It doesn't protect the landowner.

 

Third, how are you presenting your cache to the landowner? And how is the cache going to be hidden? If it's something generic like "I want to hide a cache on your property, do I have permission to do so?", why would that landowner immediately jump to thoughts of liability? If you said something like "I want to hide a cache up in a tree on your property", then, of course, they're going to think about someone falling out of the tree and the liability for injuries that occur on their land. If you are trying to hide "dangerous" caches, I would expect many landowners to balk at giving permission.

[+wimseyguy]

Keep in mind that the OP caches in South Carolina. Due to the near legislative ban on geocaching a few years back the SC reviewers are probably a bit more conservative about permission for cache placements than some of the rest of us might be used to. Misrepresentation of geocaching activity in cemeteries led to the creation of a bill that almost became law there.

 

Those of you who are newer to the forums and game might not even be aware that this took place back in 2005.

If you have a few hours to read the history the two best threads are here and here. The first is the initial discussion when the bill was in the house which passed the legislation. The second thread is about the senate hearings which ended in letting the bill die.

Edited July 29, 2013 by wimseyguy

[+SwineFlew]

Keep in mind that the OP caches in South Carolina. Due to the near legislative ban on geocaching a few years back the SC reviewers are probably a bit more conservative about permission for cache placements than some of the rest of us might be used to. Misrepresentation of geocaching activity in cemeteries led to the creation of a bill that almost became law there.

 

Those of you who are newer to the forums and game might not even be aware that this took place back in 2005.

If you have a few hours to read the history the two best threads are here and here. The first is the initial discussion when the bill was in the house which passed the legislation. The second thread is about the senate hearings which ended in letting the bill die.

Since I found plenty of caches in SC, I saw a number of caches that never got permission. I been in SC twice this year alone and I live on the west coast.

[+envchemist]

I just tell them what Geocaching is and email them the basic information. That's it. This last time I described a flat little magnetic key holder under a picnic table. The time before that, the guy called his insurance company and they said no. He actually told me that he wouldn't allow High School car washing for fundraisers for the same reason. It's all about someone suing them if they get hurt on the property.

 

I'll tell you why I want to ask permission that's because I was looking for a cache one day. I looked up not, one but 2 cops. Fortunately I look pretty harmless.

 

So I'll turn this around. How do you all ASK? How do you get that yes?

 

 

I just began Geocaching this year and I want to add back to the game. Part of my problem is getting permission. It's the lawsuit craziness. No one wants the liability. So my only yes has been from parks that are just saturated. What is "left" isn't much. Does anyone have help to answer the liability concerns? Geocaching.com caching at your own risk is not enough.

 

Thanks

 

Nydia

 

First off, thank you for asking for permission. That's an important step in cache hiding that is ignored far too often.

 

Second, the "cache at your own risk" wording only excludes Groundspeak from being sued if someone gets injured or dies while geocaching. It doesn't protect the landowner.

 

Third, how are you presenting your cache to the landowner? And how is the cache going to be hidden? If it's something generic like "I want to hide a cache on your property, do I have permission to do so?", why would that landowner immediately jump to thoughts of liability? If you said something like "I want to hide a cache up in a tree on your property", then, of course, they're going to think about someone falling out of the tree and the liability for injuries that occur on their land. If you are trying to hide "dangerous" caches, I would expect many landowners to balk at giving permission.

Edited July 29, 2013 by envchemist

[+Walts Hunting]

I tend to act more like the fifth bullet from this brilliant navy admiral

 

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper

[Clan Riffster]

So I'll turn this around. How do you all ASK? How do you get that yes?

I stick to hiding in natural areas which are already receptive to geocaching, or I foster a positive relationship with land managers until they become receptive to geocaching. Partially, this is because I believe I have a greater chance of getting a "Yes" from the manager of a 5000 acre park, than from the manager of a 500 acre parking lot. But personal preference also plays a role. Under the auspices of, "Hide what you like to find", I would much rather play this game in the woods, as opposed to a parking lot.

[4wheelin_fool]

I tend to act more like the fifth bullet from this brilliant navy admiral

 

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper

 

Geocaches are currently banned in several areas due to no permission being asked. When land managers discover something going on under their noses showing disrespect, they get pissed off. I just came from Acadia National Park, which is such an awesome and beautiful park where there are no caches allowed. In April it was the Smokey Mountains. No caches are allowed there either. What happened? Along the line someone did something disrespectful, leaving a foul taste in their mouth. They could not prevent it, because communication was nonexistent until after the fact. Even Cracker Barrel has banned caches. If someone had gotten permission ahead of time and posted for people to look for them only during business hours, they would still be around. Apparently the managers found something creepy about people going onto the property after hours, especially with all of the antiques on the porches. Forgiveness is not always granted easily, or at all.

 

The OP does not need to ask for permission, but should be careful with that. Private commercial property? If it doesn't create any problems, it should be okay. If someone goes in after hours will there be police and security involved? Then its a bad idea. There is nothing like pulling into a small mom and pop store with a dozen parking spaces out front and a cache on the property. I go in and the owner and wife are in their 70s and working behind the counter. I buy a few things and ask for some hints about the cache. Cache? They don't know anything about it. I explain, and they say that there have recently been people acting strangely on the property and they have noticed others were there after hours. People acting oddly have taken off quickly when approached. At this point they want the cache removed, and think its a creepy game. Now if they were asked beforehand things may have been much different, especially if people were warned not to go after hours on the page. At such a small business, leaving a geocache there shows a basic level of disrespect. At that point, there will be no forgiveness. Just because there are a few hundred parking lot micros around with no permission, does not mean that every parking lot is fine. Communication is the key.

[+Walts Hunting]

I doubt they were banned because permission wasn't asked and there is no way to verify that statement. I suspect in most if not all of those areas if permission had been asked it would have been refused at the start. The tendency of all government employees is generally to say no so they don't have responsibility.

[4wheelin_fool]

I doubt they were banned because permission wasn't asked and there is no way to verify that statement. I suspect in most if not all of those areas if permission had been asked it would have been refused at the start. The tendency of all government employees is generally to say no so they don't have responsibility.

 

They were banned because someone did something that someone else in charge did not like. If there was communication ahead of time it would have been prevented. Try to sneak something behind someones back and the tendency is that they are going to react negatively when they do find out. There are plenty of geocaches currently allowed by government employees in many parks with blanket permission. They trust and respect the hobby. Some parks mention it in their brochures. In one park that I visited there was a plastic "bandit sign" posted informing cachers that the coords were changed for one cache in particular. Put a nail in a tree, or spray paint a marker, and that very well may be allowed with coordination from managers who know about it ahead of time. Have them find it out on their own? Their mind will then imagine all other scenarios and they will put a stop to it.

[+cachegophers]

I'm thinking of placing my first cache and it turns out that the forest preserve here requires a geocache permit. Apparently they regulate the size and even the color of the cache. And the permit expires. You have to continually renew it. I'll probably not place my cache on forest preserve property.

Edited July 30, 2013 by cachegophers

[+The Jester]

Even Cracker Barrel has banned caches. If someone had gotten permission ahead of time and posted for people to look for them only during business hours, they would still be around. Apparently the managers found something creepy about people going onto the property after hours, especially with all of the antiques on the porches. Forgiveness is not always granted easily, or at all.

Actually CB had a blanket acceptance of caches for several years, then changed their minds. There was a thread about that a couple of years back.