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pstidsen

Pipe Organ - The King of Instruments

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I am working on a collection of Pipe Organ waymarkings and it seems like the only category they will fit in are the > Culture > Musical Instuments

 

This category includes lots of statues, signs etc. and I am thinking that maybe Pipe Organs should have it's own category (sub to Musical Instruments maybe?) The pipe organ is the grandest musical instrument in size and scope, and has existed in its current form since the 14th century. Along with the clock, it was considered one of the most complex human-made mechanical creations before the Industrial Revolution and Mozart reffered to it as The King of Instruments.

 

Specifications for Pipe Organs are unique (stops, manuals, ranks, registers, pipes etc.) and this kind of information would be required in an organ category.

 

There are pro and cons, and as I am quite new to Waymarking I would love to hear from more experienced members on this subject. I short terms my thoughts are: 1) I would like to have more specific and detailed information included in organ waymarks. 2) I don't wan't to take something away from an existing category that truly should belong there.

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I have already missed a specific category for those great instruments, too. I didn't realized to submit them to the musical instruments category. This would be a good idea. But I would be more happy if they would have their own category. So why not? I would support such a category.

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The 'Musical Instruments' category has 288 Waymarks at the moment. About 20 organs are listed there. Why should we create a new category when the interest is so low. Why are so less organs waymarked? Because there is no 'Organ' category?

 

On the other hand the organs don't fit well there.

 

Two examples, both Waymarks from the MI category:

 

http://img.Groundspeak.com/Waymarking/d1152413-e990-4a2b-84d2-f1dbe62580ab.jpg

 

http://img.Groundspeak.com/Waymarking/f2dd95ca-f83c-4c6a-af68-61d2977ad64e.jpg

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Your second example is indeed the strangest pipe organ I've ever seen. I would not have recognizedit, if you had not told me ;-)

 

My opinion is pipe organs are great instruments, but usually not very weather proof. And Waymarking is generally an outdoors hobby. This does not fit very well together. Many categories also have waymarks that are indoors, but I am not in favor of a category that has almost exclusively indoor items. Not everything needs to be waymarkable even if it's interesting.

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Thanks for your response. This helped a lot but not in the way I would have expected. Here is some responces and new thoughts.

 

The 'Musical Instruments' category has 288 Waymarks at the moment. About 20 organs are listed there. Why should we create a new category when the interest is so low. Why are so less organs waymarked? Because there is no 'Organ' category?

I just love this quote :-) No, an Organ category is probably not enough to grow interest on its own. However, this made me think and after a closer look at the category I think that Organs aren't the only instrument that fits and don't fit here. More on this subject below...

 

My opinion is pipe organs are great instruments, but usually not very weather proof. And Waymarking is generally an outdoors hobby. This does not fit very well together. Many categories also have waymarks that are indoors, but I am not in favor of a category that has almost exclusively indoor items. Not everything needs to be waymarkable even if it's interesting.

I can understand this statement. It is probably a discussion that belongs in a threat of its own. To me it is most important that Waymarking is accessable to the general public. I can't tell how it is in other parts of the world but in Europe most religious buildings (where lots of pipe organs are placed) are open and free to visit in the daytime. I think thats quite as good and enjoyable as eg. art waimarkings placed in cellars or indoor museeums. However, I am sure this is a subject with lots of individual oppinions.

 

Still beeing quite new in Waymarking this could be something I just don't get at this time. Is it good style and normal to create categories "wide" so that lot's of different things fit in, or is it better to have a more specific style?

 

Examples could be > Culture > Musical Instruments as a "wide" category an the categories under > Buildings > Religious Buildings as "specific"

 

I did a little statistic on the first 150 waymarkings in Musical Instruments. Thats a little confusing to a newbee as myself.

 

51 of 150 WM's are real instruments: 5 guitars, 21 organs and some other instruments. Most of these are indoor.

7 of 150 WM's are Museer and the WM points to a specific instrument in their indoor collection

1 WM is a park

1 WM is a room with a special sound effect

18 of 150 WM's are Signs, mostly with the instrument as part of a bussines logo. Most of those are outdoor

70 of 150 WM's are Sculptures, Statues or other kind of arts. No real instruments here, but lots of fine artistic instrument creations. Aprox. half of these only show instruments as a minor part of the display.

2 of 150 WM's looks like they are misplaced.

 

148 of 150 WM's fits in the description af the category Musical Instruments.

 

I don't say this is wrong, but I don't see the logical conection in these very different Waymarkings. Somehow I find it unlogical that real playable instruments are in a category together with artwork. Wouldn't both parts benefit from a split category? It's not unlikely that more people would show interest in this group if it was split in more specific groups.

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Posted Yesterday, 06:54 AM by silverquill:

 

"...I appreciate your questions about categories. All of us occasionally scratch our head trying to figure out how best to waymark an interesting site. We certainly have a better chance of solving these questions than we did a few years ago as the number of categories has grown to well over 1,000 now.

 

Therein lies part of the problem. No one sat down and just created a thousand categories and organized them into a logical structure. After the initial experimental categories were created, they began to be developed one-by-one as people expressed an interest in a particular type of site. The result is an inconsistent conglomeration of categories and groupings. Some categories are very narrow in focus while others a quite broad; some have various geographical restrictions while others are truly global; some are very concrete and specific while others are broadly subjective. In many cases there are categories that overlap to one degree or another.

 

All of this means that it may take some digging to find the best category for any given object or site. Sometimes it can go in the side door, so to speak, of another category. And, sometimes, even with all of that, the answer may be that there just isn't a category that is a good fit. This may lead one to create a new category, or it may lead us to sigh and realize that not everything that is interesting can be waymarked or needs to be waymarked.

 

In the case of your idea about abandoned places and things, it is true that this idea is too broad, lumping together many dissimilar things. As BruceS has pointed out, there are already many more specific categories for many of these items. In general, a good category will have a clearly defined, objective focus. Sure we have some examples of bad categories, like "Cemeteries of the World," that are overly-broad, but that doesn't mean that they are examples to follow. Also, remember that each new category must go through the peer review process. Sentiments about new categories have changed over time, and I think the present climate would not favor such a broad category.

 

In the case of your rock formation, there might be a category that would work, but perhaps not. The best thing would be to post a picture and description of it on the forum and ask for ideas. Someone might be able to suggest something. The is done from time-to-time and we have a very helpful community of waymarkers.

 

Finally, my best advice is to take some time to explore the Waymarking.com categories and the structure. It is a gangly sort of thing, but you can begin to get a feel for what is here. Then take a good look at some of the categories that interest you. See how they are written and what kinds of waymarks are included. Just keep in mind that some categories and some waymarks are better than others. Then, if you still have a new category idea, write it up as best you can and post it here for comments before trying to form a group. This process will get you the best results.

 

Above all, keep visiting waymarks, creating your own waymarks and submitting them, and learning as much as you can..."

 

The 'Musical Instruments' category is an old category from the beginning. At this time there was no category like "Statues of Historic Figures" or "Figurative Public Sculpture". After 1000+ categories perhaps it had been better not to combine statues, instruments and signs. 6,5 years this category is running. Perhpas it make sense to split something. Let's see what our fellows think.

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I am experienced Geocacher but newbee Waymarker. How would this work? As a mucician with intrest in all music realated things I would love to spend time on improving a category. I could easily make a suggestion on a new structure, and afterwards donate time to implement such a change.

 

But I don't know if thats the right thing to do, and I don't know the proper way to initiate such a suggestion.

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Posted Yesterday, 06:54 AM by silverquill:

 

The 'Musical Instruments' category is an old category from the beginning. At this time there was no category like "Statues of Historic Figures" or "Figurative Public Sculpture". After 1000+ categories perhaps it had been better not to combine statues, instruments and signs. 6,5 years this category is running. Perhpas it make sense to split something. Let's see what our fellows think.

 

As you stated Musical Instruments is an old category yet has remained a fairly small category thus to me it not does make sense to have a bunch of smaller musical instrument categories. Perhaps the originators of this category had insight, by having a category which combined multiple items with a common theme would make it a large enough pool of items to support the category. There are a couple smaller instrument categories, wind harps which pre-dates the musical instrument category and carillons which was added later. Carillons does make some sense as they are significant structures on to themselves. Having multiple other musical instrument categories really does not... especially others where most of the items will be located inside.

 

We don't really ever restructure an existing categories, they may get moved to different departments if needed, they may have some of the description changed or the requirements "tweaked" but the category remains. Changing the intent of a category is also not desired, the category was approved by peers at the time of its creation thus any substantial changes should be done with extreme caution. Other categories may be added but they are not subsidiary of the existing category, they are a parallel and independent category, standing on its own.

Edited by BruceS
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Thanks to lumbricus for reposting my note on this subject.

 

While we may agree that the existing Musical Instruments is a hodgepodge of waymarks, but it is what it is, and I'm okay with that. The fact remains that pipe organs are accepted in this category. If someone has a special interest in pipe organs, then that person is welcome to create a collection of outstanding waymarks to be included here.

 

Is it good to pull out a small sub-group of sites from a larger category? Sometimes this may be justified, but there must be a compelling reason to do so. A dedicated category for pipe organs might draw more interest and allow for more specialized waymarks that highlight the unique features of these instruments. Many are grand creations in beautiful settings, which others are common and less grand. I've seen them is small, unremarkable churches and some of the largest in the world. In fact, the largest, by Guinness Book of Records, was at the Yeosu Expo which was held here recently--an outdoor creation.

 

Many of these could be included as part of other waymarks in several different church categories.

 

I'm not personally opposed to the idea, but we'd have to think hard about the implications.

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Thanks for all your responses. New eyes sees things in new ways. I still think that the categories could be organized in a better way but I don't think that would be in the spirit of Waymarking. I learned a lot from this short threat so even though I'm not going to suggest a new organ category it wasn't a subject without meaning and learning for me. Thanks

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Getting in on this a little late, but Rick and I (Diane) have been having an interesting discussion tonight. Our consensus is that we don't NEED the category, but we would vote yes tp have it. Pipe organs are fairly unique; they are not portable like wind instruments or even larger instruments like pianos; and they are truly fascinating. One of the saddest times I can remember was when a theater pipe organ was removed from a local eating/entertainment establishment and sent to another state because the establishment was being bulldozed.

 

In the meantime, thanks for the topic...and now I know what to do with a picture I have from Ireland this past summer...I couldn't think where to post it and now I know! Into the musical instrument category it will go...here comes way mark #289!

 

Diane

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After I submitted the largest pipe organ in Europe today I came to the conclusion that a category for these special instruments would be a good idea.

So let's try. Pstidsen, do you have already a proposal :grin:

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My earlier comments in this thread still stand. These can be submitted to the musical instrument category. That category is relatively small thus a bunch of smaller categories are not needed.

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I have a short proposal and could have more material ready in a short time. Right now I am working on a WM that could be used as an example organ (in the instrument category). Creating an "outstanding" organ is probably the best way of showing why I find these instruments in a league of their own.

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