Multicache, Traditional or Puzzle? Experts, I need help!

[+ysabet]

Okay, it's like this... I want to place a cache whose coordinates will lead to a container that holds a tool needed to open the cache itself; it'll have directions on it that say something like "Walk ten feet due north and look behind the tree with the Geocaching symbol attached to it", nothing more complex than that. The cache'll be a stationary, unmoveable item with a padlock; the padlock's combo'll be gained via three questions asked in the online post (not difficult ones, the answers can be found easily enough, are numeric and aren't at allambivalent.)

 

So-- what is this? I'm fairly new with less than 200 finds and only 8 hides; I'm learning, but I don't want to screw this up! It has elements of all three cache-types: Traditional, because the cache itself'll be in a single container; Puzzle, because you have to answer questions to get the padlock-combination; and Multicache, because the cache won't be at GZ (though it'll be very close by.) Heeeeelp! Thanks very much.

[Pup Patrol]

Okay, it's like this... I want to place a cache whose coordinates will lead to a container that holds a tool needed to open the cache itself; it'll have directions on it that say something like "Walk ten feet due north and look behind the tree with the Geocaching symbol attached to it", nothing more complex than that. The cache'll be a stationary, unmoveable item with a padlock; the padlock's combo'll be gained via three questions asked in the online post (not difficult ones, the answers can be found easily enough, are numeric and aren't at allambivalent.)

 

So-- what is this? I'm fairly new with less than 200 finds and only 8 hides; I'm learning, but I don't want to screw this up! It has elements of all three cache-types: Traditional, because the cache itself'll be in a single container; Puzzle, because you have to answer questions to get the padlock-combination; and Multicache, because the cache won't be at GZ (though it'll be very close by.) Heeeeelp! Thanks very much.

 

It definitely is not a Traditional.

 

It's either a Multi-cache or an ? Unknown (Puzzle). (I'm leaning towards ? Unknown.)

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/cache_types.aspx

 

Geocache Types

 

Traditional Cache

This is the original geocache type consisting of, at minimum, a container and a log book or logsheet. Larger containers generally include items for trade. “Nano” or “micro” caches are tiny containers that only hold a logsheet.

 

The coordinates listed on the traditional cache page provide the geocache’s exact location.

 

Multi-Cache

A Multi-Cache ("multiple") involves two or more locations. The final location is a physical container. There are many variations, but most Multi-Caches have a hint to find the second cache, and the second cache has a hint to the third, and so on. An offset cache (where you go to a location and get hints to the actual cache) is considered a Multi-Cache.

 

Mystery or Puzzle Caches

The "catch-all" of cache types, this form of geocache may involve complicated puzzles that you will first need to solve to determine the coordinates. Mystery/Puzzle Caches often become the staging ground for new and unique geocaches that do not fit in another category.

 

 

B.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Pup Patrol

[+1Husky]

Sounds like a multi to me. I did one similar in Philadelphia a couple weeks ago. First stage was an Altoids tin with a key inside. You had to figure out what in the area had to be opened with that key to get the log. I thought it was very clever.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Margatecachers

[+ysabet]

Huh... very good points; I'm thinking that you're both right, it's either a Multi or a Puzzle... and I think I'll go with a Puzzle classification. The answers to the questions will be necessary to open the container that holds the cache, and the tool'll be necessary to remove the things that block reaching the cache *and* to fish it out of there; it'll be fairly evil.

 

Much obliged, y'all!

Edited April 27, 2012 by ysabet

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

I have one similar, and it is listed as a Multi.

[Pup Patrol]

Huh... very good points; I'm thinking that you're both right, it's either a Multi or a Puzzle... and I think I'll go with a Puzzle classification. The answers to the questions will be necessary to open the container that holds the cache, and the tool'll be necessary to remove the things that block reaching the cache *and* to fish it out of there; it'll be fairly evil.

 

Much obliged, y'all!

 

With that bit more detail, I'm definitely leaning towards it being an Unknown (Puzzle) cache.

 

A Multi-cache, from my perspective, doesn't get all that involved. It would be a "go here, get some more coords, go there, get more coords, find the final" sort of thing.

 

Having to solve "field puzzles" and get an object takes it just that much past a regular multicache, and into "Puzzle" territory.

 

Just my two cents. Your reviewer's opinion will count for a lot more.

 

 

B.

[knowschad]

I'd say it is a multicache with an offset 2nd stage. This is the sort of hybrid cache that is hard to pin down. It is a multi, for sure, but is listing it as a multi going to be the most helpful to finders, or would listing it as a mystery be the most useful? I think I'd opt for mystery, but its a toss-up.

[+Too Tall John]

Put a stamp and pad in the final and call it a Letterbox Hybrid.

[Pup Patrol]

Put a stamp and pad in the final and call it a Letterbox Hybrid.

 

 

 

 

B.

[+Z3ROIN]

(not difficult ones, the answers can be found easily enough, are numeric and aren't at allambivalent.)

 

do you mean ambiguous?!

 

I would say it's a multi.

[+Z3ROIN]

Huh... very good points; I'm thinking that you're both right, it's either a Multi or a Puzzle... and I think I'll go with a Puzzle classification. The answers to the questions will be necessary to open the container that holds the cache, and the tool'll be necessary to remove the things that block reaching the cache *and* to fish it out of there; it'll be fairly evil.

 

Much obliged, y'all!

 

With that bit more detail, I'm definitely leaning towards it being an Unknown (Puzzle) cache.

 

A Multi-cache, from my perspective, doesn't get all that involved. It would be a "go here, get some more coords, go there, get more coords, find the final" sort of thing.

 

Having to solve "field puzzles" and get an object takes it just that much past a regular multicache, and into "Puzzle" territory.

 

Just my two cents. Your reviewer's opinion will count for a lot more.

 

 

B.

 

IMO it's not a "field puzzle", the answering questions bit was done from the listing.

 

You know those offsets where you have to get some co-ords off a plaque or whatever? I've seen those listed as plain old multis many times and they have more than a "field" element than this for sure.

[+niraD]

FWIW, I've found multi-caches where the final was closer than 10 feet from the first stage. And if the final really is "ten feet due north [...] behind the tree with the Geocaching symbol", then I'd expect a lot of people to find the final before finding the first stage.

 

Around here, there's a puzzle cache that involves finding both the cache and the tool (hidden separately, but at the same coordinates) required to retrieve/replace the cache.

 

I don't think you'd be wrong to list your cache as a mystery/puzzle cache. On the other hand, if the tool is in the first stage, along with instructions explaining where and how to use it, then that seems straight-forward enough for a multi-cache, too.

[+ysabet]

**nods** It could really fall either way, I think. Lots of good points, guys... I really appreciate the input.

[Pup Patrol]

Huh... very good points; I'm thinking that you're both right, it's either a Multi or a Puzzle... and I think I'll go with a Puzzle classification. The answers to the questions will be necessary to open the container that holds the cache, and the tool'll be necessary to remove the things that block reaching the cache *and* to fish it out of there; it'll be fairly evil.

 

Much obliged, y'all!

 

With that bit more detail, I'm definitely leaning towards it being an Unknown (Puzzle) cache.

 

A Multi-cache, from my perspective, doesn't get all that involved. It would be a "go here, get some more coords, go there, get more coords, find the final" sort of thing.

 

Having to solve "field puzzles" and get an object takes it just that much past a regular multicache, and into "Puzzle" territory.

 

Just my two cents. Your reviewer's opinion will count for a lot more.

 

 

B.

 

IMO it's not a "field puzzle", the answering questions bit was done from the listing.

 

You know those offsets where you have to get some co-ords off a plaque or whatever? I've seen those listed as plain old multis many times and they have more than a "field" element than this for sure.

 

Oh, I love offset caches (bearing, direction) and want to place one.

 

It was the "need a tool" part that made me think "puzzle".

 

I guess if it's written on the cache page that you will need a tool, then it will fly as a multi, too.

 

Cache name should be "Either/Or/Undecided".

 

 

B.

[+Too Tall John]

Put a stamp and pad in the final and call it a Letterbox Hybrid.

Have you ever made a smart remark then realized it was truer than you meant?

 

Is there a theme for the cache that might translate into a LB stamp? If it's simple enough, I might even be able to help with the carving...

[+jellis]

FWIW, I've found multi-caches where the final was closer than 10 feet from the first stage. And if the final really is "ten feet due north [...] behind the tree with the Geocaching symbol", then I'd expect a lot of people to find the final before finding the first stage.

 

Around here, there's a puzzle cache that involves finding both the cache and the tool (hidden separately, but at the same coordinates) required to retrieve/replace the cache.

 

I don't think you'd be wrong to list your cache as a mystery/puzzle cache. On the other hand, if the tool is in the first stage, along with instructions explaining where and how to use it, then that seems straight-forward enough for a multi-cache, too.

And there is one in the South Bay that is listed as a Traditional when it shouldn't be. You go to the coords and there is a box with a lock. Then you have to do a math problem and try to find the key. That is not a Traditional to me.

Edited April 28, 2012 by jellis

[+niraD]

And there is one in the South Bay that is listed as a Traditional when it shouldn't be. You go to the coords and there is a box with a lock. Then you have to do a math problem and try to find the key. That is not a Traditional to me.

Is it an older cache? I know of an older "traditional" cache that is really a clever offset cache, but it has essentially been grandfathered. The guidelines and the volunteer reviewers' interpretations of those guidelines have changed over the years.

[+palmetto]

Hello ysabet - from what you've said so far, it seems that this could be either a Mystery or a Multi. One way to decide is whether your expectation is that the cache seeker can start and finish your cache in the field without needing to leave and do some research (ie, go home and find answers to questions, this assuming they're not smartphone enabled to Google answers in the field).

 

In the US, many cachers will object to the slightest variation of a Multicache beyond, find container, get coords go on to next step. If they have to read, or use a bit of brain power, they want that to go out as Mystery.

 

Re the "one .. that is listed as a Traditional when it shouldn't be. You go to the coords and there is a box with a lock. Then you have to do a math problem and try to find the key. That is not a Traditional to me. "

 

Is the key within range of the coords where the box is? then it is a Traditional, ie, cache at coords.

There's nothing in the Tradition cache guideline that guarantees that you don't have to read the description, or perhaps do a bit of work on site. Ideally, the cache owner has figured this into the difficulty rating, and perhaps added the Field Puzzle attribute. If the key is some distance away, now you've gotten into a staged cache.

[+duncanhoyle]

Re the "one .. that is listed as a Traditional when it shouldn't be. You go to the coords and there is a box with a lock. Then you have to do a math problem and try to find the key. That is not a Traditional to me. "

 

I just queried something with a local reviewer about a cache that had the container at the stated coordinates but you had to solve a physical puzzle or some other task once you got there. The response said that there was a lot of discussion amongst the global reviewer community at the moment about the difference between unknown/multi/traditional caches. He said that...

 

if the cache is at the published coordinates but involves some sort of puzzle element to open it then it's a traditional with the Field Puzzle Attribute.

If a puzzle has to be solved in order to derive the location of the cahe then it's an Unkown.

 

This matches what's happening with caches round here that have recently been published.

[+LightHouseSeekers]

IMHO sounds like a puzzle cache as you must have a solution in hand before going in the field as I don't believe you can call it a multi/puzzle or puzzle/multi. Calling it a multi may lead people to think they can continue directly from the 1st stage.

[+JL_HSTRE]

I would list it as a Mystery/Unknown.

[+Delta68]

 

if the cache is at the published coordinates but involves some sort of puzzle element to open it then it's a traditional with the Field Puzzle Attribute.

If a puzzle has to be solved in order to derive the location of the cahe then it's an Unkown.

 

This matches what's happening with caches round here that have recently been published.

 

Have a look at this one GC3ANDR

It's listed as a Trad with field puzzle but the 'puzzle' part is having to visit several other caches in the series first

 

It's got a combination lock on it and the parts of the code are in other caches even though there is no mention of this anywhere

 

How can this NOT be a Puzzle?

 

Mark