What constitutes a 'found' cache?

[+The A-Team]

So can we get past that and focus on what is fundamentally wrong with me providing a "non-whiny" warning note so it is available to anyone w/o access to the 'extras' that are available online?

First off, if they can see your warning note, then they CAN see the "extras". Therefore, it's redundant.

 

For some reason you choose to only respond to portions of what I've been written and ignore anything that you don't have a valid response to. Let's try something else. Here is a quote from another poster who has stated what I've already said:

(it's easy to miss the attributes - most paperless GPS units don't list them, apps hide them, but they do come in very handy when creating a PQ so it's great to see the CO use them).

Understand now? It is NOT redundant because the extras are not available to someone in the field using one of those devices.

I didn't respond to other portions of your post because I didn't see any reason to. It's clear to me now that you consider "extras" to be attributes. As has been pointed out many times in this thread, there are many other parts of the cache that imply a tree climb, including the name, description, and past logs. You have confirmed you have access to all of these, but chose not to use them. As a consequence of that choice, you were surprised by what you encountered when you arrived. That's not the owner's fault and he shouldn't be punished for it by having such a note posted on his cache.

 

This will be my last reply on this topic. Thanks for the enlightening experience.

That's probably for the best. This topic has just been running in circles for a while now.

Move along folks, nothing to see here!

[cezanne]

[*]Expecting that an accurate terrain rating was available or at least some indication that the find wasn't going to involve much more than reaching up into the low branches of the tree.

 

Expecting that a T=3* cache with parking close by would be reachable that way was kind of naive I'd say.

As the snow cover is regarded, often terrain ratings increase in Winter time when there is snow and ice - then even a 1* T terrain

can become much harder to cope with, but this is obvious and does not to be mentioned in the cache description.

 

Due my physical limits I need to be careful when selecting caches and in Winter time I start to be warned already at the T=2* level.

 

Cezanne

[+dprovan]

Rather than focus on one item from the rating system, I prefer to look at the general description of the terrain ratings:

 

3 - Not suitable for small children. The average adult or older child should be OK depending on physical condition.

 

4 - Experienced outdoor enthusiasts only.

 

I hardly think climbing that distance into a tree requires the experience of an outdoor enthusiast. Most kids do it for fun and they have no real outdoor experience at all.

I consider a small child "special equipment" in this case, so it should be T5.

 

Seriously, in my area, climbing a tree is normally rated T3, and even T4 if it's a serious climb beyond going up a kiddie tree. In my opinion, this is one of those places where modern suburban caching has collided with the old back country standards, and while the official standards have not changed, there's been a reasonable change in practice to accommodate the new issues. Unfortunately, this does dilute caches with truly high terrain issues, but since the vast majority of caching is no longer done in places where there are cliffs to scale, I have a hard time worrying about it.

[+bflentje]

No signature in log is no find in my book. You would have been a lot better off just logging the find without the commentary. Next time don't admit to not signing the log. Very few people audit their logs. But don't lie on my caches, I always audit the higher star caches during a maintenance run.

 

Having said that, I've brought a ladder to GZ on more than several occasions. Either that, or a reaching tool.

[+dprovan]

By the way, about the original topic: while some mistakes were made and some lessons learned, I think the log entry in question is a fine addition to that cache. I hope the CO takes it lightly and wears it as a badge of honor. Were I him, I might be tempted to post a note to acknowledge and confirm the OP's log entry. The log entry might be a little snarky, but by all accounts, it is accurate.

[+GeoBain]

Folks, at this point it is between the CO and the OP. SteveSquirrel has opted to let the OP's post remain on the listing which is his prerogative. As long as those 2 have come to some kind of agreement, it's probably best for the rest of us to drop it.

 

This will be my last reply on this topic.

 

DubbleG, if you do not plan to participate in your thread any longer, you do have the option to have the mods close it. Just click the report button at the bottom left of your post.

 

You can also let it remain open for others to continue the conversation if you want.

[+ArcherDragoon]

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Having said that, I've brought a ladder to GZ on more than several occasions. Either that, or a reaching tool.

Along those similar lines...I have had other geocachers stand on my shoulders in order to reach a cache when we didn't have a ladder...

[+baloo&bd]

 

Having said that, I've brought a ladder to GZ on more than several occasions. Either that, or a reaching tool.

Along those similar lines...I have had other geocachers stand on my shoulders in order to reach a cache when we didn't have a ladder...

 

We've done this in the field more than once;

 

Edited January 25, 2012 by baloo&bd

[+Harry Dolphin]

Folks, at this point it is between the CO and the OP. SteveSquirrel has opted to let the OP's post remain on the listing which is his prerogative. As long as those 2 have come to some kind of agreement, it's probably best for the rest of us to drop it.

 

Naw. He came in here whining and pouting because the CO deleted his bogus find. Continued whining all through the conversations here. No one agree with him, so he took his baseball, and went home. I think this is a fine example of entitlement! Plus a great example of why honey will attract more flies than vinegar.

None of the tree climbing caches that I've attempted said they were in trees. That's part of the challenge! Find it! Unless, of course, you expect everything to be handed to you on a silver platter.

One of the best entitement threads I've seen in a while. Whine, pout. Whine some more. Then stomp off.

Did he learn anything here? I don't think so.

[+baloo&bd]

Folks, at this point it is between the CO and the OP. SteveSquirrel has opted to let the OP's post remain on the listing which is his prerogative. As long as those 2 have come to some kind of agreement, it's probably best for the rest of us to drop it.

 

Naw. He came in here whining and pouting because the CO deleted his bogus find. Continued whining all through the conversations here. No one agree with him, so he took his baseball, and went home. I think this is a fine example of entitlement! Plus a great example of why honey will attract more flies than vinegar.

None of the tree climbing caches that I've attempted said they were in trees. That's part of the challenge! Find it! Unless, of course, you expect everything to be handed to you on a silver platter.

One of the best entitlement threads I've seen in a while. Whine, pout. Whine some more. Then stomp off.

Did he learn anything here? I don't think so.

 

+1. It happens time and again, a new user (minority, not all) starts and wants the game change so that they expend as little effort as possible for their "reward" because that is what they have come to view as their right in the world for whatever reason. When they find that there are some in the world that adhere to guidelines or rules as well as wanting to put in an effort for the recognition and satisfaction, they start whiningcomplaining in the forum looking for someone to validate their position.

 

Closing a thread simply because others not only politely tried to help repeatedly is wrong. The CO has chosen to let the immature note remain on his cache, the OP can expect no more. None of the discussion has been inappropriate.

[+BlueDeuce]

Stop viewing the find log as a score.

 

I would agree with that when logging a find would include that they didn't find it.

[diggingest_dogg616]

I agree with the "if you didn't sign, you didn't find" sentiment.

 

There are a lot of caches out there that you could "find" and not sign the sign the log. You don't have to have that find. You won't die. If you have to post something, post a note. "I saw the container but couldn't get to it". Go back another day or just leave it alone.

 

I haven't had to anything really extreme to get a cache yet. There was one so far I couldn't couldn't just reach over and snag. It was on this piece of concrete that was like, four feet tall at least. It was tall enough that I had to put my back to it and put my hands on the surface and hop up, putting one of my feet on the vertical bit to try and give me more "oomph" and then I was sitting on the concrete So I rolled over and got the cache and then hopped down in reverse of how I got up (there were large rocks everywhere so it was all too easy to turn an ankle if you just leapt off ) I thought it was kinda fun

 

I went out this past weekend and I knew where a cache was based on the gallery (scandalous! ). The hill was covered with snow and pretty steep. I'm gonna go back when it's not covered with snow, or otherwise wet and/or frozen

 

Really, if you don't actually get to the cache, you're kind of cheating yourself if you log it. Some of things are part of the experience of getting it. The cache up a tree that you didn't get to but "found" is a lame story compared to actually climbing the tree!

[Moun10Bike]

Closing this thread at the request of the OP.