Multi-caches, definition...

[+family brown]

I've hidden one multi, which is proving troublesome but findable, so I'm persevering and leaving it for now.

 

However, I have an idea for another but not sure as to how to do it.

 

Almost all the multi's I've come across are actually offsets and where there is a trail or series, the "bonus" is often listed as an unknown with clues in the other caches.

 

I have in mind one where there are physical containers, the first giving a hint to the position of the next one, then the next and so on (looking at 4, maybe 5, stages). In that instance, would each need to be listed as a seperate traditional? That has the advantage of a higher number of smileys but then would the last one actually be a multi?

 

Thanks for any advice/comments/leg-pulling

 

Confused of Hove

 

PS at least one of the caches in the series is going to be a puzzle, which should be work-outable in the field.

Edited September 8, 2011 by family brown

[Pup Patrol]

I've hidden one multi, which is proving troublesome but findable, so I'm persevering and leaving it for now.

 

However, I have an idea for another but not sure as to how to do it.

 

Almost all the multi's I've come across are actually offsets and where there is a trail or series, the "bonus" is often listed as an unknown with clues in the other caches.

The ones I've seen like that have been individual traditionals with coords to a final "bonus" cache, which was listed as an "?" Unknown.

 

The multi-caches I've seen, for the most part, have the coords to the next stage in each container, which all lead you to a final container that has the log to sign.

 

There are caches we've found that are listed as "?" Unknowns because there are instructions for projecting a waypoint and that is where the cache is located.

 

I have in mind one where there are physical containers, the first giving a hint to the position of the next one, then the next and so on (looking at 4, maybe 5, stages). In that instance, would each need to be listed as a seperate traditional? That has the advantage of a higher number of smileys but then would the last one actually be a multi?

 

That's what I've seen as a multi-cache. It would be one GC code, therefore only one smiley, for those who play the game that way.

 

A multi-cache involves more than one set of coordinates. So, no, your final would not be a multi-cache. It would be another traditional, just like the others, if that's how you set them out.

 

PS at least one of the caches in the series is going to be a puzzle, which should be work-outable in the field.

If it's a waypoint located on a trail sign, or some such, then it could still be a stage in a multi-cache.

 

Here's the basic outline of the definitions of the cache types:

http://www.geocaching.com/about/cache_types.aspx

 

You could always communicate with your reviewer beforehand and see what he/she says about what type your specific cache idea should be listed as.

[+NattyBooshka]

 

I have in mind one where there are physical containers, the first giving a hint to the position of the next one, then the next and so on (looking at 4, maybe 5, stages). In that instance, would each need to be listed as a seperate traditional? That has the advantage of a higher number of smileys but then would the last one actually be a multi?

 

That's a multi in the true sense of the name!

 

The only thing is they're not as popular as the singles

 

If listed as traditionals, IMO the final one is also a traditional... though some list them as puzzles.

Edited September 8, 2011 by NattyBooshka

[+Pharisee]

Not sure this will help, but I have a series of 8 caches around Chicksands. The first is listed as a "Traditional" as the quoted co-ords are for the actual cache. The remaining seven in the series are listed as "Multi's" as the quoted co-ords are for a convenient parking place.

The first cache contains the co-ordinates of the second in the series, the second contains the co-ordinates of the third and so on. You have to find the caches sequentially to complete the series. Eight caches... eight smilies; one trad and 7 multis.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Pharisee

[Pup Patrol]

Not sure this will help, but I have a series of 8 caches around Chicksands. The first is listed as a "Traditional" as the quoted co-ords are for the actual cache. The remaining seven in the series are listed as "Multi's" as the quoted co-ords are for a convenient parking place.

The first cache contains the co-ordinates of the second in the series, the second contains the co-ordinates of the third and so on. You have to find the caches sequentially to complete the series. Eight caches... eight smilies; one trad and 7 multis.

 

They play the game differently in your area than they do in mine.

 

They would all be "traditionals", stand-alone caches with no stages to follow to find the final. The final would, at the very least, be an "Unknown" as you need the coords from other caches to find it. It definitely wouldn't be a "multi".

 

See the Groundspeak basic definition of types of caches that I've posted up above.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Pup Patrol

[Pup Patrol]

Pharisee, your "Back to Basics" series is what I mean of traditional (stand-alone) caches that contain coords for the bonus cache, which is listed as an "?" Unknown:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=7887b740-dcbc-4db0-ae11-599290599e90

 

None of them are multi-caches.

[+Pharisee]

Pharisee, your "Back to Basics" series is what I mean of traditional (stand-alone) caches that contain coords for the bonus cache, which is listed as an "?" Unknown:

 

http://www.geocachin...11-599290599e90

 

None of them are multi-caches.

 

Absolutely correct but I wasn't referring to my Back to Basics series in my earlier post.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Pharisee

[+Pharisee]

Not sure this will help, but I have a series of 8 caches around Chicksands. The first is listed as a "Traditional" as the quoted co-ords are for the actual cache. The remaining seven in the series are listed as "Multi's" as the quoted co-ords are for a convenient parking place.

The first cache contains the co-ordinates of the second in the series, the second contains the co-ordinates of the third and so on. You have to find the caches sequentially to complete the series. Eight caches... eight smilies; one trad and 7 multis.

 

They play the game differently in your area than they do in mine.

 

They would all be "traditionals", stand-alone caches with no stages to follow to find the final. The final would, at the very least, be an "Unknown" as you need the coords from other caches to find it. It definitely wouldn't be a "multi".

 

See the Groundspeak basic definition of types of caches that I've posted up above.

 

Sorry to disagree but the guidelines say that a "Traditional" cache has the actual cache co-ordinates quoted at the top of the cache page. If the quoted co-ordinates are for a parking place and the actual cache co-ordinates are obtained from elsewhere (without a puzzle being involved) then it becomes a multi.

[+Simply Paul]

Not sure this will help, but I have a series of 8 caches around Chicksands. The first is listed as a "Traditional" as the quoted co-ords are for the actual cache. The remaining seven in the series are listed as "Multi's" as the quoted co-ords are for a convenient parking place.

The first cache contains the co-ordinates of the second in the series, the second contains the co-ordinates of the third and so on. You have to find the caches sequentially to complete the series. Eight caches... eight smilies; one trad and 7 multis.

They play the game differently in your area than they do in mine.

 

They would all be "traditionals", stand-alone caches with no stages to follow to find the final. The final would, at the very least, be an "Unknown" as you need the coords from other caches to find it. It definitely wouldn't be a "multi".

 

See the Groundspeak basic definition of types of caches that I've posted up above.

You're both wrong!

 

The first one is a Trad - it's at the given co-ords. The rest should be listed as puzzles as you have to find at least one other loggable cache to locate it/them. They are not self-contained caches so should not be listed as multis. The following is the interpretation which the reviewers now take, generally, as I understand it:

 

Trad. At the given co-ords. May lead on to other caches, but has its own GC number and log book. If there's much more to it than finding a box at the co-ords - such as it's a locked box and you need to bring a key TB with you, or you may only log it if you hop to the location (an ALR - Additional Logging Requirement) - then it should be a puzzle/unknown/other.

 

Multi. A self-contained cache listing which can be found with the cache page and a GPS. Might be a simple off-set (A->B ) or a series of locations to visit (A->B->C...) to either find physical cache stages (not loggable in their own right) or answer virtual questions to gather info and discover the final co-ords.

 

Puzzle/Unknown/Other. Everything else

 

There are many, many caches listed as multis which are actually virtuals (Sherlock Holmes series, London, for example), multis listed as trads ("The given co-ords are for parking. You'll find the box at N51 23.456 W002 34.567...") and puzzles listed as multis. It's because the interpretation of what's what has evolved over the years, along with caching itself. There should be a 'What's my cache?' Flow Chart online somewhere, along with the 'How Should I Rate Difficulty & Terrain?' info.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Simply Paul

[Pup Patrol]

Sorry to disagree but the guidelines say that a "Traditional" cache has the actual cache co-ordinates quoted at the top of the cache page. If the quoted co-ordinates are for a parking place and the actual cache co-ordinates are obtained from elsewhere (without a puzzle being involved) then it becomes a multi.

 

I'm getting confused with all the permutations!

 

So I'm going to focus on this last quoted bit.

 

A traditional can have separate waypoints for parking, trail head, etc. These would be different than the coordinates for the cache location. If there is one set of coordinates for the cache location, and those are posted on the cache page, it's a "traditional", not a multi-cache.

 

The coords for the parking or trail head would be a different icon than for the cache. They would be "additional waypoints" on the cache page.

 

If the coords at the top of the page are for a parking area, for example, then somewhere in the cache page has to be a way to find out the coordinates for the cache location. That becomes a "?" Unknown. The instructions for finding out the cache coordinates could involve projecting a waypoint, or using the numbers from a sign to discern the cache's coordinates, for example.

 

Like I said, this is what I've seen in my area. In the end, it's up to your (the royal "your") local reviewer to decide the type of cache that is being submitted.

[Pup Patrol]

There should be a 'What's my cache?' Flow Chart online somewhere,

That's a neat idea.

 

along with the 'How Should I Rate Difficulty & Terrain?' info.

When you start to fill out the cache submission page, you get to the D/T area and there's a link to the D/T rating system that Groundspeak currently uses:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/hide/rate.aspx

[+family brown]

Simply Paul, thank you, illuminating.

 

Everyone else, glad it's not just me

[+Pharisee]

Not sure this will help, but I have a series of 8 caches around Chicksands. The first is listed as a "Traditional" as the quoted co-ords are for the actual cache. The remaining seven in the series are listed as "Multi's" as the quoted co-ords are for a convenient parking place.

The first cache contains the co-ordinates of the second in the series, the second contains the co-ordinates of the third and so on. You have to find the caches sequentially to complete the series. Eight caches... eight smilies; one trad and 7 multis.

They play the game differently in your area than they do in mine.

 

They would all be "traditionals", stand-alone caches with no stages to follow to find the final. The final would, at the very least, be an "Unknown" as you need the coords from other caches to find it. It definitely wouldn't be a "multi".

 

See the Groundspeak basic definition of types of caches that I've posted up above.

You're both wrong!

 

The first one is a Trad - it's at the given co-ords. The rest should be listed as puzzles as you have to find at least one other loggable cache to locate it/them. They are not self-contained caches so should not be listed as multis. The following is the interpretation which the reviewers now take, generally, as I understand it:

 

Trad. At the given co-ords. May lead on to other caches, but has its own GC number and log book. If there's much more to it than finding a box at the co-ords - such as it's a locked box and you need to bring a key TB with you, or you may only log it if you hop to the location (an ALR - Additional Logging Requirement) - then it should be a puzzle/unknown/other.

 

Multi. A self-contained cache listing which can be found with the cache page and a GPS. Might be a simple off-set (A->B ) or a series of locations to visit (A->B->C...) to either find physical cache stages (not loggable in their own right) or answer virtual questions to gather info and discover the final co-ords.

 

Puzzle/Unknown/Other. Everything else

 

There are many, many caches listed as multis which are actually virtuals (Sherlock Holmes series, London, for example), multis listed as trads ("The given co-ords are for parking. You'll find the box at N51 23.456 W002 34.567...") and puzzles listed as multis. It's because the interpretation of what's what has evolved over the years, along with caching itself. There should be a 'What's my cache?' Flow Chart online somewhere, along with the 'How Should I Rate Difficulty & Terrain?' info.

 

The Reviewer seemed to think they were multis when they published them.... Who am I to argue?

[+Delta68]

The Reviewer seemed to think they were multis when they published them.... Who am I to argue?

 

The rules were clarified/tightened up a couple of years ago

 

The reviewers still do get it wrong (or should I say let incorrect cache types slip though). Even fairly recently I've seen caches which are obviously Offset/Multis listed as Puzzle/Unknown and vice versa

 

Mark

[+redsox_mark]

There are some gray areas, and there is inconsistency as to how the cache types are listed. I've seen what looks like a straightfoward multi listed as puzzle/unknown, and I've seen caches which require solving of a puzzle to get the starting coordinates listed as a multi.

 

I had not seen any listed like the Chicksands series until now. As each of the "multis" in that series require you to find a separate, distinct cache (and so go to another cache page for that) I don't think multi is "correct"; though of course a reviewer did some years ago.

 

I did have the thought that they would be OK as multis if the waypoint of the "dependent" cache was listed.. i.e. if there is Trad cache A and Multi B, and the coordinates of A are listed as a waypoint on B. Then B is "self-contained". But of course this is not allowed, as then caches A and B would have a physical stage at the same coordinates.

 

Mark

Edited September 9, 2011 by redsox_mark

[+HouseOfDragons]

 

I have in mind one where there are physical containers, the first giving a hint to the position of the next one, then the next and so on (looking at 4, maybe 5, stages). In that instance, would each need to be listed as a seperate traditional? That has the advantage of a higher number of smileys but then would the last one actually be a multi?

 

 

I had one similar to this. In the end I relisted each of the cache stages (waypoints) as individual logable caches leading to a bonus cache (the original final one). As each of the stages had to be found and had to be the 528ft apart, I couldn't see why they should be be listed as individual caches given the effort in finding them. Once I had done it, the whole set got far more visits.

 

I do like the multis where you have to go from A to B via X, Y and Z to find information but I do kind of think that ones where you have to find an actual box are best listed as individual caches with a bonus. It's all about personal preference though.

[+redsox_mark]

I do like the multis where you have to go from A to B via X, Y and Z to find information but I do kind of think that ones where you have to find an actual box are best listed as individual caches with a bonus. It's all about personal preference though.

 

My preference depends on the cache(s) involved. I enjoy multis which have a strong theme and a "story", and especially ones where you don't know how many stages there are. That makes it a bit more of a challenge/adventure (especially if there is a field puzzle element), and with these it feels right to just get the one smiley at the end of the adventure. The stages can be a combination of physical and non-physical stages. If on the other hand it is a ring of 10 "ordinary" cache boxes, I would prefer 9 Trads and a Bonus v.s. a multi with 9 physical stages and a final cache.

[+Happy Humphrey]

The point is, that a multi is always standalone. So you can go to the coordinates and then continue following clues until you find the final container. There's no need to know about any other cache, or obtain any information except what you're led to along the way.

 

If it's a Mystery cache, you might have to find another cache first to give you the coordinates, or solve a puzzle, or perform a task of some sort. But you can't expect simply to go to the dummy coordinates and find the information that will lead you to the final cache.

 

Obviously there's a bit of a grey area between the two but it's not a very big grey area. You could set up a multi, for instance, where the cache location is deduced by reading an inscription at the cache coordinates which contains hidden numbers. If they are Roman numerals, the cache could be considered a multi as the numbers are fairly obvious. But if you have to decipher them using an obscure system, perhaps it's a mystery cache.

[GeekKitty]

I've hidden one multi, which is proving troublesome but findable, so I'm persevering and leaving it for now.

 

However, I have an idea for another but not sure as to how to do it.

 

Almost all the multi's I've come across are actually offsets and where there is a trail or series, the "bonus" is often listed as an unknown with clues in the other caches.

 

 

This is my preferred form of "multi-cache" I find it annoying when you goto do a multicache, that goes through 5-6 hops, only to find that you get to hop 5, and can't find it cos it's been muggled. It takes a lot of the fun out of it, where as with a series + bonus, you visit all the same places you otherwise would, you get the nice walk/ride/drive/swim, and even if you don't find one cache, and can't find the bonus, you still get a good afternoons caching. My favourite example of this type of series is in Sandwich, Kent. I had great fun doing this series, but couldn't find two of the stages, but was still able to find the bonus, by brute forcing the possible combinations of missing digits.

 

 

I have in mind one where there are physical containers, the first giving a hint to the position of the next one, then the next and so on (looking at 4, maybe 5, stages). In that instance, would each need to be listed as a seperate traditional? That has the advantage of a higher number of smileys but then would the last one actually be a multi?

 

I would suggest you would be better off with a Series+bonus as detailed above, it is more likely to get people to do it, less of an issue if bits go missing, and IMHO, more fun.

 

Where a Multicache comes in to me, is when you goto position X, and read the date off the shop sign, then across to point Y, and read a number off a notice board, and then onto Z where you get the number of birds on the coat of arms, and then plug it all together and get some coordinates, where you find a cache. A good example of this is "Pilgrims Cache" in Canterbury, a brilliant way of exploring the City and seeing more than you would as a typical tourist. This to me is a Multicache.

 

This all said, remember, ask 10 geocachers what a multi is/should be, you will get 12 answers...

 

Just my 2p.

 

J

 

PS at least one of the caches in the series is going to be a puzzle, which should be work-outable in the field.

[+Simply Paul]

There should be a 'What's my cache?' Flow Chart online somewhere,

That's a neat idea.

One only needs to ask, and as if by magic...